In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

People complain RG is so bad, but yet still most channels are full even as we speak.

 

its harder to get a pap channel than a rg ch only peak hours perhaps

 

To your point I think this is where Original Maple did excel. And this is where Royals is at a very awkward point. Traditional Maple Would churn through new players and the best way to make them happy was with new exciting lower end content Which is why so much of 2006-2009 was adding more and more PQs. I feel like Anniversary event is a perfect example of this. Newer players can do Cake for expensive scrolls, they can get 1.3x Exp and get coins for some chairs and such that sell well. It let's them have a good catch up, while still being something that High End players can be in to min/max and get a 'deal' on their WS/CS/Perf Gear Scrolls.

It's also why I argue that PQs need to be buffed even more. Push players there, push players to making more friends, etc. Let the KPQ>LPQ>OPQ>PPQ>EPQ train be a great way to get characters to 4th job and pick up some decent gear along the way that makes them less needing to wash. (Hell, this gives me an idea for the feedback thread). The argument I always hear against this is it'll hurt prices for what's already out there, these shakeups need to happen.

When an economy gets inflated, what is needed are money sinks. Thinks that entice players to get the Mesos back out of the economy. Historically this has been Chair Gacha. I mean since there's less politics involved we basically need a way to redistribute wealth xD

Figure out a way to give the average player something that the rich want from them that isn't tied to 'having a strong or many characters' and well..... dang that's not easy to design.

Edit: Suggesting that we add these potions to Token of Teamwork: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/add...-pots-from-rg-into-tokens-of-teamwork.233697/

 

I never said that the change was intended to benefit 'elite' players (poor terminology btw, I was simply paraphrasing another commenter), merely that the changes were made with them in mind as they were the ones who were exploiting RG by farming bees on multiple characters and causing rampant inflation, thus forcing repeated nerfs that hurt the rest of the playerbase.
Apart from that small misunderstanding, everything you said in your post is exactly correct. My point is that this change arguably hurts the newer/less funded players more by removing one of the few viable income sources (in the case of non-mages) available to them. H4xDefender articulated this perfectly, one of the best posts I've read here.

I was doing that a bit to avoid the stun (as in CWK) until I realized how easy it was to simply dodge it. So I went on another run today (184 Drk now) with the intention of minimizing pot consumption, and ended up using 754 cheeses, down from 946. About a 24% reduction in melting cheeses, though not significant enough to drastically alter the results of my earlier estimation.

In this particular run I was only able to net 18 bees (while using appo and 8 stoppers), but I did get 6k nx and 30 totems. Everything considered, this resulted in an estimated gain of ~103.7m for a 40 min run, or ~155.5m/hr. However, keep in mind that the estimate of 800k/totem that I'm using for these calculations may actually be on the higher side. As stated by Rielle here, the value of totems may be closer to ~700k, thus lowering my estimates to 91.7m, or 137.5m/hr. Compare that to my recent Gold tooth farming session, while simultaneously farming stoppers on my Bishop. In 40 minutes I netted 28 gold teeth, 877 orbis etc, 3 steel ores, 2 dex crystal ores, and ~5.8m from NPC/meso drops. At the same time, my Bishop farmed 20 stoppers and ~3.5m from NPC/meso drops, bringing my estimated total for 40 minutes of farming to 92.9m, or 139.5m/hr. This means that I get a higher ROI from simple 2-client mage farming than I do running Rose Garden on a Lvl 18x character (even with a 6k NX drop). I'm sure I could do better as well, as don't need to be particularly focused at all when mage farming unlike RG, which for me requires 100% focus due to the pressure of attempting to reach the bee cap within the given time constraint. I agree with H4xDefender that increasing the time limit for the bonus would make RG less stressful to run for those who struggle to reach the bee cap, as well as decrease the inequality between the classes.

 

• Change Bee powder exchange format to enter a number of powders to exchange to Totem OR add option to exchange 1 powder to 5x totems
• Heavily buff HP Vial to be slightly above rate of doing Reuel (i.e. 4 HP per Vial) | Mages will only get option for half HP of the Vial for Attackers (1~2 HP per Vial)
• Math out and buff MP Vial
• Buff ETC droprate for Stage 1/2
• Remove Top Center Bee spawn and position OR create a teleport on bottom center for Room 1 (Frozen Rose)
• Adjust left rope position on rightside platform for Room 3 (Garden Golem) so that you don't have moments where you're knocked off platform as Mage

Spoiler: ...

I'm thankful for the past Rose Garden iterations that allowed me to further my progress in Maple as it'd have taken me ~1 year of soulless leeching/mage farming

 

Is there any merit in adding an option to trade Golden Bees to Burning Energy?

sounds like a good option for those working on VL belts.

 

I think the general answer is just farm map 3, which gives you slower bees in exchange for BE, usually 100/run if you're capping bees.

And if that makes you unable to cap, then aren't you effectively just trading bees (however many you didn't get) for energy?

 

that map sucks just give us bees for energy kekw

 

Instructions unclear, now burning energy is in LHC Gacha.

Great job Kachizzy smh

 

Something i'm probably not seeing enough of, or at least being discussed, is the idea that different farms provide different types of stimulation when it comes to playing Royals. Rose Garden currently feels more punishing than it used to.

Farming zombie teeth vs. Farming RG are 2 very different ways to play Royals.

Maybe i'm part of a minority (i have access to multi-mage farm/endgame bossing/semi-afk farming/etc) but I prefer doing content like NT/RG/HT/insert somewhat profitable boss name here over doing Ulu 1 Quad Mage.

There are times when i'm in the mood to just sit down and mash mage farming or realistically more profitable forms of farming that may seem more "brainless". Ofc there is a barrier to entry with things like Quad Mage farming but the reality is that, for me, i'd rather be bossing with my friends.

If we're talking about ways to make the game more accessible to players (whether they are new or giga multi RG farmers), then a topic that needs to be discussed is Nerfing or Buffing fun and how to go about it not just the Meso value behind RG itself.

I'm personally against increasing the RG timer due to the notion that RG is solo content and for some people, especially pre-nerf bee RG, required to make expedited progress on your character. It pigeon holes newer players into longer RGs and takes away from their time to participate in other content like APQ/Daily Bosses. (Especially APQ, where although it can be a mega-chore, new friendships can be formed and you get to meet people.)

I used to do RGx6 daily to help fund myself and as of now only do it 2 times a day, if that, due to the drop rate fix (my BM/NL/Hero/DK/Bishop/Bucc all used to easily get 20 bees). Personally the bees for mesos vs totems didn't really impact my decision to prune my RG participation as much as the drop-rate fix did.

Referring back to the Teeth vs RG mesos comparison, why aren't we talking about the fact that RG progresses your character but mindlessly farming teeth doesn't in terms of leveling. (outside of grinding zombies at the appropriate level) Leveling is one of your cheapest and most powerful upgrades in the game and Rose Garden provides exp in spades.

If we're gonna buff Rose Garden then let us get in and out of their quicker so we can do more content with our friends or go about our lives.

-RG is at least more engaging than mindless farming in a sense. I'm sure plenty of daily RG slaves would disagree but you get to play your character and that's worth something.
-RG is a timesink however and finding ways to mitigate that to SOME extent while also making it more accessible to classes like BMs/NLs isn't a bad idea.
-RG may not be the most profitable thing to do in the game but it's mentally accessible from the standpoint that you can set a goal of logging in and doing it once a day, vs the uncapped time of farming teeth/mage farming/etc. Pap/Chao/Ephenia realistically isn't THAT profitable to do but people do it daily because it's an easy "chores" list to clean up and be done with it.
-Some of the balance changes around RG are predicated around reducing inflation and maybe in some part a reallocation in how wealth in Royals is acquired.

As stated above there is so much more nuance on how to balance content and the difficulties that come with that but the current state of RG (which candidly I don't believe is that bad for players like myself) is not as helpful as it could be for newer players breaking into the 170+ tier.

TLDR: Just increase bee spawn rate. And if the rewards for bees needs to be adjusted, so be it.
-Most giga RG farmers already get 20 bees consistently regardless of the drop rate fix. It just takes them a bit more time and the most likely effect that the drop rate fix had on them, was them cycling out characters that can't get 20 bees consistently such as BMs/Buccs?/NLs.
-Newer players aren't pigeon holed into 40 full mins in RG (to not even get 20 bees which can be infuriating) unless they are severely undergeared and get more time to do other content.
-It would likely reduce inflation on "green line" items such as taru/cs/ws/bwg (taru further reducing inflation on scg/fs) you're injecting more items into the game instead of raw mesos. The effects of this could be debated and what effect it would have on the ingame economy COULD be bad. I'm not sure.
-The giga-rg farmers that live there aren't going to stop doing RG but this would increase both the incentive and mitigate the feeling of "I'm pulling out my hair going on 5-7 min bee droughts" for both new and legacy players.
-Worst case scenario just revert it, if it breaks the balance. This is mildly said tongue-in-cheek but gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.

Giga TLDR: Just make RG more accessible to undergeared/underfunded lvl 170+s and allow the funded community the chance to get out of their quicker.

These are just my opinions and I am speaking from anecdotal experience. By no means is "Just increase bee spawn rate" as simple a fix as i'm making it seem.

But I definitely think that with the Drop Rate fix, maybe the bee spawn rate is a bit under-tuned in its current state.

AND STOP MAKING THE BEES OUTRUN ME ON MY MOUNT

 

Too long didn’t read.

I’m going to say no because then @H4xDefender won’t have to apple for 14 bees

Reposting my meme:


More serious note:

• Think its valid to consider increasing if not bee drop rate, etc stage 1/2 drop rate
• LHC gacha items are regulated by the economy so I don’t think letting warriors save 5mins/Ranged clear on gizer will impact the economy greatly

Reach Goal:

• Let King Castle Golem drop Dirty Magic Scroll

 

I think increasing the droprate for Stage 1/2 ETC will help people as well. I thought the ETC droprate was fine during the time of when we had the reactor droprate increase but it's very lacking now. Before the fix, it took me around ~4mins to complete 1/2 across my characters. Now, after the fix, it takes me ~5mins with some freak cases of it taking 7~8mins.... One time taking me 10minutes... For people who are not as godly as me, they might spend somewhere between 5~10mins just on the ETC in those stages. I think easing that part should give more time to everyone, especially the low end players or anyone playing on Ranged classes.

 

I don't disagree with this @xDarkomantis

 

Is it maybe an idea for also to exchange bees for another reward like some 60% ring scrolls? Since they are pretty hard to obtain in a higher amount. For example 10 bees per 60% str/dex/luk/int ring scroll.

 

It is recommended to continue catching bees even if you miss one and don't reach 20.

 

I think it would be nice that you also could choose for serveral 30% scrolls at exchange. For example spear, knuckle,wand and claw scrolls 30% to exchange for 5 bees each.

This scrolls mentioned above are populair but also pricey.

I think that then the prices would be more stable and then you can also get then not only from gacha etc, but also as reward in rose garden exchange.

 

Just to beat this dead horse further.

On a 187 Bucc with 48 cgs and a solid king cent. I just had a 13 minute bee drought during a bonus (got to bonus w/ 30 minutes left) and ended up with 14 bees. I'm not necessarily asking that etc rates be changed drastically. But maybe help mitigate these wild swings that can happen at RG that are just wildly tilting?

 

everyone complains when its - rng but nobody complains when they hit 3 ws’s in one stack of tickets.

I’m not sure what can be done to reduce high variance outside of a pity counter (don’t do that lol) besides just straight buffing drop rate of bees.

Shoutouts to @Tyloo who averages a ws every 12 stacks and his 20+ HT dry streak

 

I mean the variance is already there in terms of the gach itself. RNG doesn't self regulate but can go either way ofc.

Just buff etc drop rate XD

 

I think we can all agree on:

• Can we buff the etc drop rate

Areas to explore:

• Buff Totem/Energy drop from the boss now that the value of RG overall has decreased greatly?
• Or introduce a new drop item from King Castle Golem