In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

keeping them at a fixed 200k is not a solution, that's just what it is at the moment. I think HH and snipe (which have always been static damage) should have their cap increased regardless of the overall damage cap increase that's been proposed. I also think 500k might be a bit too much, but maybe 300k or reducing 1~2 seconds delay inbetween would be interesting since I don't think the scaling you talk about is possible with static damage, but % damage.

regarding what you've heard about heavily geared MM: — that issue only comes in for marksmen with VERY top w. attack gears, perfect weapon, lv. 200 and the constant use of apple/gelts. "heavily geared MM" is an absolute niche thing and that's only like 6 people in this server as much, and I'm not including myself. so realistically for marksmen, the use of snipe on our regular attacking combo is not such a DPS loss, it's actually our bread and butter, unless you make it to sweaty ass grounds, and even then you're most likely going to dish about double the damage using said gear with any other class (literally, any other class).

 

Maybe im getting it wrong, but hes not saying snipe and hammer will pass from deal 200 to 500k str8. He just said cap will be raised from 200 to 500k wich is different. I dont really rmber how snipe formula works, so ill just use paladins case. If your paladin hits consistently between 120-170k, thats 580% dmg with blast , HH deals 900% so, it will ideally deal between 187k to 265k dmg, but since rn the dmg is not visble and is capped we asume its always 199k. I assume he meant that snipe and hammer will need a rework to either buff or nerf their % or cast time, bcs staff think its gonna be to OP or too weak(idk wich one gonna be since trought the years ive heard some things that they considered OP are weak for me and the oposite). Personally , at least in HH case wich as you said *HAS* a fixed % dmg formula, i dont see as OP in any way, i even think it might be a little bit weak still since it takes 2 secs-ish to cast and has a 20 secs CD, but it will be an ok buff cs blast will be benefit as well, but thats just my opinion

 

Original HH doesnt has a fixed dmg, it has a formula.


Not really shure if the version of HH we use its fixed or not( I rmmber HH can show dmg or just the bar we see) but if cap is getting raised this is the version of HH that needs to be implemented

 

dang sorry, I didn't know about that, so take my comment oriented specifically towards snipe then!

 

only 3 words: Heroes need buff

 

Bet it'll happen someday

Holy shit. Finally! After years of bitchin it's now my time to shine. Everyone relax, let me cook.

Heaven's Hammer: So if y'all didn't know, HH doesn't do what its description says, as discussed here. With 500k damage cap Paladin will likely move to #1 single-target DPS for Warrior. Paladin is already great for bossing and mobbing, so let's be careful not to overpower HH.

• Reduce HP of mob types to 1 HP, or 300K damage if HP <300k. Why the increase? At its current state, HH is only really worth casting in large open maps with high mob density due to its long cast time. In bossing scenarios, it's not worth to HH with >4 targets as you can Blast 3.5 times in one HH cast. A 300k hit would still keep HH on par with an uncapped Paladin's blast at most bosses with 4+ targets.
• Lets make 2 HANDED BW USABLE! Just slightly increase the multiplier for 2H BW, this would make it comparable to 2H sword dps without making 1H BW too strong, as it will be the best Dps for paladin with no damage cap. By no means would 2h bw be the best due to its slow attack speed, but you will see some HUGE numbers and people get off on that shit.

Snipe: Lets move away from the 200k snipe and adapt a scaled % attack. In theory i would start at 1000% with 100% crit. The goal is to have a lvl 150 MM with 35 cgs and a decent xbow hit about 200k per snipe. This would keep MM's low level potency, and if they want to get 60 cgs and a perfect bow they aren't punished by a damage cap.

Also, let's get some more weapon options for xbows, such as the Raven xbow. Rework the badge exchange system to a trade system so it's not as painful and reliant on good Rng.

Edit: to be clear, HH IS SET TO 199,999 even at lvl 1. The only thing that changes is the cool down. The description is false

 

Oh I suppose another option for hammer is to make it cast faster - not decrease the CD, but actually change the animation time to cast faster so you miss fewer regular attacks when using it.

 

Just to be clear i didnt mean to say we'd make HH and snipe hit 500k if the new cap was 500k. Just asking what you'd suggest doing to them as in new fixed damage, if so how high or scaling or w.e

 

I've tested Heaven's Hammer (HH) quite a bit using a mule with only 41 ~ 174 range, and strongly believe that it deals a fixed min(mobHP - 1, 199999) damage to each target, with higher skill levels corresponding only to a decreased cooldown. (At level 1, the skill reportedly does 420% damage, yielding a max hit of 730 for this character, yet I am able to hit high HP mobs like Skelosaurus and Nest Golem down to 1 HP.)

Edit: Thanks @GunzGaming for confirming this above.

I think a very fair rebalance of HH, which preserves the essential mechanic of the skill (as noted above), would be to deal min(mobHP - 1, cap) damage to each mob, where "cap" is the new damage cap. The cooldown would have to be made to scale with the new damage cap, and that could be done in a way that either preserves the damage per minute of HH, or in a way that rebalances it if deemed necessary.

 

The problem with having HH deal new damage cap of 500k is that it will be abused, and im surprised it hasnt been already in its current state. On "the other server that shall not be named" this problem happened before. Everyone was making Paladin mules to spam HH at horntail. So it was nerfed to now deal much less damage to bosses vs. mobs.

If HH was doing 500k every 20s to all parts of HT, the new best way to HT would be to make multiple Paladin mules and spam HH. Why even get high attack gear to HT, just leech a bunch of paladins and sed mules to delete HT with HH spam.

BUT ONCE AGAIN, THE MAIN ISSUE WILL ALWAYS BE THAT MULES ARE ALLOWED IN BOSS RUNS. it essentially brakes the core mechanics of the game and allows abuse, thus making proper balancing of classes near impossible. But if mules weren't allowed in bosses, 500k HH would probably be fine.

So what is it royals. Yall wanna balance classes? I would start with disabling mules in bosses. Finally end the years of constant fuckery and overcomplicating a simple mushroom game. Mulestory or Mapleroyals. Pick one.

 

This is by far the best comment I've read. Disable mules from bosses and the game will have so much more sense and be more fun.

 

To maintain its current damage per minute, would be something like a 50 second cooldown. Not sure if this is a fix to the problem you mentioned but it definitely makes some kind of difference.

 

Hi, that's me!

If I remember correctly, I think I first started exceeding 50k strafe lines on apple (meaning it beats out snipe if all 4 lines crit) at low 10k clean range. Could be wrong though. There's probably a few more than 6 people that are at that point, but yes, it's still not many.

What feels really bad is knowing that if you use snipe and all four of your lines would have been a crit then you're losing out on dps, but if you don't use snipe and none of your lines end up being a crit, you're also losing out on dps

I just want to caution against this line of thinking that "it's not many people affected by it, so it's not a big deal". There's two issues with this:
1. Power creep: if new content is slowly introduced that makes the player base stronger (eg: if pb comes out with mw30 and timeless weapons), more and more mm's might reach this threshold, not just the very top ones. We should plan for this now while we're still balancing classes, rather than let it creep in slowly and have to fix it later.
2. The chicken and egg problem: if we neglect the top mm's because it's a niche that doesn't affect many people, it will always be a niche because no one wants to push the limits of a class that is neglected and scales poorly.

Here's a few of the ways I can think of to adjust snipe and my thoughts on them:
1. Just raise the cap higher - won't solve the problem long term, just kicks it down the road.
2. Change it to be purely scaling damage - might hurt very weak mm's or when we're on no attack pots/gizer, but is better for stronger mm's on apple. I like the other solutions better.
3. Make it a combination of fixed damage + some amount of scaling damage added on top - seems like the best of both worlds to me.
4. As suggested by Sylafia, make it do the larger of the two (either the fixed damage or the scaling damage) - this also works!

 

Yup, confirmed myself, the HH we currently have is max dmg fixed, I rmber seeing a "version" Of HH that shows dmg in some version of the client not too advanced, if anything a HH that follows the formula seems like the best option IMO, a 300-400 or 500k fixed dmg could create an exploit.

P.D. why HH isnt an exploit rn if it has fixed dmg regardless of your gears/range? Just do the math, is not worth it... at all.

 

in first hand 100% agree on this! first of all denied the mules in boss runs more people can join them.

on the other hand buff heroes

 

Just a thought regarding (1): Would raising the damage cap really just kick the problem down the road?

There is a hypothetical limit to the possible range a Marksman can have. Unless something else (game-breaking) is introduced which dramatically changes this limit, the class could at least be rebalanced to have a uniform playstyle among players with ranges below it (by improving the damage per minute of a fixed damage Snipe in any number of ways). But is that the goal? Also, this still heavily benefits lesser funded Marksmen. I think it seems that you do want scaling with range in some way.

 

I can't find where I suggested it but I suggested in the past flat damage + scaling as well

Something like 100k base dmg + attack scaling.

• Snipe will be weaker than before when you're like 13x-15x for unfunded players
• Still extremely useful since their strafe lines are hitting very low as well, probably around 100k on apple (2 crits + 2 non crits)
• Make it so you can out DPS old snipe at a very generous point, let's say 9-10k range MM (with MW20 clean) should out dps old snipe which I think is a very reasonable goal @ 200, but also MM 1k Range lower on Apple should out DPS old snipe by a little.
• The high ranged MMs in my scenario shouldn't be hitting much higher than 300k, and that's with an extreme amount of funding anyways (12k+~)

Most importantly making Snipe scale with WA greatly incentivizes us to apple more. This skill literally benefits us more when we're on lower WA pots.

People saying disable mules:

• The newest current end-game content is mule-free due to 1hko mechanics (Von Leon) or one character entry (Rose Garden)
• I'm pretty sure staff is going to continue in that direction which I think is good.
• Before people keep asking for mules to be disabled in older content, they need to thoroughly experience the current end-game content and realize there already is mule-free end-game content, and it feels like the direction the staff is most likely going to continue on

 

Not a fan of any Snipe changes that nerf the damage of Snipe to less than 200k at early 4th job. The class is already weak, and part of the MM appeal is hitting 200K with 1 point in Snipe with minimal meso investment.

If considering changes to the class, please primarily consider the typical marksman, not necessarily the dozen who can maximize DPS on demon elixir by cutting snipe from their rotation.

A change to Snipe that would not nerf any players and ensure Snipe+Strafe is kept in the rotation at the highest ranges would be Snipe = 175K flat + 500% w/crit chance.
This will do ~200k, no apple at level 120-140 for a player ~5b in watt gear. For the uber-funded lv200s with ranges where Strafe alone out-DPS strafe+Snipe (15K average range with buffs and no SI), this should do about ~275K.

 

Hey there sorry for just inserting this here but I figured this is where you posted didn't really want to make my own topic maybe I should have oh well...

So I understand before I post this that I'm most likely wasting my time with Royals being out 11 years I don't think such a change will be implemented however, Mama didn't raise no quitter so here we all are... the reason I'm posting this is because of advanced charge range extension being mentioned and I figure I have some input for that so here we go.

One of the requests I really wanted to use was the v117 version of Advanced charge blow, I believe it was pre big bangs animations.
Since it was mentioned in the OP about the possibility of charge blow being extended I figured I would give it a shot and explain how I would implement this, White Knights work pretty hard compared to most other classes and the visible reward just doesn't seem great, sure they can get the job done but it's about increasing quality of life and fun at the same time

If you take a look at the other warrior 3rd jobs, Crusaders get combo attack which looks cool and is active with its constant orb gains etc dragon knights have some of the best looking skills in the game.
White Knights legitimately get one of the worst looking attacks in the game, The skill actually looks like it was designed for an NPC to use, With this all being said I believe it's time to kill two birds with one stone.

Increasing the range of advanced charge will dramatically increase the quality of life of Paladin training as well as give us a little bit more boss advantage such as zakum arms/horntail etc without being too overpowered and breaking the balance of the game while at the same time updating the animation to To be worthy of an actual third job skill.

lastly I just want to state that I'm not some armchair developer blindly requesting something difficult to add I know nothing about your source or what you are running however actually reverse engineered and built my own game using the Maplestory engine from HeavenMS, I was able to implement this change in my server in less than six minutes both for the range and for the Animations skins so I know when I see what you've already did to the current skills what I would like is a complete joke to implement, I hope you seriously consider this because it would be great.

On a finishing side note, You guys need to Update your string.wz because it does not reflect that level one advanced charge grants 100% chance :3

Here is a picture of the Skins for advanced charge that I am talking about

 

I actually think Heaven's Hammer is fine as it is right now: 200k with a 20 second cooldown. I wouldn't wanna see HH do more damage if it means having a longer cooldown...
If the skill does get altered, keep it at 20 seconds please!