Perma Ban clean slate, Statute of Limitations

Well regarding these 3 points -

1. I have not read the ToS for any of those nor said I did, I said its my responsibility to do so and IF I DIDN'T I should not be surprised I got banned and seek forgiveness.

2. Idk the process behind bans or ban appeal review and I don't know if the staff are always taking the easy way and you are disrespectful for assuming that, anyway if you want to give the majority of the community an enjoyable experience you can't always be correct in everyone's eyes.

3. Good job giving new players the feeling they are welcome to stay! seems like in your mind only old players should voice their opinions. And hopefully I would not get banned as I am doing nothing that is against the rules, simple right?

I mean no offense to anyone here, I know it must be sad when your friends get banned, but then again remember this is a game you play for free and rules are here for a reason (like it or not play or don't).

 

I look in Ban Apeal from time to time and some people are innocent and others are clearly guilty.
And for those who are guilty, there are those who admit their guilt with grace and those who repeat their excuses in an ugly way.

If someone pleads guilty gracefully and it is a minor infraction, that person will come back a while later.
If it is a serious offense, he may not come back.
But that is only because that person failed to check the rules.
In the community I am in, we always tell new players to be careful.
New players who don't want to belong to an out-of-game community may possibly violate without realizing it, but I believe that is why we have shanks.
As inadequate as it may be, but GMs have recently added a quest to watch out for Vote Abuse.

Those who repeat excuses in an ugly way are usually the first to hide their own transgressions.
I think those people are incapable of changing.
This is evidenced by the large number of Ban Evasion arrests recently.

The biggest challenge is that it is difficult to distinguish between such vicious players and those who have only made one mistake.
As GMs said, it is almost impossible to achieve this without devoting significant resources.
If that is the case, I believe that the current state of the game is some sort of ideal to protect the rights of good players.

I think currently you all tend to forget that this is an emulated server.
To begin with, it is a kind of backward-looking place.
We should keep that in mind and understand that it is very different from asking for something from a formal service that we pay for.
I see a lot of selfishness from users these days.

 

Im sorry, you guys must have missunderstood me as I wrote it poorly. I have nothing against people expressing their thoughts, regardless of how new/old they are. And yes, in these cases, such a the one with Tyloo, I do think that the length of a players visit here on Royals should matter.

Let me rephrase what I was trying to say. @Slashed, you've been here for 9 months. Imagine someone (or yourself) being here for 10 years and getting banned for something they probably don't even remember doing. Put yourself in those shoes and realize that what they/you've build for a decade (on and off) just get vaporized. I for one barely remember what I did on this server 10 years ago. I barely remember what I did IRL 10 years ago (except for maybe a couple of trips, getting a new job, major happenings etc).

Im not saying that a certain Staff member is taking the easy way. I'm saying that this entire process is taking the easy way out. "We don't have the resources so we won't care". If roasting the process is being disrespectful, then so be it.

I doubt most of these quizzes was around 10 years ago. For example, I don't think Shanks was around back then. Also, the absolute majority of people wouldn't even have read the ToS of any company even if they were 1 pages long. Not trying to justify anything. Again, just trying to be human in a mushroom game.

I'm not saying you should ignore findings. I'm saying you should forgive, those are two entierly different things. Give them some sort of punishment, sure if that makes everyone feel better. But a permanent ban 10 years after a rule-breaking was committed is to harsh.

 

I just hope that whoever’s next on the chopping block is there for a valid reason, and that whatever evidence staff has in the background against them is truly as clear and obvious as it’s made to sound.

I also hope that we’re using our rules as tools to help us towards a goal, rather than a structure to follow for the sake of following a structure.

 

This thread is not meant to address specific players bans from what I understand, it is to examin the weight of permanent bans and the options to change the way to are given/removed.

"Imagine someone (or yourself) being here for 10 years and getting banned for something they probably don't even remember doing."
I can't since I have not had that experience so I shouldn't say things as if I know what XYZ feels like, but the input of any player is valid in any step of their journey here with the same weight.
As I see it everyone sees things differently based on their experience and if you want to be part of the community you need to let the community give feedback regardless of what they have in common with you or not.

A player seeing this thread might take anything from it, for example some might say this is not the place for them, rules too strict, others might think they need to refresh on the rules cause they don't want the headache of appealing later in case they get banned.

If you really want to give feedback to encourage a change just say what you want to say and leave it at that, staff will read and if anything people said here seems right to change they might change it or not.
I think the post should remain as a place to simply give feedback in the form of opinion and not debate who has the right opinion.

Happy mapling.

 

at this point I find it kind of comedic how much ignorance is being displayed here, regardless of how well the staff is presenting the hard factual issues that this change will cause, the arguement still repeats, as if nothing was said.
furthermore I cant help it but find it disrespectful thinking that you know better, not gonna name names but I am sure that anyone who supports this, if you were put in charge you would quickly realise your vision is impossible to implement, only then you would realise that this would overwhelm, put pressure, create a snowball of problems, not having enough resources to work on events, updates, new bosses, long waited class changes and above all, the amount of bans being handled right now is already outrageous, 25815 a year lmao, thats an average of 70 accounts banned in a day, I am sorry but I am at a point where I can't not laugh.

I can keep going, talking about the fact that the staff have been doing all this for free, putting pressure on them to somehow do even more is just... there’s no respect in that, no consideration for the bigger picture.
talking about the fact that there is another potential problem that could arise, while this one is not factual like the issues I listed above, it is more likely to happen then not(and even if it won't, it's only the cherry on top):
possible community division and accusations of favoritism: I said it before and I will say it again, introducing exceptions would create doubt and conflict, with players arguing over who deserves leniency and who doesn’t, its very easy to overlook this as this has not happened that much before simply because of how strong and consistent the system integrity has been in having 0 tolerance, its so easy to not see this as a potential issue but dont let the past confuse you, new changes = new consequences.

Don't get me wrong I am fully recognizing having 0 tolerance as a problem, but consequences unfortuantely exist, if we choose to ignore them like I keep seeing here it will not get us far.
I believe there are issues where its right and I would even feel obligated to look at them through an idealistic lens, however, here, in this case, its time to respect the realities of what this community and staff can realistically handle.

 

I know that all of these are valid points. But yeah what ever, I'm out. Nothing is gonna change around here. If it does, that's nice.

 

Well i must say this is a really hard and though topic.

Yes i agree that in some cases people need a 2nd chance, but there are also situations that might change it.

Lets say someone is new to the server and performs the act of RWT, he will get banned according to the server rules for PERM to never return.
Now lets say the guy ban evades for 2 years, in these 2 years he plaid fully by the rules and did not nothing wrong and gets banned for bann evading, is this really a good thing ?

People can change and if someone plays this long and you investigate and he now is a honest player why bann a loyal player again for a mistake in the past which he might even not known that he broke the rule, some servers do allow the RWT so he might thought it was oke in the past but now know it is not.

There are allot more situations you can say oke someone deserves a 2nd change and then you can keep an eye on him or inbestigate after a while incase of low GM interns.

In the sistuation ofcourse of cloning items through a glitch or hacking in the game i 100% agree those people dont deserve a 2nd chance since they ruin the whole game and the economics of the server.


To be clear i dont advertise rule breaking im 100% against it and people should play fair but i wanted to share my insight regarding 2nd chances / clean slate.

 

Most of the positive people on this thread claim that “people can change”, but they never provide any evidence for this, and in my opinion it is not true.
In my opinion, human nature does not change.
From mistakes, they just learn the line that should not be broken, and they either stop doing it, or they end up doing bad things that are right on the edge of it.
It is just the same as any animal that is somewhat wise would do.
And only a few smart people try to make as few mistakes as possible in the first place.

My personal opinion aside, those who are making similar claims in this thread should keep in mind that GM can shut down this server at any time.
That is, anytime they are not comfortable with continuing as is.
And to make such a claim out of personal convenience or profit, without thinking it through fully, is to encourage it in no small way.
Not that I don't understand your opinions at all, but I think it is quite unreasonable.

After all, if you don't like this kind of environment and treatment, just create a tolerant and ideal server.
Why don't you try it once?
With so many supporters, I am sure it will be a popular and active server.
Based on your beliefs, I am sure you will succeed.
(I think you guys will eventually give up because you will get tired of how dirty and selfish people can be.)

 

두 번째 기회를 주어도 페이투윈이 금지인 이상 같은 문제가 생길 것이다. 이 서버가 사람이 없어서 문제라면 운영진이 알아서 페이투윈을 조정하지 않을까? 그러한 변화가 있기 전까지, 이러한 논의는 오히려 규칙을 좀먹는 행위일 뿐이라고 생각한다.

다만, 운영진은 밴회피를 잡아내기보다는 매크로봇을 쓰는 사람들을 우선으로 잡아내야 한다고 생각한다. 예전처럼 사냥터 (특히 bossing area, goby)를 돌아다니며 매크로를 판별하거나, 특정 매크로 프로그램을 실행하면 클라이언트를 종료시키는 방식으로. rwt는 매크로와 관련이 있다.

 

In my experience, a teenager cheating, hacking, or doing other perma banned things should remain banned because teens are (usually) not mature enough yet to fully grasp why their behavior is detrimental to the game and its playerbase. However, there is a chance they could change in the future.

An adult on the other hand, if they cheat, hack, etc, they should remain banned because at that point, your personality is more or less set in stone and is very unlikely to change. As some other people mentioned in previous posts, some rules can be perhaps a bit grey-ish, but for the most part, once someone starts cheating, they won't stop. I lost count how many ban evading players I've seen in royals and other games that "have totally changed" and then get in trouble again for the same shit they got banned for the first time

I made this video a couple years ago. Not on royals, but similar topic:

 

To summarize the thread

1. Many people believe that for minor offenses people deserve a second chance, ban evasions after a long period. Vote Abuse/Account Sharing, etc. This seems to be universally accepted to some degree, but where the line is subject to everyone's opinions of which criteria, how long for someone to change, etc. Ranging from 5 year old ban evaders get amnesty to all minor charges.
2. The staff does not have the bandwidth to handle all their staff duties already as well as remain extra vigilant on former rule breakers. Furthermore it keeps things fair if punishments are uniform.
3. There is no active data on how well anyone 'rehabilitates' to the server. GMs have provided many examples where people do return back into doing things against the rules.
4. Maple is in it's nature a Pay2Win game. NX by it's nature is a currency that allows someone to 'win' whether it's APRs, Gacha Pulls, Safety Charms, VIP Rocks, etc. So there is a lot of incentive for someone to break the rules to 'get ahead'
5. Royals has maintained a large volume of players, which has reportedly been growing, although there is a lot of churn, there's a lot of new players that churn in as well. By being one of the top private servers there is also going to be a lot of motive of bad actors to RWT, etc.

Based on all this I want to bring up my newer opinions on the matter.

It's a game, we love, we enjoy, but at the end of the day it's a game, you can (And should) play something else. If your friend works as the banker in monopoly and steals extra cash, the game isn't as fun. A lot of times people get that nostalgia bug, come back, play a bit and go away. How many ban appeals are "Well it's been 2 years I felt nostalgia again" these aren't pillars of the community, these are people who just want to have fun, and why waste time grinding when they only want to play a few months before getting bored. They want the easy way, and there's people here that actually play this server.

Players are constantly pushing right up against the boundary. (""Well it wasn't spelt out in bold red text I couldn't winter dash twice, so I did it on two computers OMG Why ban me everyone's doing it!!!!one") As someone in a K-12 teaching background, you have to commit to your punishments or they don't mean anything. Sure some people were 'martyrs' of the unfair system, but the double clienting more or less stopped. I applaud staff that for all of their criticism that the rules have been consistent, delayed sure, but consistent. If 20 people are speeding, someone's gotta be the first few pulled over to get everyone back to the speed limit.

Do I feel that ban appeals are a little weighted, definitely (We can't share the evidence with you, because that'll help people figure out how to sneak past it). I don't doubt this evidence in most cases, but I am sure there are also people unfairly banned. Most justice systems are based on innocent until proven guilty, which is fine, when you are talking about human rights, jail, etc. A private server like this has to be Guilty until proven innocent. Imagine if in real life that if you were imprisoned you just wake up in a new body, find your old friends and your old stuff, etc and continue on.

We love to see the pure and good and nostalgia the quiet Nexon of 2006-2008, the volume of players so vast we didn't see when people got banned. We're a small little group. We notice when our guildmate or friend is banned we see the good in people cause they're our friends, we're close-knit. Of course when it hits close to home it's easy to get angry.

If you don't like this server and how it is, sure you can advocate for change, but I feel staff has clearly laid out the "Here's the problem we have" there's no magic solution that hasn't been thought up. There's no magic "Okay here's your can't cheat again collar" There's no Scarlet A they can put on players so we all scrutinize them a little bit more if they were previously banned. It sucks, but we're not playing official GMS, this is a charity project to make a lot of nerds happy & nostalgic, and it's lasted 10 years with these policies, so maybe they're actually doing something right.