In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

IMO

Spoiler: BM

why nerf only? instead buff multi attack skills
Even so, I still use the arrow bomb to stun enemies.
IMO, BM's damage scaling is sooooo weak that I've given up on dealing damage.pros has already said, even if the arrow's ATT increases, it remains weak dmg( due to the calculation formula
I'd be happy if it had supportive skills and good playability.
I like being able to stun, slow, push, and pin mobs.
However, when attacking at 0 range, I can’t knock back, stun, or deal damage, and my body feels heavy, so I can’t move freely.
NL, who can fly freely, can use ninja powers to perform a zero-range push.
I wonder why a archers standing on the ground can't hit a target right in front of them.
In that case, it would be nice if I could jump-cast a few other skills, too. Am I asking for too much
If it does so little damage and is hard to use, that's exactly why it ends up being a “mule.”
By the way, does “concentrate” not stack?
Even bucc's “energy charge” stacks—though it might be a bug.

Spoiler: bucc

Since everyone’s sharing so many opinions on bucc, I’ll leave the decision up to players.
But if you’re going to make such major changes and adjustments that allow players to “use” a wide variety of skills, could you please reconsider the SP?
How much NX should I use to try out new skills? Gimme full SP reset. ※half joke haha
And I hope this short little “Shockwave” will be of some use.

 

In theory, shouldn't you be able to cover the movement speed nerf by casting the blue transformation during orange downtime?

 

If you're not planning on using Shockwave, then you're probably better off mounting and dismounting and Corkscrewing up the higher platforms, no?

 

I always found mounting to be really clunky, ironically because I'm used to sair mounting and dismounting which is way smoother and allows you to buffer actions mid-animation. I wish monster riding worked the same way as battleship

the existence of dash makes the speed/jump from transformation even less of a factor IMO, although the most popular bucc guide says to put 0 points in dash so that skill must not be very good

 

Buccs are now weaker, clankier, with less utility and are less fun to play with absolutely zero upside to those facts. Other classes automatically got stronger in comperison and not only that other classes got buffed, which makes it feel even worse.

You said people will need to take 2 buccaneers to parties, but why would you take even 1? Their dmg is sagnificantly lower and you think parties will take 2 of them? So a party will lose twice from this nerf just for snatch? I think most parties will take a bucc mule for si.

Tl got nerfed from the ss nerf and now does not help with more smokes for a party of 4 shads. Even more reasons to not take a bucc to a party since shads dont need si anyways.

Buccs were already quite hard in RG now they are way harder.

I've been playing here for 6 years or so and I feel that making buccs harder to play with no benefit is devastating for people who worked hard to create a multi attack army. That is my main source of income in the game. Once again I feel as if you guys want vetern players to mage farm instead of truly playing the game.

The fact that buccs are important to a party for their SI and TL makes this nerf even more annoying because we cant really ditch them completely and we will need to mule them, one more mule is needed for mulestory.

In conclusion Many bucc mains and vetern players wount be waiting for phase 2 for buccs to be playable again, and will play other games and other servers instead.

 

Oof GMS had it at 30%??? Poor buccs...

Isn't that 50%?


What's everyone's thoughts on keeping the same 75% uptime but making the cycle faster, like 1.5 min up 30s down? Might make the downtime not feel as bad because you get st back soon anyways

 

Obviously the staff hope to sanction solo bossing (300m/hr). Yet multimage farmers and goby leech sellers are still making more than that.

People who spent 30b hp washing a party, billions meso on gears, and lots of time farming untradable gears are pretty much fked.

 

Hold on that thought for now. Mage balance is next!

 

Well, for a period of time, I used to do the first two stages of RG without ST to see if the speed boost gained from mounting during the intervals where I wouldn't be attacking would make up for the somewhat lower damage. And while it was somewhat slower, it wasn't so slow that I couldn't finish RG and get 20 bees or even get a horrible time. So i don't think it's that bad.
However, I did hear from a lot of people that they thought RG on Bucc was terrible, even pre-ST nerf. So I'm not sure how correct this is since I was able to do RG on warrior elixers in like +- 25 minutes depending on the ETC and bee drops.

 

Suggesting balancing gameplays:
reduce the number of bombing fish house to 1 each map.
Aqua Road - Deep Sea Gorge II 11
Party Quest - Pirate Mastery Room 5
Aqua Road - The Grave of a Wrecked Ship 4
Aqua Road - Deep Sea Gorge I 4
Aqua Road - Dangerous Sea Gorge I 3

 

Thank you @Tim Would it be possible to also know the thought process for every other class change? Like why NL needed a buff in avenger dmg% and why archers needed a nerf in skill dmg% for arrow bomb etc?
I understand this was written in the patch notes but imo was just brief statements not detailed explanations of the thought process behind it.

I think if we were given a detailed explanation like the one you wrote here for buccs more people would understand it better.

Giving us confirmations like “will this change be reverted” like what you did above is also very helpful

 

Multi client bossing, multi mage farming, and goby leech are too powerful. There seems to be a common factor behind all the broken things in this game. What is it? Multi clienting of course!

It enables ridiculous scaling to farming, muling in bossing, and discourages group play.

Why are we side stepping the real issue and making changes that only pushes people to multi client with different classes? imo the only solution to all this is to ban multi clienting or severely punish it. Until then, nothing will truly be fixed no matter how much classes are tweaked. Buccs are no longer good for multi clienting? No problem, let’s just substitute a hero in its place, and move on as usual.

I know this will never be implemented or supported because apparently multi clienting has become the “identity” of this server. A lot of people have become accustomed to it, so we shouldn’t change it. But that argument doesn’t work for Buccs? Seems like weird cherry picking to me.

I sincerely hope multi clienting is addressed sometime in the future, preferably soon, but won’t keep my hopes up given the state of the server.

 

You have to address things one at a time!

It's like if... what if the world was being overrun by vampires and ghouls, and the government said, okay we're going to go kill the vampires, and you said, what about the ghouls??

 

Hero vs DK

There is hero,dk 's problem, if DK has more dps than hero, people play dk, so the decline of hero,, if Hero has more dps than dk, people play hero, so the decline of dk.
That happens if we only focus on dps

Hero's themes : stable, utility, decent dmg ?

Brandish has more range, Rage and Enrage is stackable are great.
( Although it might be too much for hero to get that much dmg from Enrage, could it be lower ? )
This will distinct hero from dk, hero would always be on demand with stackable rage.

But I think hero should still get some more features, utilities,, in order to make this class sweet enough. Here are my suggestions that I think it fits hero's theme.

Could we give hero 95-99% stance rate ?
Could we give hero 50-80% Achilles ?
Could we give hero better rate of Guardian ?
Could we work on Shout to make it good enough so it can be used in pt runs ?

DK's themes : intense dmg, burst dmg, blood soak dmg, dmg with big cost " Zerking ", less utilities than hero ?

Could we make DK one of elite DPS like NL, Sair ? (Doesn't mainly mean in terms of ST DPS.)

Like, on 30-50%, DK's dps might be on par or even superior to current shad.
On 20-30%, DK's dps might be close to NL's.
On <20%, DK's dps might even exceed NL's, maybe on Sair level.

We could work on HB to have more meaningful utility, but I don't like stance pt buff, that's weird and ...
But in terms of utilities, it should be inferior to hero's.

I don't know much about these classes, so could be wrong.

 

i guess its time to sell my dsc T_T

 

Hi Tim first of all thank you for replying and addressing this patch,

I will break down your points and give the opinion of me and I believe many others I've spoken with in game and as you can see in my thread if you don't mind,

As I do understand ST has much bigger downtime in the past in this server and even much more than that in gms but you did make this change 7 years ago,

So basically in the last 7 years many people have made their buccs based on the notion that ST has 100% up time,

Majority of people that have made buccs since that update made it with intention to use it's full skillset at all times,

Now the claim is "it's only 75% now it's not that bad like it was 7 years ago"

Yeah it is not as bad as it was before, but there's a reason many players made buccs after the ST change and now you're taking that same reason away,

Basically it's like me having a hotdog stand, for 7 years I invested my time, effort, resources into the the hotdog stand then 1 day the government is making a law that forces me to sell hotdogs only 75% of the time while the other 25% I need to sell Sushi,

I have no idea about Sushi, I'm not as passionate towards Sushi as I am to hotdogs and now I'm demoralized because I was forced into a position I didn't even want,

But then I hear the government coming out with a statement "Sushi isn't so bad you will get used to it" "You only have to sell Sushi for 25% of the time"

Personally I would not even make a bucc in the first place if I knew about this change and many many I've spoken to in game say the same, some friends of mine stopped leveling their future buccs and started selling the gear they bought,

I was super happy to play bucc since it gave me a nice end game experience without selling my soul to hp wash a NL or Shad while having great utility which is taken away now.

attached to this post is a full uncropped screenshot with server time from just now of a 103 KC for 750m in fm according to the price guide in June 8 (less than a month ago) the price of 103 KC was 920m 18.5% price drop

I'd say I'm pretty new to the server I've started playing around February, people that know me in game know that I run ht daily (or at least ran before the patch) due to the changes with shads (which I have no issue with) I don't think it's really viable since arms are left last in horntail in most parties now so while doing ht with my bucc I found myself sitting out on my chair waiting for ST to be back so I can attack arms in a decent way and not DS them while getting knocked back if I'm out of bubble which I can barely charge without ST in the first place,

Buccs even before this patch were known to have Jump Quest experience in horntail fighting to charge bubble everytime, now when focusing on head C / arms / wings trying to charge bubble or attacking them mainly with DS first dps was reduced way more than 97-98% in this scenario,

Nobody took Buccs into LHC because of their AOE damage it was just for SI and TL mainly, now having no snatch for 60 seconds basically making them a SI / TL mule every 3 minutes in LHC and other content, saying find another bucc and deal with the meta sure it's possible but it just makes the game not enjoyable for buccs,

Yesterday I went on VL nobody wanted to sign as a bucc, party leader had to look for extra buccs for 1-2 hours before then run, by the way this weekend I was supposed to have my first VL with my bucc and decided not to sign with it since I just hate the playstyle now, I gave it a chance in ht and decided to just give up doing any content of this sort with bucc.

This was overpowered and I do agree with you here

So my claim and many others as you can see in my thread and in game as well is that we don't mind a direct and even huge dps reduction, it's the playstyle that we like and now it's taken away from us,

Another thing that comes to mind who guarantess that if I decide to invest into other job right now and level it up, hp wash, buy gear the way you use skillset won't change? nobody, which makes it very demoralizing to play.

I ask you to please reconsider this decision, I understand you probably invested a lot of time programming this changes but if you really care about the community look at the smegas in game, look at how much traction my thread received in a short period of time there's a reason for that,
As it stands right now the poll in my thread has 98 people that disagree with this nerf (64.1%) while 55 agree (35.9%) It's a huge gap I'd say.

Thank you for addressing this regardless, this are my 2 cents on this as just another MapleRoyals bucc player that wants to enjoy the game.

Hope this gets taken into account but even if not at least I tried.

I will leave 1 last quote from my thread about "getting back to origins" claim

 

Idk about you but this reply got me some craving for hot dogs.

Anyways, I've experienced bucc VL twice since the patch and I can say it's manageable if you hold your ST until mobs appear.

Downside is lack of DPS.

These runs were cleared with significantly less amount of time left because we lack demo for at least 15% of the time if not more.

Yeah, sure, mobbing is manageable.

Attacking VL tho? It's ass.

If VL respawns b2 / b3 and there's an unlucky lines of rocks with your ST on CD.. yikes.

I agree Buccs should've been nerfed, I don't agree this was the correct way.

I do understand that this change won't get reverted, so it's as useful as putting a bandaid on a gun wound to argue, but I'm sure many are unhappy, including myself.

Thank you for your detailed explanation @Tim , now, what are we going to do about drks

 

在体验了这次技改三天之后，我认为GM们似乎只考虑了“每个人只玩1个角色，每个人只开1个客户端”的场景。从这个角度出发，虽然shad+bucc的组合失去了之前的连携统治力，不能再长时间的“傻瓜式”作战，但由于只开1个客户端，所以有足够的精力面对各种情况。整体上看，只是调整位置的次数比之前多了不少，不是什么大问题。

然而实际情况是，大多数时候，我们之中的很多人都会开2个以上的客户端，同时操作2个以上的角色。更有相当一部分玩家建立了以“shad+bucc”作为核心体系的“单人军团”，同时操作3,4个甚至更多的客户端，每天做solo或者duo的内容——这是他们最主要的收入来源。但在这次技改后，在这个“单人体系”下，同时操作shad和bucc变得极为困难，他们最根本的赚钱手段被严重影响。
在我看来，大多数人玩这个游戏的终极目标都是让自己的角色不断变强(有一些把royals完全当做社交游戏的玩家除外)，更直白一点说，就是尽可能地赚更多的钱，只是每个人选了不同的方式。

细数最近几年对玩家收入来源造成重大影响的几次更新:削弱了rg，削弱了goby leech，再到今天，削弱了以“shad+bucc”为体系的军团。伴随于此的是，一些热门产出比如mw20、gen30、mir10等的价格比起3年前下降了大概30%-40%，而且仍然呈继续下降的趋势，也就是说，玩家通过打boss赚到的钱越来越少。

再看mage farm，他们从未有过任何削弱，每个event的获益最大者始终是他们，随着游戏物价的日益降低，他们甚至得到越来越高的收益。而且他们的投资门槛极低，不需要花费数十b洗血，更不需要花费上百b来购买顶级装备，只需要将一个个法师升级到四转，就能随时加入“印钞机”的队伍。

我能理解GM们想鼓励玩家更多地参与到多人活动中去，比如像VL那样由于落石的即死机制导致每个人只能开一个客户端(我非常喜欢这个设计)。然而也请你们能考虑到每个玩家都有自己追求的目标，大多数玩家都在为了变强而不断努力，“单人军团”就是我们之中很多人的做法。而这次更新使得mage farm成为唯一的最优解，这无疑是在向那些仍然在坚持打boss的玩家发出的极其危险的信号——如果你想变强，请立刻加入mage farm。

如果有一天，当所有玩家都意识到这样的事实，每个人上线唯一做的事就是登录自己的所有法师，炸图、炸图、无间断的炸图......那时候的服务器会是什么样的？
我相信每个人都不愿意看到这样的情况，然而悲哀的是，如果不尽快做出改变，这几乎已经是可以预见的未来。

After experiencing this technical update for three days, I've come to realize that the GMs seem to have only considered the scenario where "each player runs just one character and operates a single client." From this perspective, although the shad+bucc combo has lost its previous synergy dominance and can no longer sustain prolonged "foolproof" gameplay, running just one client allows players sufficient energy to handle various situations. Overall, it's merely a matter of needing to reposition more frequently than before—nothing major.

However, in reality, most of us often run two or more clients simultaneously, controlling two or more characters at once. A significant number of players have even built up so-called "solo legions" centered around the shad+bucc system, operating three, four, or even more clients daily to engage in solo or duo content—this being their primary source of income. But after this update, under such a "solo framework," simultaneously managing both shad and bucc has become extremely difficult, severely undermining their fundamental method of earning money.

In my view, the ultimate goal for most players is to continuously strengthen their characters (excluding those who treat Royals purely as a social game). Put simply, they aim to earn as much money as possible—just through different approaches.

Looking back at recent updates that significantly impacted player income: weakening rg, then goby leech, and now the suppression of the shad+bucc-based legion model. Alongside these changes, prices for popular items like mw20, gen30, and mir10 have dropped by approximately 30%–40% compared to three years ago—and continue to decline. This means players are making less and less from boss runs.

Meanwhile, mage farms have never been nerfed. They remain the biggest beneficiaries of every event. As in-game prices keep falling, their profits have actually increased. Moreover, their entry barrier is extremely low—no need to spend tens of billions on hp wash or hundreds of billions on top-tier gear. Simply leveling up mages to the fourth transformation allows anyone to instantly join the "money-printing machine."

I understand the GMs' intention to encourage more participation in multiplayer activities—like VL, where the instant-kill mechanic of falling rocks forces each player to use only one client (a design I truly appreciate). However, please also consider that every player has their own goals. Most are striving hard to grow stronger, and building a "solo legion" is exactly what many of us do. Yet this update has made mage farming the only optimal solution—an undeniably dangerous signal sent to those still grinding bosses: if you want to get stronger, join the mage farm immediately.

Imagine a future when all players realize this truth—their sole activity upon logging in is launching all their mages into endless, uninterrupted map explosions. What would servers look like then?

I believe no one wants to see such a scenario. Sadly, unless changes are made soon, it’s almost an inevitable future.