Leeching and thoughts on what it does to the game.

Hardly anyone used to run hand of midas besides junglers that didn't show themselves to the rest of the map until 25 minutes or VERY VERY hardcore farmers in certain situations (but very rare). Because let's face is, money can be better spent elsewhere. Same with a bishop, if you don't want to heavy leech yourself to HP wash heavily, then I feel a HS mule (because it helps efficiency while grinding at temple of time if your partner doesn't have one) and concentrating the rest of your time on your attacking class, is in my opinion more efficient, but at the end of the day it all depends on what you want from the game.

Not going to bother replying to @leoye123 after this because honestly we have totally different opinions, and most of the things he just mentioned, from my experience with the game is incorrect (people have already mentioned things in this thread to disprove that). Because honestly what's faster, to leech two characters to 125 (might take around 150 hours+ total?) not even mentioning that he has to make the bishop as well- this could be equal to grinding your main (could be level 150+ by then from 75). It's so unreasonable to see that as game breaking if he has worked hard to achieve those mules. & why are we still going on about leeching being faster than grinding? maybe from like 75-120, that's it, on average from 1-200 it's MUCH MUCH slower. Also skelegons still? Get out of holy weak mobs if you're complaining about bishops or go to the other skelegon maps.

 

This was my point when I mentioned my Hero in relation to my Bishop. There are a lot of 200 Mages on our server; more than half of the total 200s, I think. Of those Mages, most of them are Bishops. Why is that? Bishops don't really train that much faster than any other character. It's more of a dedication thing, like IntervisioN pointed out; if you're dedicated to your character, you'll level it, and if your goal is 200, you will make it.

The reason there are more 200 Bishops is because a lot of people use them to leech their other characters. And then those other characters never make it to 200. I can count on one hand the number of 200 Bishops that are owned by a player with another level 200 non-mage character. If leech really was all that gamebreaking, that number would be more, wouldn't it? Leeched characters would be beating non-leeched characters to 200.

EDIT: I wanted to add here the point that the time you save by leeching VS not leeching is negligible compared to the total time you'll spend grinding your character getting from 1-200 anyway.

Let's flip it and look at it a different way: of all of the level 200 non-mage characters, only -four- of them also have a level 200 Mage class, and one of those four accomplished 200 on their Mage class after they did it on their non-Mage. If leeching really was all that overpowered and really was all that game changing, shouldn't that number be higher? Shouldn't leeched characters far outstrip non-leeched characters?

Face it; we're not asking you if what we're saying is true, we're telling you from the experiences of actual higher leveled players; leech doesn't break anything. What leech does is provide a way to level up your character from 75-125ish more time-efficiently than you would otherwise be able, and provides a secondary market to the economy of this server by allowing players to trade their money for their time. It's your 100% complete choice whether or not to use the facets of the game in front of you or not. The same way you may prefer to not leech at all, there's a player who leeched exclusively to 200 and there is absolutely nothing wrong with either choice.

 

what

 

SELLING LEECH!

 

RIP MATT

 

While I respect his dedication, no single player should have access to SI, SE, HS at anytime unless he grinded all those characters without leech IMHO.

It's really unfair to other players that one player has GM-like abilities. It makes him some sort of god-like figure with all these buffs, which is why I'm against multi-clienting and leeching in general.

I don't think I'm going to post anymore. I definitely posted enough information regarding my opinion on leeching and what it does to the game.

I don't like how leeching is the primary / most effective way to level from 75-130.
I don't like how the economy is dominated by noobs spending most of their hard earned mesos on leeching.
And I don't like how people like Plenty can earn 100M / hour while killing gobies like hes on 10X exp. Meanwhile I am grinding skeles earning 10M / hour with my slow as shit killing.

Back then GMS v62 didn't feel this.... capitalistic.

 

I've leeched and grinded characters from 58+ and I can tell you for certain that 58-75 is MUCH SLOWER leeching than grinding.

 

It actually is. it is MUCH faster to grind/lmpq than it is to leech. Even with a bish, i chose to grind because it was much faster.

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Nice edit...

Also if you're making 10m/hr at Skeles you're doing something seriously wrong. I made that at GS2 at level 50.

 

It's not at all uncommon for people to have those buffs and more. Why do you care so much about how others are playing the game? You can't expect your vision of nostalgia to just fall right into your lap. If you're not feeling it, then make yourself feel it. I'll quote myself from a different thread, though the situation isn't the same I think a lot of it can apply.

I created my own fun and nostalgia with my friends. I don't understand why you're expecting some utopian leech-free society when you're only ruining your own fun by doing so. Who cares if someone is making more money than you? Actively try to make more and improve yourself. 10m is easily obtained by near everyone, so you have a lot to work towards ATM. Make self-improvement your goal rather than comparing yourself to people who you might view as nearing end-game.

 

I feel like this is you trying to force your view of fun on others. Plenty and other players who have access to all the resources they do earned them. Do you think someone gets access to multiple 3rd/4th job abilities out of no where? Even with Bishop Leech you're looking at a rather ridiculous pile of mesos and time spent just to get them to 120.

Besides you can't just drag these mules everywhere. They are good for grinding and select bosses, but the use doesn't go beyond that

Now Multiclient itself is pretty gray area, but it really isn't comparable to outright hacking, and is fair game for everyone as long as Staff deem it acceptable.

By this logic its unfair if a player got godly gear and uses it while people have garbage for equips. If you put in the time and work you deserve to reap the benefits of it as long as its within the rules of the game. This, and Korean MMO's in general, are competitive grinding based games by nature and this is why MapleStory had rankings since near the start of the game. There is always going to be a more efficient way to do something. You don't have to adhere to it but you can't be mad that people who choose efficiency over the "achievement" of leveling through 3rd job with pure grinding

You and I played very different games then. By v62 all the things you hate were in full swing and a good portion of the high leveled community in v62+ participated in mule usage, multiclient, and leeching.

It was actually more problematic and apparent there since there was no real crackdown on account sharing. Having access to a single Bishop gave a massive boost to a guild in that scenario.

I think your main problem is you sound a whole lot like a casual player, and most people attracted to Pre-Big Bang MapleStory liked it for a multitude of factors; including the competition.

 

You don't get it. I care about how others are playing the game because I LOVE this game and this community. I play it completely to socialize. It breaks my heart to be unable to find a grinding party because everyone I know / meet is leeching or getting leeched. As I mentioned before, leeching and muti-clienting isolates our community.

I was having a blast from lvl 1-100~ up to a point where I realized that leech is our ruler. I am not really salty as I am sad. Like a little boy finding out Santa isn't real.

BTW yes I edited because you guys had a good point. Thanks for sharing your experience, it was very nostalgic.

 

Imo, I don't see how leeching is harmful to this game. It's just a convenient route to go on when you don't want to grind those hard, tedious levels. Yes, the nostaligic part of MapleStory is grinding. But with the amount of Bishops already in the server, it's kind of hard to get rid of leech. Its a service that has its roots dug firmly into this server and is just a very good generator of income for those who have just gotten Genesis. If you want to appeal to the nostalgic part of MapleStory and grind your way up, that's completely fine. Just don't be bothered by people who take a faster, easier route through leeching. While grinders are doing their thing, in the meantime, Bishops are being paid for their service and the leeched get EXP more efficiently and faster. It's very easy to see that as a win-win situation.

Also, I can see how leeching can be negative towards a nostalgic aspect of the server. For those of you who think this, you can absolutely be right. Keep in mind though, this server comprises of a majority of mature, older people, in which most may lead a busy, time consuming life at the moment. Although its 4x, grinding levels actually takes a bit of time, and leeching just gets rid of the tediousness and pushes things forwards more quicker. If you want to grind your levels, go ahead. Don't criticize other people on how they play the game. Because as far as I know, people have their reasons to leech. They may not have enough time, or they just may not want to grind out the levels. People who choose to grind will do their thing, and people who choose to leech and gain levels faster will do their thing. That is all.

Note: I just saw the title of this thread and just simply wrote my opinions above. This wasn't directed towards anybody specific.

 

To be honest, I wish Holy Symbol didn't exist.

Edit: But it does exist, so I use it a lot of the time

 

Bah, I don't get people who leech. Why? What's the point? And why do so many people do it? So they get to a higher level faster, what do they gain from that? New skills? I get the feeling that leechers don't start leveling themselves when they get the skills they want, but just keep leeching for some arbitrary level number. Do they gain some sort of "prestige" that comes with being high-leveled? "Oh look, that guy is like 190, he must be a pro" - but nah, he paid people to kill things for him while he afk'd. I get that grinding can be irritating, but leeching totally defeats the purpose of everything. Sometimes, I feel like I want to pay leechers to level themselves, preferably in more unorthodox maps. Maybe there are like-minded people here, who are richer than I currently am, who are willing to do that?

Is there something I'm not seeing?

 

As mentioned numerous times, people don't leech after like, 135 at the most. And they only do leech between 75-120 or so. I've seen a few get leeched to 135, but it's been rare. And leech occurs because it's a lot faster than grinding through those lower levels, especially for some characters.
It's efficient, that's why people choose to do it. Also because the next big milestone after 4th job is level 135 when you can finally zak and get exp.

It doesn't really defeat the purpose of anything because you still have to grind to get to a decent leeching level and then grind some more afterwards to hit a level where you'll be relevant.

But again for people who tl;dr

You don't get leeched at higher levels. Leech is mainly for 75-120 (?) so that you can get the levels which are inefficient to grind through.




I'm not quite sure what the avg max level for leech is so I leave it up to my fellow maplers to help me out on that one.

 

Point of the game is more killing bosses than leveling up if you ask me. I don't mind grinding but I'd rather just be a high level so I can do the fun stuff like killing bosses and spending my mesos on gear i know i won't be getting rid of in a few days. Lots of people say leeching is the reason that you have "bad" players at the higher levels but they're really overstating the difficulty of the game. And like people say, nobody leeches at high levels, which is when the leveling actually slows down. 199-200 is like 3%/hr for many classes, 33 hours of grinding will get you from like 30 to 70 in comparison. It literally doesn't matter if people leech to 120 because that's such an insignificant amount of XP compared to the amount you need to get from 120-200. Too many people act like leech kills the game, but leeching is slow and expensive. It's not like people are getting to 4th job with no effort. It takes plenty of effort to get the money to get leech in any significant volume where you aren't actually doing any leveling yourself.

 

Now I'm not trying to offend anyone by this post, but this thread is going around in circles faster than the average ferris wheel, so this needs to end.

If you love this community, then please stop telling us how to play. You don't sound like you love us at all, you sound like you hate us for playing the game differently than you want. You sound lonely because you think you're the only person who wants to play it like you do, which brings me to the next part of your post...

You are not looking hard enough. Every time I go anywhere to play my Bishop, whether it's Ulu or Skeles or wherever else, I ALWAYS find at least one low level player who asks if they can join my party because they want to grind. There are also smegas every single day of people looking for the exacty same thing. Before you say that it's because they see I'm a Bishop; they normally fall into the map and say "LF> Party I'm so and so job!" and cc away almost immediately because anyone who wants them will whisper, and anyone who doesn't will ignore them.

Now, we've all stated our thoughts on leeching and what it does to the game like ten times over. Unless someone has a new perspective to look at, this thread needs to be locked, because at this point the last six pages are "leech doesn't ruin the game!" "yes it does" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "no it doesn't". And I honestly feel like it's contributing to nothing at this point since, being honest to people who support removing leech from this game, it's never going to happen.

 

Odd, I had the feeling leeching happened more at high levels. I guess I can understand lower level leeching, even if I don't like it much. And, I ask for mercy for not reading the thread more thoroughly - it's pretty medium-sized

Whatever my stance on leeching is, the last thing I'd want is more rules - in this case, rules against leeching. Human societies are already obsessed with regulating everything with rules and laws like some deluxe kindergarten. Not that there's a movement to ban leeching (there isn't, right?), but just in case. Because my word counts for much, right?

 

Except it really isnt. The admins and GMs do not regulate us. As long as we arent abusing the game in a way that goes against what the game was coded for (like hacking) they leave it up to our discretion. Same goes for scamming. You may blacklist them and have people watch out, but there wont be a punishment because you CHOSE to trust them, so it's ultimately your responsibility.

Bottom line, leeching isnt against the rules and its already a huge part of the game. Like it or not its here to stay. If you dont like it, then just ignore it amd do your own thing.



Out of curiosity, how would you even enforce such a rule by the way?

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