Pay-to-Skip?

I'm not sure about my stance on changing the Zakum pre-quest requirements, but I am interested in hearing more about your thoughts on what should or shouldn't be "skippable" by paying mesos. (Especially since you implied that you have some degree of influence in the future direction of Royals.)

There are 3 "practises" or server-culture things that I feel are a bit "pay-to-skip" at the moment, and while I'm not too strongly bothered by any of them, I'd be a bit happier if they were modified in the new source. I imagine I feel somewhat similarly about these things as yourself and some of the previous commenters feel about making the Zakum JQ "skippable". I'll try to discuss my reasoning below (though if you don't have the time, please don't feel pressured to reply, I'm sort of just leaving feedback in the hope that people with power and influence read it, haha. Would also enjoy further discussion on this so hope other users reply with their thoughts.)

1) Many players (no statistics, but I'd estimate 50%+) acquire Z-Helms (and to some extent, Skillbooks) by paying mesos, well before they would actually be capable of contributing to any of the boss runs. I'm mostly uncomfortable with how prevalent it is for relatively low-level players to just "B> ZHelm service with HB" and acquire this sort of end-game content so early on, without having to interact with the boss(es) in any meaningful way. I understand that some classes have little to offer in terms of late-game bossing, and so would appreciate being able to pay-to-skip, but more commonly it seems that even those of classes which do have the potential to contribute more to boss runs (such as NLs or Bishops) opt to exchange mesos for an early ZHelm, before even hitting 3rd job. To me this seems very similar to the objections towards making the JQ skippable, with the main difference being the exact rules that Nexon ended up implementing. It feels like the original intent of making ZHelms untradable was the same as for forcing players to complete a difficult JQ: to make the item difficult to obtain. (Though that raises the question as to why they made the level requirement 50??)

I kind of just wonder whether most objections to making the JQ skippable is really just because we're used to this current set of "rules"; if the original GMS Maple had made the JQ a party quest and only one member had to complete it for everyone to pass, maybe we'd all be completely comfortable with it and we'd have people "S> Zak JQ service" on smega everyday?

Last note on why I dislike the current situation: Given how ridiculously good ZHelms are compared to every other Helm equip, and how early it's possible to acquire it, it has effectively made every other non-HP-washing Helm in the game almost completely worthless. Certainly the vast majority of my Helm drops can be more-or-less insta NPC'd. I think if ZHelms were less easy to "buy", we'd have more diversity for mid-game equips and a slightly more interesting economy.

2) Orbis ETC. Similar to the point above, I believe the exchange quests represent an unfortunate "pay-mesos-to-skip" feature implemented by Nexon. Some people have more patience/skill for training, while others have more patience/skill for gameplay such as bossing or JQs, I don't like how some challenging or tedious tasks (at least challenging/tedious for those who wish to avoid them!) can be skipped with mesos while others can't, since to some degree they are all barriers to "end-game content". After all, before you can even think about bossing you have to get to second job, I don't believe training should be thought of as any "lesser" or less note-worthy an accomplishment.

And to pre-empt the argument that those who use Orbis ETC need to have at least acquired enough money to afford it (and presumably trained to a high level with an earlier character), I'd point out that it's very possible to just vote for NX (only need lvl 15+ char) and then pay your way to lvl 30+ on your first character. It's also sort of like arguing that if a player has completed the Zak JQ once on one character, they should be allowed to "pay-to-skip" on their new characters. I think that experienced players already have more than enough of an edge to get through early levelling on new characters by merit of funded equips & knowledge about the game.

Again, it might be useful to ask whether we'd be comfortable with having some similar pay-to-skip method for Maple Island, for those who don't want to do the work of going from levels 1->8; are we only fine with Orbis ETC being in the game and pay-to-skip for Maple Island not being in the game because of what Nexon arbitrarily implemented? I think it'd be okay if that was the case, but if so, it would be important to recognize that the main motivation for changing or not-changing certain things was because of nostalgia and a desire to not alter the status quo, rather than legitimate opposition to pay-to-skip mechanisms. I believe it'd also make for a more consistent and satisfying response to those -- such as OP -- who want to make some things pay-to-skip: arguing based on preserving nostalgia as opposed to preserving "challenge" would be more difficult to find hypocrisy/fault with? (But then, I'm not too sure how many changes might already have been made on Royals despite opposition in the form of calls for "nostalgia", ks'ing and ~mapowner comes to mind, so maybe some people would still feel that administrators were unfairly and selectively applying a policy.)

After reading this, you can probably imagine that I'm also not a fan of leeching, but I know enough has been said about that elsewhere, so I'll move on... (it's also very possible that the other points I've raised have already been discussed to death, and in that case I can only apologize and use the excuse that I'm relatively new and trying to be constructive based off my limited experiences so far.)

Last downside I see with Orbis ETC is that it adversely affects new players who are looking for a more social experience when they first join the server. KPQ in particular is a great way for newcomers to make friends and interact with long-time members playing new characters. It probably won't get that bad, but if too many people start opting for Orbis ETC/leech there's the possibility that the early levels become overly-solitary and some potential Royal'ers get discouraged. Worst feeling is wanting to KPQ and chat, but then having to whack Bubblings on your own because Kerning City Ch1 is empty =/ . But yeah haha, I kid; I enjoy whacking bubblings. But I'm sure risk of not finding a party is why some people might end up going with Orbis ETC. It's sort of like a "tragedy of the commons" situation where everyone would have an easier time finding a party if no one opted out.

Anyway, there could be some risk of having KPQ too overcrowded if there were no Orbis ETC, but I think that'd be nicer than having it deserted. Again, newcomers would have more people to socialize with. The FM kind of sucks and isn't very interactive when you're new (and poor) because there's no real way to engage with other players in a gameplay sense outside of begging for items/mesos/leech, lol. (And just in case anyone misunderstands, I'm definitely not condoning begging for freebies, but I feel kind of sad when I see people doing it and wonder whether they're only doing so because the early levels and regular training isn't fun for them because of a lack of company, and so they want to get through it as quickly as possible.) To wrap up this line of thought, I think the server would be healthier if experienced members had a stronger presence in the earlier areas of the game; removing Orbis ETC might go some way towards achieving it.

---

I already wrote more than I intended to and need to go so I'll stop here, but these are the main things I hoped to talk about and get feedback on. Thanks in advance for your attention.

 

1. I certainly see and understand to an extent the issue you have with how easy it is to obtain a zhelm, but what would be your solution to this? Setting a level minimum for Zak battles? I do agree 100% with the idea that if GMS had made the JQ something party based, you would see people selling spots in a party as a service to those who can't/couldn't be bothered to do the JQ themselves.

2. That's an interesting proposal which I hadn't really considered before. I guess my primary issue with removing the Orbis ETC quest would be removing something that is, arguably, a core part of the game. What do I mean by that? The Orbis ETC quest is something found pretty early in the game that many players use as part of their levelling strategy. Is it a way to cut corners and level a mule faster than their main? Absolutely. Nonetheless, I see it as a third option to level early on (the other two being grinding/training and PQing and gaining EXP through them). Is Orbis ETC less social? Absolutely. But again, I feel with it being an inherent strategy, it would not be something worth removing.

To me it's kind of like Super Mario World where in 1-2 you can access the hidden part of the map to skip ahead several worlds. It is something that was clearly meant to be there by the creators of the game, and while the player cheats themselves out of the opportunity to play worlds in between, that's their decision to make. Likewise, choosing to do Orbis ETC instead of meeting new people via KPQing or grinding is their decision to make as well.

These are both great topics to discuss and I would be interested in hearing others' opinions. Please share!

 

You need those 60m and you need to survive a Z-run and do all the pre quests.
Easy would only be because there are many who can kill Zak, and how can a new level 50 afford those money? I blame the huge money gain from NX, and the extremely high equip drop rate.
If you copy paste CWKPQ to this server it will probably be like with Z-helms, but easier since they won't need to bring any pots.

I see Orbis exchange as a a way for new players to farm at other locations either to get a bit more exp or make some extra money, nothing wrong with that, just because players who can afford to buy them does.
There is no cheating, for a new player to make the money to get to 30 using orbis exchange would take more time than it would to get to 30 themselves.
It's not because of Orbis Exchange that there aren't many doing KPQ, it goes pretty fast getting past 30, the timer bug is an issue, I see quite often new players complaining on it and how they get kicked out.

 

Is it not possible to just raise the minimum level required to wear a Zhelm? I admit I don't know the first thing about how much private servers can edit, but that seems like it would be an easy enough fix.

I'm of two minds on the ETC quests. I definitely understand the desire to not have to deal with getting from 10-30 again when you're on your 5th or 6th character. But just paying your way to level 30 using absurdly easy-to-get millions is not at all what "nostalgic" MapleStory is to me (then again neither are leeching/HP washing/nigh-on-required statless characters, but uh one topic at a time, Soup...), and maybe paying your dues in a part of the game that still only takes a couple hours if you grind at a decent rate and do a couple quests isn't all that bad. So I guess in the end I'm ambivalent about them, there's not an easy answer.

 

Yes changing the level of a Z-helm is very easy to do.
Would be extremely unfair at this point for those at level 50 who will not be able to use it.

That's why you don't have to buy orbis etc, majority of people will not use that quest so it's not a problem at all.
HP washing is a luxury not a requirement.
For character builds it's the same as with all mmo's there is the best build and there is less good builds, MapleStory is very easy there is no right and wrong way to play, if you are having fun you are doing it right.

 

all of these were prevalent in gms also and have only just been reflected in the community its not pay to skip its alternatives that we have in game its nothing new to maplestory and i feel like altering that would just defeat the purpose

 

Speaking of pay-to-skip...
Let's say Kaede Castle gets implemented, would the NPC that allows you to skip the JQ via paying Jonin stars be implemented?
If yes, what would the drop rate of the stars be like? If I remember correctly, the drop rate for the stars was really low on GMS, when the area was first introduced, but would it be the same?
Would it be like the drop rate of the Christmas stars or Halloween candies from last year, or like Lunar Dews on GMS?

That Ghost House was hell

 

I feel like none of this is relevant in any way to the discussion at hand. Can we keep this thread on topic please?

 

I don't feel badly for people who were never supposed to have a broken hat at that point in time that have to wait a while longer before joining a party to kill Zakum. Even if they already have it it's not like it's a big deal, they're at worst out 4-5 days worth of NX farming. Like if HP washing is a luxury, what do you call blowing 60 mil to get this ridiculous hat 40-70 (who knows when Wizet intended people to be able to take on Zakum) levels early? I just don't see it as unfair to try to bring Zakum back to a place where everyone who is in the boss chamber is someone who is contributing.

The non-ECT stuff is outside the scope of the thread and I don't want this to get derailed, but the concern over it isn't just "people are skipping chunks of the game that are supposed to be played with their massive riches" but "people are doing that and it's depressing PCs in a pretty vital area of the game when you're trying to attract new players", which I think is a discussion worth having beyond just handwaving it saying that most people won't do it.

 

Blowing 60m on a Z-helms and 6b on HP washing is quite different, no matter if you see Z-helm as a luxury I can agree, you get a helm for something you can't kill, the helm is very good. What's the problem with people having access to it?
You want to make players who don't leech have a harder time killing mobs, why is that fair?

I don't use the Orbis ETC quest, and what I do instead is leech at bubblings/stirges, I can only speak for myself but it would require some hefty nerfes to many areas to force me having to grind at first job.

 

I can take issue with it because it was almost certainly never intended by the devs, as incompetent as they could be at times. I highly doubt that they were thinking "hey, in the future, we might make 4th job skills that render Zakum a joke to the point that level 50s will be able to chill during the battle and pay for the crazy good one-a-kill untradeable helm. this is good and exactly what we want to happen". And if everyone has to wait until 100 or 120 or whatever it would be changed to, that would be exactly fair. Unfair is what we have right now, where you either get your Zhelm at level 50 or immediately become suboptimal.

To be honest the fact that your personal solution to the ETC situation is basically the exact same as the quests but with a different label (and one that extends to the literal end of the game) is kind of worrying. It's a game about killing monsters and chatting with people. Why would you cut out one of two points this game has?

 

Because the people who choose that route already have friends and pq'd and all the fun stuff first time around. So they are killing monsters and chatting with friends they have already made.

It's like replaying a game. First play through, you don't know all the places where items are/the most effective way to get them. On your subsequent replays, you do so you can skip the boring, time consuming dead ends.

Secondly, nostalgic maplestory was not meant to be 4x either, but here we are.


Lastly, we are here to look at legitimate alternatives. If you plan to judge others for the way they play this game, then I will be forced to close the thread because no one should feel like they have to play one way. You cannot tell people they are playing MapleStory wrong just because it does not fit your ideal.