Hello! Overall I don't find too much to critique on in this server, I've been having fun. Though there is one thing I think could improve our Warrior Class experience here at Maple Royals, and that's fixing up Wizet's terrible formulas for Axes and BWs (Blunt Weapons)! You'll have noticed by now how neglected those weapon types are, Swords are superior in almost every way. Average damage output is higher, and they're faster. The only thing they lack is that extra 2 Weapon ATT that come with every same-level BW and Axe, which doesn't make it up for them at all. Now the real difference between Swords and Axes/BW besides speed are their Swing/Stab damage multipliers. There are 5 different normal attacking animations for all melee weapons, with 2 stabs and 3 swings. Now I've noticed this way back in my MapleStory days, and I'm sure you have too; When attacking with a BW, Axe, Pole-Arm or Spear, you'll notice that the damage is higher/lower depending on the attack animation. Swinging with an Axe/BW/Pole-Arm will do more damage than stabbing with them, and stabbing with a Spear will do more damage than swinging with it. I liked the implementation of this, it's logical! And with the logic continued with Swords, where in real life swinging and stabbing are both effective with a Sword, so in-game they have the same damage multiplier for all attacking animations. With this in mind, you at first would assume that in the situation of Axes and BWs, that they'd have a higher average damage output since there are 3 swing animations and 2 stab animations, but sadly the extra damage gained by swinging an Axe/BW compared to a Sword is left in the shadow of the excess of damage lost when stabbing with an Axe/BW compared to a Sword. "the difference between Two-Handed Swords and Auxes (Axes/BW's) slash-wise is 104% and stab-wise is 74%." "the difference between One-Handed Swords and Auxes (Axes/BW's) slash wise is 110% and stab-wise is 80%." (Reference: http://www.hidden-street.net/forum/threads/38151-Going-In-Deep-Swords-VS-Auxiliary-Weapons) With further calculations as-seen in the thread referenced, he confirms that the average damage of Two-Handed Axes/BWs are 8% worse than that of Two-Handed Swords, and One-Handed Axes/BWs are 2% worse than that of One-Handed Swords. It doesn't sound like too much lost, but considering that these weapons were intended to do more damage to make up for their lacking in speed, it goes to show how Wizet had failed pretty miserably in doing so. EDIT: Here are the average speeds for each weapon: One-Handed Swords: Fast (5), secondarily Fast (4) Two-Handed Swords: Normal (6), secondarily Fast (5) One-Handed Axes: Normal (6), secondarily Fast (5) Two-Handed Axes: Normal (6), secondarily Slow (7) One-Handed BW: Normal (6), secondarily Fast (5) Two-Handed BW: Slow (7), secondarily Normal (6). And here's a reference for how speeds work and what the differences mean: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=3217 Solutions? I wouldn't at all consider getting rid of the separate Swing/Stab multipliers that Nexon did in later versions of the game, I don't support throwing the logic of weapons out the window. To get Axes and BWs up to par as Swords is giving them a much better damage boost in comparison to actually make up for their slower speeds. Obviously we can't increase the base Wep ATT of all Axes & BWs, It'd be trouble for all players who already main those types of weapons as they'd have to find the better & newer updated ones, as well as it's just more work for the developers. The best solution I can think of: Increase the Swinging Damage Multiplier for both 1H and 2H Axes & BWs. I can deal with the fact that stabbing someone with an Axe or BW won't be very effective, but when I bash someone with a hammer or cleanly slice them with a giant axe, make the damage reflect it. Formulas: Max Damage Formula = (Primary Stat + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100 Minimum Damage Formula = (Primary Stat * 0.9 * Skill Mastery + Secondary Stat) * Weapon Attack / 100 Spoiler --One Handed Sword-- Primary: STR * 4.0 Secondary: DEX --Two Handed Sword-- Primary: STR * 4.6 Secondary: DEX --One Handed Axe/BW (Swinging)-- Primary: STR * 4.4 Secondary: DEX --One Handed Axe/BW (Stabbing)-- Primary: STR * 3.2 Secondary: DEX --Two Handed Axe/BW (Swinging)-- Primary: STR * 4.8 Secondary: DEX --Two Handed Axe/BW (Stabbing)-- Primary: STR * 3.4 Secondary: DEX For the two numbers highlighted in Red, increase those for the solution. If you're thinking "Hey! What about Pole-Arms??". I am unsure how to make them more viable as the main problem for them is skill-based. Dragon Fury (A Dragon/Dark Knight's main attacking skill) is all stabs while pole-arms are far less effective with stabbing, though of course do benefit with Pole Arm Crusher for the opposite reason. That I would leave up to you if you want to make a suggestion on how to make Pole-Arms up to par with Spears! Other than that, do you have any thoughts on the topic? Do you disagree? If so, point out the issue. Thanks! Other References: (https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-formula-compilation/ EDIT: Here's all mentioned other threads on the matter
There's already been so many of these threads... https://royals.ms/forum/threads/give-bw-axes-a-boost.50379/ https://royals.ms/forum/threads/suggestion-a-unique-1h-or-2h-axe-for-the-loyal-axe-users.21136/ https://royals.ms/forum/threads/final-suggestion-axe-change.22223/ https://royals.ms/forum/threads/balancing-axes-with-swords.41761/
Oh wow, I did search if there was any beforehand. No results came up. Edit: If it helps my case, none of the threads have mentioned any of the points made above. ._.
Putting the speed differences in perspective for you all: Fast (3) = 91 Attacks per minute Fast (4) = 83 Attacks per minute Fast (5) = 80 Attacks per minute Normal (6) = 74 Attacks per minute Slow (7) = 69 Attacks per minute Also remember that Booster will increase the weapon's attack speed by 1. So a Normal (6) weapon + Booser = Fast (5).
I strongly agree with this post. The swinging damage of axes/blunt weapons should be significantly higher. As far as Stabbing, sword takes the cake. It's logical. Nexon/Wizet didn't do this right, and because of it the weapons are really limited to swords because who in their right mind wants lower damage? This makes the price of swords dramatically high, and makes the price of Axes and Blunt weapons dramatically low. Not balanced. Just amp up the swing damage for AX/BW xD
Question. If paladin use Blast with blunt weapon (4th job skill), does it count as stabbing or swinging? I ask this because the Blast animation looks like stabbing.
Heroes already have the highest dps amongst warriors, there's no reason at all to buff axes, also, crushed skull is the highest attack weapon in game and 1h bw pallies have a higher dps than sword pallies
That has nothing to do with making them on par with the other weapons which is what he suggested, hes not saying make them op but he showed specific numbers with which you can work with to make them even with other weapons like swords and possibly more damage for swing attacks which is only logical. Not to mention pallies are the worst class in the game so that is pretty much irrelevant.
It seems that despite Blast only having a stab animation, it still takes into account the 3/5 chance for the attack to be considered a swinging attack. So nothing lost there. For the thread overall, I should point out that it's been mentioned that changing weapon multipliers won't be possible until they have created their own custom client. As stated by Karven here:
I think the addition of Terminus/Absolab/Sweetwater one handed and two handed BLUNT weapons isn't a bad idea. Yes those weapons are very powerful, but paladins lack range, mobility and dps to make full use of the power that the weapon has. You also wouldn't need to mess with speed values because the damage output would make up for it.
In addition to that, Paladins already have the highest dps amongst warriors (if using stackable charges) when using crushed skull
Do they? I will test this out on my offline pserver and confirm that then . Also terminus weapons look shexy, dun h8 m9
I think a good idea would be just to remove the stab animation with axes. Like why would you want to stab someone with an axe and not hack/chop o.o . I don't think it's even possible in reality to stab since axes have no sharp edges. This way axes will be a bit stronger than swords but slower so it's more balanced.
Not entirely pointless. Quite a few of the axes have a sharp pointy thing at the end. And if not that, you'd still be burrowing the tip of the axe blade into them. :0 Though you're right in the idea that it isn't an effective way to use an axe, or a blunt weapon for that matter.
Booster increases attack speed by 2 Also, Brandish and Blast are slower than the 1st job attacks, so the correct speeds for Brandish/Blast are: Faster (2): 95 attacks per minute Faster (3): 87 attacks per minute Fast (4): 80 attacks per minute Fast (5): 74 Attacks per minute Normal (6): 71 attacks per minute
Crushed skull is most definitely not a higher dps than swords unless you're using no equips other than a weapon.
I think spears should be just for stabbing and pole arm/BW/axes should be for slashing.I don't know why would someone try to stab with a hammer or something. Implementing this won't really change pole arms/spears (since the 3rd job skills have a default slash/stab animation) but will help balance swords and other weapons. They also won't be really too strong as swords tend to be faster than bw/axe. Crushed skull would be pretty strong but since the Paladin class itself is weak it balances it
