Okay, so right now I'm sitting at a Level 141 Paladin with Blast 30, however, I have NEVER eaten up all of my Daily boss runs. On a consistent basis, I am shot down from boss runs with the usual scenario being: "Can I join?" "Sure, job and lvl?" "141 Pally" The response is either non-existent, or they straight up say no. I can understand why this happens as I happily accept that Paladin is the weakest option to add to your party, and have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. HOWEVER, damage is damage and I don't think I'm completely dragging the party down, and I use attack potions to strengthen my self of course. There just seems to be some sort of constant stereotype out there that Paladins are complete cancer towards a party, and because of this I can never boss. Doing 1 Zak run in a day shouldn't be a gift from god himself, but that's just my opinion. I've tried looking for field bosses and probably waste like 13m or something like that on TP rocks just going around, with the most I've gotten being a singular Pianus. I grind at Oblivion and I kill large mobs of monsters quite quickly, but I still sit at around 1 level per 3 hours, not an exaggeration. Duos/Parties are rare, and more often than not, I'm shot down by THOSE as well because as we've established, Paladin is the Spawn of Satan. This is quite slow, and it'll only slow down the deeper I delve into levels. I'm always told to join a guild, and I've joined and left many, still with no luck. The guild members are either uninterested in grinding, Only do HT because everyone is level 170+, unqualified to fight the early bosses due to level differences, or are upfront and say themselves that they don't want to include me due to my job. I'm not changing classes, and it seems that the majority of Paladins get into runs quite quick compared to how things are going for me right now. I feel like I've hit a roadblock, and I don't want to be rude, but I don't care much to see "Train at X with these specific factors (that'll probably take 3 hours to organize) and you'll have to spend 5 minutes less grinding for a level". Pretty much everyone else is bossing and gains about 1 level per day at my level. So I need a way of levelling, or just any way that I COULD boss. I'm at the point of considering Sololing Krex despite the 7 hours it might take. There's some sort of shift in the community, and feedback from the current high levelled Paladins doesn't apply anymore. Thanks
I don't think the problem lies with the class itself being less efficient, but more with your friends not being good friends lol. Personally I may only have like 10-20 friends on my BL, but half of them are willing to grind or boss with my Paladin despite it being lvl 136. My advise would be to look for new and better friends that don't judge you for your choice of class
I completely agree with this and find it highly likely, however, when I smega or find other means of finding friends that will grind and boss with me, it always becomes a situation where they seem very willing to for the first week or so, then they're coincidentally busy whenever I need to grind/boss afterward. All of my good friends were in my level range when I met them on my Archmage, and haven't made new characters around my Paladin's level range. I don't really know, I have to find means of finding better people I guess. Also, to clear up confusion, I don't think Paladin is bad, I was being exaggeratingly pessimistic to fit in on my perspective of the general bandwagon of Paladin haters.
(For the record, I don't "hate" Paladins. I simply recognize the truth which is that they're one of the worst classes in .62 and that there's an objective reason why they are not very popular.) The simple fact is that, when compared to other classes, Paladin is not as good at taking down Zakum/Horntail/Krex/Papulatus. There are only two Zakum arms that are weak to an element, and the body itself is elemental neutral. This fact means that Paladin will do a lot less damage to Zakum overall and therefore be less efficient at killing it. Exacerbating this problem is the fact that the other two warrior classes have about three times as much range and have attacks which can target three arms at once, which Paladins fail to do. To put the nail in the Paladin's coffin, it's impossible to reach Zakum arm 2 (the top right one) without haste and jumping. Incidentally, the fact that Paladins aren't good at Zakum was the main thing which made me quit my paladin on an old, now defunct .62 server and create a hero. The lack of elemental advantages and the lack of multitarget attacks (i.e. brandish/crusher) means that Paladins simply can't do well on HT either. No elemental advantage translates to lower single target DPS, while lack of multitarget attacks translates to no AoE dps, giving Paladins the worst of both worlds. Of course, lack of elemental advantage means that Paladins are not great at killing Papulatus as well. I suppose Krexel is the only of the "Big three" bosses which Paladins excel at killing; Krexel 2 is weak to Ice, but even then... it's Ice, your weakest elemental charge. Part of what makes paladins so horrible in .62 is the fact that there is no boss which is weak to holy aside from Anego (and Kachu Musha, which Royals doesn't have). I haven't run the numbers, but I have a suspicion that Hero/Dark Knight will still out-dps, or in the very least, break even with Paladins on single-target krexel. And then you add in the fact that Krexel 3 has no elemental weaknesses... If Cecil Harvey lived in the Maple Story world and made the identical transformation from Dark Knight to Paladin that he did in Final Fantasy 4, he'd be a laughing stock. At the end of the day, Paladins just aren't that good of a class in .62, and part of what contributes to this is the unfortunate, unfair reality that they're not great at killing most bosses. If you are set on killing bosses, here's what I'd recommend: Headless Horseman is weak to lightning Bigfoot is weak to fire Pianus is weak to fire Anego is weak to holy Black Crow is weak to lightning Of course, the problem with these bosses is that they're limited by spawn time, rather than by daily quotas. Personally I'd advocate for straight up grinding instead of boss-killing, since grinding is actually Paladins' strongest point. Heaven's Hammer allows you to deal some decent AoE DPS once in a blue moon, while Advanced Charge + Rush allow you to maneuver all across the map while quickly disposing of monsters. On holy-weak enemies, Paladins actually have the best AoE DPS of all the warrior classes, believe it or not. Of the three warrior classes, Paladins are the best at training on Skelegons/Skelesauruses, Road of Regrets (pick your map, as all of them are weak to lightning), and Dreamy Ghosts. Their ability to mob and deal hefty AoE dps is, while nowhere near on par with that of a bishop or archmage, still formidable and superior to that of a hero or dark knight. So because of this, I'd really recommend playing to that strength. Capitalize on this fact and train on places where Paladins excel, rather than setting yourself up for failure by forcing yourself to Zak/HT/Krex. Training on Skeles/Dreamy Ghosts/Road of Regrets is quite a bit faster than fighting any of the bosses I listed above--even those which are elemental weak. And with the supply of bishops/priests on this server, your training would be even faster. But why do I have this suspicion that most paladins won't actually go out and train, and instead will just buy leech instead?
I think I zakked with you yesterday I honestly don't get why people feel the need to turn someone down because of their class...
I can see what you're talking about, and I do take your advice on leveling into consideration. However, then the matter becomes, why am I even playing if I'm just going to do the exact same thing for 200 levels (grinding)? From what I understand, you're telling me I'll essentially never be able to boss, but there isn't really any point to playing the character, and I find this untrue as I've seen Paladins on HT runs, most just don't make it that far. Also keep in mind that the charges aren't there just for the elemental boost, they give a general attack boost as well for monsters that are neutral toward the element you're using. Also, I fully agree with our weakness factor, but there are people that go on MAGE RUNS of all things that they could do for Zakum. Clearly, the community isn't entirely minded off finding the most efficient things possible and there are people still aiming to have fun. Also, I've mentioned that I'm talking about a recent problem, as noted by my comment about "Shift in the Community". Most High leveled Paladins that I've spoken to about leveling were easily accepted into boss runs, and there's just some exaggerated stereotype that has arisen. I am aware that this was a thread to get advice on leveling up, and I've received that, I just wanted to further on the fact that this isn't some age old problem (Not being accepted into boss runs), from what I've heard and seen in my time on this server.
At the end of the day, how is bossing all that different from simply grinding all day? Let's say that you train on Zakum and Krexel from 140 to 200. In that case, you're training on the same two monsters from 140 to 200. Compare that to grinding at Skelegons and Skelesauruses at the Dragon Nest Left Behind from 140 to 200. Guess what, you're still training on the same two monsters from 140 to 200. If you actually take a step back and think about the metaphysics of "fun" in this game, it's pretty absurd how we think any of this is fun. My stance is simply that, since Paladins are the best warriors at grinding and the worst at bossing, it's preferable to play to that strength and gain most of your levels from grinding. That's how I'd approach the class if I were to play it, but that's exactly why I prefer Heroes--Heroes have more options for leveling up. Part of playing any class or character in any game is recognizing its inherent strengths and weaknesses. Imagine picking up Luigi in Super Smash Bros Melee: your aim should be to capitalize on his unparalleled ground mobility, great aerial attacks, and potent punish game, rather than to try to create some new sort of projectile metagame out of him. You just don't play Luigi if your playstyle revolves around projectives (you pick Falco, Dr. Mario, Pika, or Peach instead). Paladin is similar. Don't expect to create a phenomenal bossing metagame around paladins when there are too many things setting them back from approaching the level of other classes when it comes to bossing. Yes, elemental charges give a % attack boost, but if you run the numbers, the unfortunate reality is that on an elemental neutral monster, even a paladin using his strongest elemental charge (holy) will still be out-dpsed by a hero or dark knight with comparable attack. The only time that paladin edges out in regards to single-target DPS is if the paladin has the elemental advantage. Needless to say, this issue is made even more lopsided against HT heads and Zak arms, where hero/dark knight can attack three at once, and where paladins don't get the elemental advantage. Of course I'm of a libertarian mindset in that I'm all for advocating playing whichever class you want and playing that class however you want; if you love the paladin class, then that's good for you, and I would encourage you to play it. My post here was meant to address your question which, to my understanding, pertains to why paladins are not considered that great for most of the bosses in .62 MapleStory. I'm just saying that from a utilitarian standpoint, paladins are not that great of an idea to have in HT/Zak/Krex/Papulatus, and I think this would explain a large part of why not many people want to fight these bosses with you. You should go ahead and fight them if you consider it fun, but I think you shouldn't really complain when there are clear and objective reasons why your class isn't that great at fighting these bosses. If your takeaway from all this is "oh, well, anecdotal experiences of some other paladins tells me that some people don't mind running with paladins," (which it seems to be) then I don't really have much more to say. Surely there will be people who are nice and will take their friends with them, or will take whoever on a boss run. In other words, there will of course be people who will take AMs/Paladins on Zak/HT runs, even though it's far from optimal; obviously, there are some nice people in this world. But from what I've seen of the Royals community, there are a lot of min-maxers and optimalists here who care more about the fastest and most efficient route to taking down a boss than anything else--this facet, coupled with the paladin's innate setbacks, is why I believe that you're experiencing the problems you are experiencing. All I'm saying is not to be surprised when people don't want to fight these bosses with you.
I've spent a large amount of time trying you find a way to reply with this, but I simply agree with everything you've stated. Discussion closed?
Hi there. Also being a 141 Paladin and reading all of this makes me feel identified, at least for the most part of it. But I think that Pleiades is also missing a point that those specific "big" bosses are also the source of income for many. I don't think you'll ever gain as much money grinding that you would bossing, and that's also an issue, if I could be leveling and at the same time winning some money, I'd rather do that or at least have an option, it's not like I'm a machine that can go hours doing the same, from every now and then it's cool to go bossing for the hell of it, to keeps thing fresh, but also as a source of income. Because it kinda should be up to me if I wanna do money bossing, gachapon or merching. In another note... I have on my mind (dunno why) that the new source content should bring stronger charges and/or combat orders that could change a bit the situation, maybe we'll have to wait for it. But in the meantime, wouldn't it be possible to make all paladin zRuns? (If we found enough people so we won't be spending a lifetime or maybe with 2 attackers or something like that) because we shouldn't just sit around and cry Cheers to everyone!
All paladin zakrun wouldnt be able to get past arms. They can't reach top right arm even while jumping if they dont have haste. One reason why they're unpopular.
If your sole goal in the game is to make money, then the logical choice is Bishop or AM. Surely, other classes can make money via other methods besides leeching/farming gobies, but they can't do it as efficiently. 0.62 has no new territory which hasn't already been explored in the past 8 years. With that in mind, I think it's fair that everyone should recognize each class's respective strengths and weaknesses since we've had all of 8 years to study them extensively. And like I said earlier, one of the Paladin's innate setbacks is that they're simply not that great at bossing; it's no secret by now, and it's especially apparent to anyone who's given an even cursory glance to this thread. Sure, you can be accepted to boss runs as a Paladin, but you're simply not going to be as good at it as Heroes or Dark Knights. If, like you say, having the option to excel at bosses while also being good at grinding was important to you, then the logical choice should have been Hero or Dark Knight. That's just how the classes are; I'm sorry that's how 0.62 is, but that's just how it is and that's the framework within which we have to work. To say that you want to play Paladin and want to be able to boss as effectively as Hero/DK is like going to a McDonald's and ordering fried chicken--you'll just end up disappointed.
I don't like to comment for the sake of it without adding any real content, but just wanted to point out that no one said otherwise about the Paladin pros and cons. Also, never mentioned anything like a "sole goal" or that "excel at bosses while also being good at grinding was important" to me. But I did mention "for the hell of it" and "to keeps thing fresh". I'll leave the conversation saying that it's okay to miss things, I don't mean to sound rude (?), have a good day PD: I don't know how does it taste like there, but chicken nuggets (that's chicken that has been fried) from McDonald's are insanely good here, so at least for me it's never a disappointment, haha!
This topic is very similar to the argument about AM's not being wanted for bossing. While AM's excel at killing high end mobs quickly with powerful elemental ultimates, it comes at the expense of meaningful single target dps and are weaksauce for bossing. Each class was designed to have certain strengths and weaknesses associated with them. Unfortunately Maplestory dev's forgot about classes like Marksman and Paladins as they dont actually do grinding, or bossing overly well. Not saying they're bad or horrible on either front, just they leave a lot to be desired compared to every other class. The dev's fixed both of these classes eventually, but it took way to fricken long. With that said, dont let players with lousy attitudes towards your class get you down. Leveling an oddball class like Paladin makes you a stronger person than most of us other players due to being able to grind out flawed classes. I have nothing but the utmost respect for any player who can level a Paladin or Marksman @Miika on this version of the game. Reaching high levels with flawed classes are insanely more awe inspiring than someone who can level on the easier classes ie Bishop or Hero
add my drk, sometime im looking for a training partner on it or my arch mage and ill gladly level with you
Paladins are the fastest at grinding among all warriors due to elemental advantages and a powerful mobbing skill (advanced charge) which also stuns, making grinding easier. Among a Paladin, Hero, and Dark Knight with similar equipment, Paladins will easily be the fastest at grinding. As for Marksmen, I agree that they're probably not that great at grinding, but the simple virtue of having Sharp Eyes makes them a huge boon to any boss run, even if their dps is below that of a Bowmaster. To which my response again would be that you're better off playing a Hero or Dark Knight, since you seem to desire multiple options for training. Paladins simply don't have those options, and it's no secret by now. Going into a class at this point, everyone should know exactly what that class's strengths and weaknesses are. Let's dispel with this fiction that Maplers shouldn't know what they're doing; we should know exactly what we're doing. We should undertake a systematic effort to learn about our classes before creating one, lest we be disappointed. That's why we have bbb.hidden-street, ayumilove.wordpress, mapletip, and all the guides by people like Plenty here on the forums. It's a systematic effort to educate us on a very important choice in MapleStory.
A little less than a month away post...but I think having an end-game niche for pally would help incentivize playing the class, in a practical manner. An example I can think of would be to give krexel's 2nd major form a weakness to lightning as opposed to resistance from all elements. The pally may excel past heroes in DPS with the change, but they are limited to their endgame boss niche. Notice that I did not say do this for all 3 major bosses. To refute a few counterpoints, in theory while several classes were meant to have non-bossing niches, the reality is that bossing and money-making/leeching niches are valued much more readily than others. This is mostly due to how closely the community is tied to these activities. In practical terms, this means that more classes should be tailored to fulfill a part of those niches in whatever way they can, and doesn't mean they have to completely overlap it either. Another point to refute (somewhat of a rant) is the banal idea that fixing the flaw with x or y would ruin the nostalgia of things in 0.62. While the server does have a purist charm to keeping most aspects similar to 0.62, and especially pre big bang, it should be noted that 0.62 had its own inherent flaws. We've seen how Mapleroyals developers have incorporated content from later versions up to 0.86, and it's really to improve upon the version itself. In terms of the argument for nostalgia, things such as "I enjoyed it when paladin's and other classes were terrible" are things that are low on the totem pole. Nostalgia is subjective, but it normally associates with a positive experience, rather than gameplay imbalances (latter example). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that although one of the server's main goals is to retain the beauty of the earlier Maplestory, another of their goals is to make the server and the gameplay as diverse as possible as well.
