Why aren't refunds given to hacked accounts?

Discussion in 'Closed' started by Mouthbreather, Jul 12, 2016.

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  1. Foxen
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    Foxen Donator

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    oh my goooooooooooooooooood i don't give a SHIIIIIT. He's an admin, let him have something from time to time, damn. I ain't saying it shoulda been done, but for fucks sake, who ACTUALLY gives a shit? The OP lost his stuff from his own lack of security. Secondly, he's an admin that has to deal with dumb shit like THIS discussion on an hourly basis and you're saying that as a volunteer, they can't take the occasional liberty. How about no, power comes responsibility withmaybeafewlibertieshereandthereaslongasthey'rereasonable. I don't see you trudging through hundreds upon hundreds of dumbass ban appeals and problems that 12 year olds can't figure out. If I was famous you bet your ass id be skipping lines at the bank cause i earned it. Again, in a perfect world, no, shouldn't have been done, and im not totally agreeing with what he did, but I AM saying that given the circumstances, he earned it. So quit being whining bitches about it.

    Furthermore, low staff count. If they refunded EVERY idiot for the stuff they lost because they can't handle random numbers and letters as their pass, nothing would get done, ever. Now if they had like 3 times the staff? I would 100% agree with you on this, but as it stands, you are being unreasonable.
     
    Foxen, Jul 16, 2016
    #21
  2. workteam
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    workteam Well-Known Member

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    He is not being unreasonable at all.

    What you describe is not how things are supposed to work.

    I find it hard to take you seriously though.
     
    workteam, Jul 16, 2016
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  3. Foxen
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    Foxen Donator

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    Alright, well, how about this. That's the way the world works whether you like it or not. You want a perfect world? Start with leading by example. Nothing's going to come from this. It's pointless to talk about.
     
    Foxen, Jul 16, 2016
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  4. Riuga
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    Riuga Active Member

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    I interpret what you said as "If you aren't a GM, don't criticize GMs". We don't have to experience being a POTUS to criticize Bush, Obama, and other presidents. If the populace did what you said, we would have a far worse USA for obvious reasons; which brings me to my second point: only a very select few can actually become GMs, so asking someone to "lead by example" ("be a GM") is a very out-there type of statement to make. In situations like these where "leading by example" isn't really feasible, this is the best we can do, and I dare say it is more effective than simply keeping our mouths shut on somewhat important issues like these.
     
    Riuga, Jul 16, 2016
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  5. liomio
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    liomio Well-Known Member

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    liomio, Jul 16, 2016
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  6. Foxen
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    Foxen Donator

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    You interpreted wrong. I've already said it wasn't right, but I'd probably do the same thing, I imagine most of us would when the cards were down. I want you to seriously consider these things. What you would do if your best weapon, probably a legendary went missing and you had the power to get it back to fix a wrong doing. Then you look at the other thousand people and realize that its wrong that they don't get their stuff back too. You're one person, what do you do? The obvious answer is that you don't tell people you've given it back to yourself. The perfect answer is that you give everyone's stuff back, which btw you can't do because you're one person. Personally I feel that the GMs earned it given the circumstances. Is it right?.... eh, maybe not. Doesn't change my opinion on it though because I would have done the exact same thing, just not told anyone.

    They don't have the personnel, so that means they're up shit creek too? Neither side of the coin seems fair, does it? I can't say that I defend the decision, but I can't piss all over it either. I'm a firm meh on the subject. I'm more angry at the accusatory outcry of "how dare they" than anything.

    And i didn't mean be a GM with leading by example i mean turn off the net and go out and make the world a better place.
     
    Foxen, Jul 16, 2016
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  7. Matt
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    Matt Administrator

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    The encryption is strong enough. Of course passwords can be bruteforced or rainbow tabled, but that requires a hacker to get access to our database first. And as expected; we have no evidence of any breaches having taken place as we have plenty of security measures to protect the database from unauthorised access. Like I said previously, we are confident in the knowledge that leaked information from other sources are being used by attackers to gain access to peoples accounts, yet we are still improving security where we can.
     
    Matt, Jul 16, 2016
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  8. Tim
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    Tim Administrator

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    I decided to shed some light into recent events regarding account hacking to make our decisions understandable. I'll put in some dates and times so you know how things went down along the line as well from my perspective:

    April 30th (saturday)
    - I went to look at some Royals stuff and I see that I have a bunch of messages from my guildmembers on skype regarding one of my friends' behavior in-game.
    - He let us know he wouldn't be home until sunday / monday on the wednesday so he wasn't expected to log in at all. He didn't reply to anyone and he left the guild so people were wondering what was going on.
    - I contacted him on skype and he says he it wasn't him, so I ban all of his accounts for precaution.
    - I check the logs and see that a different connection has been used to log in and some of the items on that character (his INT gear and a gun that he borrowed from me) were all traded away to another character, which I also banned for suspicious activity
    - I check previous similar cases, Christopher Chance's also came up, and Issued a refund based on how we did things in the past.
    - I relay information about potential mass-login attempts over in our admin chatgroup for further investigation.


    May 1st (sunday)
    Lots of threads and notifications of account hackings have been rolling in. We're actively trying to figure out what's going on with all these hacking cases and wondering if we have a leak somewhere. There's no trace of anything like that nor can we find lists on the internet specificly for Royals.

    May 2nd (monday)
    - More people are getting hacked. Transfers relate to someone that has been selling hacked items for CSGO items (which he can sell for real money)
    We're tracing down the login details that the hacker recently used and find that he's been inboxing people with the same IP address to get more info from them like skype contacts.
    - The person in possession of my gun claims to be innocent in a ban appeal, which after some checking turns out correct. He had been paying 7B mesos for that to various characters of the hacker. The hacker then traded him the gun on the 29th of april from my friends' account. The trade has been reversed and he has been unbanned.
    - Other internet searches result in really bad attempts at phising sites / supposed downloadable 'item generators for mapleroyals' which we doubt anyone fell for.
    - At around 13:30 server time we compare results and notice a trend of similar Forum IDs to Game IDs or similar character names to Game IDs. We realize atleast part of the problem has something to do with poor account security which explains why not everyone is being hacked/ our database has no traces of being leaked.
    - I propose making an announcement post with the following information to remind people about account security:
    • Telling players not to use the same account ID/ password for forum and game
    • Telling players not to use an easy password similar to their login ID
    • Offering players to pm an admin if their forum ID is the same as their game ID so we can change it for free for them
    - Other admins point out that the effectiveness of such warnings degrades if we do them too often and holding the players' hands in these cases is not something we should do, the post idea is scrapped after some discussion.

    - At around 17:30 server time we start discussing how we will deal with refunds regarding the hacking cases that are related to poor account security from that point onwards.
    - I point out that I have refunded some people between the 30th of april and may 2nd by reversing trades from sales of hacked items for some people, one of which is the first case that came to light, the one with my friends' INT gear and the gun he borrowed from me which was purchased for 7B by someone that was unaware that my friend was hacked and he thought he landed a good deal. The guy that purchased it got his 7B back and my friends' account got his equipment back that was sold by the hacker. This was not the only trade reversal of hacked characters that I did in that timeframe.
    - The action is approved by other Admins.
    - At this time the decision is also made that all cases of poor account security will not be eligible for refunds anymore because we pinned down that the problem is largely their own fault and our database is still secure.

    May 3rd and onward
    - Discussions regarding new security to prevent cases from this happening have been had and recently been implemented with the PIN system that should only bother people slightly that play from different IP addresses.
     
    Tim, Jul 19, 2016
    #28
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