"Grey line" between bannable and non-bannable glitch abuses

pretty sure that is working as intended? even if it wasnt how would you avoid it? heros and paladins would not be allowed to use pg?

 

Nope Power guard worked only on physical damage in the official version so this is clearly a glitch.

There are only 2 ways - dont use pg (like they would say a glitch abuse) or fix the damn code.

 

Fron what I can remember from gms, power guard reduced damage received in general. Not just touch damage. It also says nothing about only reducing touch damage in the skill's description.

 

Pretty sure all damage reduction skills prevent 1/1 attacks anyway. For example, a Hero with 30k would get hit for 29999 x 0.6(PG) x 0.85(Achilles 30) ~= 15.3k.

 

It is weirdly written in the description but its only physical touch dmg.

Ever wondered why shadowers are the true seduce mules?
Because they were only class to survive 1/1 attacks because of meso guard.

These 2 videos should be more than enough of a proof for the power guard dmg.





For the blind people: Power guard is active but he still gets hit for his maximum health.

 

I see his HP go down from 12.5k to 7.5k which is in line with the 40% damage reduction from Power Guard.

Meant 60% of the original damage taken.

 

in royals you would also see yourself taking 29.999 dmg if you were at 30k even though you wont end up at 1hp, and other players will see the 15k dmg you were actually taking.

 

Sorry but power guard is 40% and he dropped down to 1hp and used honsters 60%hp pot with the pet because his mp stays at 1 (check the screen) if you need more evidence i can spam you with videos all day.

 

I used to have a Hero on GMS Pre-BB. And I also recall being 1/1 even with Power Guard. I did a solo Zak once, i'll try to find footage of that to see if I remember correctly.

Edit: quality from pre-bb run is crap and i can't see weither I get auto-potted or not. but my HP stays at about 60%. but that might as well be from the ales that give 60% recovery.
I did do another run however post-BB, there i dont have a pet and can clearly see HP decreasing to 1/1 after the attack. and it remains so until after potting.

 

Stop talking about PG. It's not relevant at all to the grey line between bannable and non-bannable glitch abuses. Edit: With regard to the topic of this thread, which concerns HT and BF.

Agree, everyone does the HT glitch does it because it's normalized. Also agree, there's no crackdown on the people abusing it. So we return to the question of why. I've also never heard of anyone being banned for the HT glitch. And I've also never heard of anyone being reported for the HT glitch because it's so normalized. We all know that staff members who go on HT runs with us on their legits do the HT glitch too. So it goes unsaid that the HT glitch isn't bannable. The reason for that though seems to be something like "everyone does it." Which is exactly why we need clarification on what's bannable and what isn't because some glitches like the HT glitch are obviously okay and expected to be abused. Why aren't bannable glitches public information?

But some people were glitch abusing without knowing it was glitch abusing. This is the issue. There's a lack of information and this needs to be changed. Some people legitimately thought that the HS glitch was a game mechanic. Only now has it been clarified that the HS glitch is bannable glitch abuse. I strongly disagree with staff policy that players should just use common sense about glitch abuse is. This is why I have stated that I will not report players for glitch abuse when they didn't knowingly, purposely, intently commit glitch abuse. I find banning players when they had only good intentions to be very, very unfair. Especially when the common sense we are told to use when determining what's glitch abuse and what's not tells us that the HT glitch is obviously glitch abuse but for some reason, the HT glitch is not bannable.

I agree that glitches should be fixed. But it's not always possible. There's only so much staff and so much time they have. Also, to my understanding, the HT glitch is client-sided and cannot be fixed with a SC, patch, or change to the source code. I also agree that any and all glitches should be bannable. This would clarify glitch abuse rule ambiguity going forward. But I still want an explanation for exactly why the policy now is the way it is. How does staff justify that the HT glitch is okay but the BF glitch is not?

 

Like Akira said, I started this thread as a way to get feedback from the people that ultimately make the decision (aka Staff) on whether something is banworthy or not when comparing two seemingly equivalent glitches (from both mechanical and benefits-accrued standpoints). So far there has been some good discussion on what the issues are with the haziness in determining what is and is not bannable, but it would help to see some other opinions aside from Andreas (thank you for responding and sharing your thoughts). Obviously, it'd be painstakingly difficult (and probably not very useful) to list every single known glitch in-game in the ToC, separated into "legal" and "non-legal" glitches. But it would definitely help to see some of the common, well-known and regular-use glitches that do create unfair benefits to players.

I don't think the discussion on PG is totally unrelated to the theme of glitch abuse - if it does indeed work differently from how it should, I think it's fair-game for discussion. However, as I stated before the main goal of this thread was to clear up the grey area between similar glitches, and the PG glitch (if it is indeed a glitch) doesn't really compare well with BF or HT wep cancel. I'd totally support another feedback thread on that discussion, but it seems a bit off-topic here.

 

if hs glitching was part of the mechanics then wouldnt everyone give advice about it, since this has been around since forever and a lot of people knew about it. There has even been an announcment thread about this issue a long time ago where they vaguely stated that anyone who tries to use this sort of thing will be banned. (vaguely obviously because they didnt want to give too much info away about how its done.)

 

If there was an announcement thread about the HS glitch, then the bans for the HS glitch are justified. I have no problem with the HS glitch bans. I have a problem with why the HT glitch is okay. Does this mean that the HT glitch is part of the mechanics? Because everyone gives advice about it? It's also been around forever and a lot of people know about it.

 

There is nothing to be secretive about here

The hs glitch is part of the party exp mechanic: when a monster is first hit, it is kind of designated as that party's, and the leech exp will be attached to that party. when you kill a monster you get the exp from the monster based on the % of damage you dealt. The boosted exp is due to the 99% of damage you do + the party exp that has nowhere else to go except to the higher level character since the other character is under leech level. The reason that you get 50% of the exp you would get from killing a monster regularly when you hit a monster once while leeching can also be attributed to this.

Imo, a glitch like the bf freeze or the ht weapon cancels are more severe since for the bf glitch you kind of put the bf into a "saved state" by entering and exiting the cash shop and with the horntail weapon cancels you hit a certain point in the map where the monster will "refresh" itself

 

i would also argue that its part of the mechanic i have no clue if its intended or if it used to be that way in official servers, with horntail I am pretty sure that this is not intended mechanics nor did it work on official servers.

i remember there being an anouncment about party exp glitching where they mentioned that what we refer to as "hs glitching" is a banable offence. https://royals.ms/forum/threads/clarity-glitch-abuse.32676/#post-185282
after reading this we could also discuss wether its allowed to go ht on your 200 then leave party to let the rest of the party gain more exp or even hsing party but not leeching. as i said the statement is really vuage but it came around a time when a lot of people knew about and were abusing the "hs glitch"

the issue is knowing what is intended mechanics and whats not since its been a whole lot of years since we last played official servers and maybe never even tried the same content as we are playing on now.

 

The way i see it, removing HT cancels being allowed makes sense because it can be hard to avoid sometimes, and it could accidentaly happen. I see plenty of reasons to go down to the bottom of HT during a run. Buffing someone, healing the sed mule, being seduced and killing wyverns are some reasons to go down, which would remove the cancels even if that wasnt the intention with going down. According to liomio's post you perform the bf glitch by entering cash shop, which i dont see a reason to do other than to perform the glitch. If someone really wanted to go look for a new outfit in CS they couldve easily waited untill after the BF or have left the map before entering CS. Im not saying that the people who remove cancels at HT dont to it intentionally, but i am saying it would really suck if it was made bannable, because it can easily happen accidentaly which would make HTing really suck. imo.

 

Good point. But the issue remains when I rephrase the question as such: why is the HT weapon cancel glitch during preheads not bannable but the BF glitch is?

There's no legitimate reason to do the HT glitch during the first and second preheads. Except for the sed mule, of course.

 

This may be the case, but there's no other reason for attackers to suddenly leave the top platform for either Head A or C aside from negating wep cancel. The cancel is character-specific, so a mage moving up and down has no impact on attackers' weapon cancels. Especially for Head C, attackers need to go out of their way and jump off the platform to the right in order to negate the wep cancel - the likelihood of it occurring "by chance" is quite slim.

 

There is a reason to move down to clear dark wyverns and buff the bishop/sedmule or just getting knock backed off for not paying attention.