As of now people can use ~mapowner to hold multiple maps with one character and as far as I know this is allowed. If you were to hold multiple maps on different characters its not allowed. I don't see any reason why one person should ever be entitled to own more than one map at a time. I don't think I need to go too indepth on how abusable this really is since there recently was another feedback thread with similar topic, where it was decided to nerf lyka but the problem regarding mapowner still remains. A solution to the problem would be to make it against the rules to hold multiple maps on a character, how ever I don't think thats a good solution, it would just result in more difficult, annoying, reports and bans. There is a way to ultimately fix the problem by remaking the ~mapowner command, so that it doesn't allow for a character to own more than one map at a time. It would work much like the current mapowner command except when you attack in a new map you don't keep the mapowner of the previous map for 3minutes instead you lose the mapowner in the previous map as soon as you gain mapowner in another map. In addition it could be made so that maps that don't spawn mobs is not allowed to own that way you can attack all you want when you go to town for npcing or into fm for buffs and still not lose your map. Low level fire mages might grind utilizing multiple maps at once, if they want to do that they can go to a less populated area. They shouldn't need a boosted map if they're going to use multiple maps anyways and theres so many maps that no one ever use. I've heard people say that fp has one of the easier lowlvl grinding eitherway because they use multiple maps. Giving a small early game nerf to an already good class wouldn't be a big deal. I can't come up with any reasons why this sort of mapowner command shouldn't be a thing, if anyone else do please let me know whats the problem with it.
The whole point of the 3 minute buffer is to allow players time to repot/sell items/ bathroom run. While it can be infuriating from how you feel it's not a broken system. Why lose your ownership if you happen to be in a high level area for example temple of time. You're a high level passing through and hey it's a dodo. Should you lose your ownership because you saw a free easy boss? No. However I do believe mapownership should only be available in the channel that you're in. So if you leave your current channel and go to the next then you should lose all rights. Other than that I see no issue with the way it currently stands.
I dont think it will hurt 3rd job f/p mages. Back when i was 3rd i did most of my grinding at petris, which is a big enough map to not need two channels. The other popular map to mist grind at is the first skele map, which is so unpopular that i dont think its ever gonna be full to the point where a mage can't use two channels.
Yes, you should lose map ownership if you decide to shift your focus to something else. If you choose to hunt the boss, you're deciding for yourself that it's more important than your grind session. So yes, your map should go up for grabs.
Fair enough I never said that theres anything wrong with 3 minute buffer though. now you're not npcing or at the bathroom anymore. Why not extend the 3minute time to 5hours too so we can go ht and do our dailies while we're at it... yes, you decided to stop and kill a boss you should no longer be entitled to the map where you previously was mapowner in. I don't know wat ToT map you're in if you can't find an empty channel anyway. So basically when you cc at vodoos to go npc you will lose your map? I thought npcing was one of the reasons why theres a 3min limit to mapowner. edit: The reasoning behind the mapowner command is to get rid of ksing, the 3 min limit is not there for people to take 2min 59sec breaks its not there for restroom visits. its simply just there so that you wont lose your map as soon as you stop hitting. When they made it they decided that 3minutes was a fair limit before your map should be up for grabs I doubt it had anything to do with the time it takes to npc or visit the restroom(do you even have time to wash your hands in less than 3minutes?) What you're doing during the 3minute intervall doesn't concern me as long as you're not actively killing mobs in another map/channel, thats the point with this thread. One should not be able to both kill bosses in one map while still having their grinding map on hold or kill a boss in one map while having 3 other boss maps so on. This didn't use to be an issue but lately I've found multiple people guilty of abusing the mapowner to camp multiple boss maps at once. Thats why we need an updated ~mapowner command.
I don't think the ~mapowner system itself needs to be changed, just add a rule so that if someone is caught holding multiple boss maps they'll be banned. People who actively hold multiple boss maps are the ones who care about the game and won't risk getting banned over something like 5%. It's easy to tell when someone is holding multiple maps because you'll constantly see them cc back and forth, flash ~mapowner and recite the T&C. But if we were to change it, one idea I'll suggest is when you type ~mapowner it resets the ownership of all the other channels you own. You're not suppose to own every map you check by channel surfing to begin with so say you find a boss in ch7 and someone else enters your map, you'll obviously type ~mapowner to let the other person know it's your map, but in doing so you now lost ownership of all the other channels you unintentionally gained by channel surfing, giving other players the chance to grab them if a boss do spawns there. If you're holding 10 bf maps and a bf spawns in 1 of the 10 channels, you'll only be able to keep 1 of them if you decide to ~mapowner. This wouldn't hurt players grinding in regular maps like skeles or ghost ship because players there will settle for 1 channel after finding an empty 1, they don't go around channel surfing with the intention of holding more than 1 map. This also doesn't change what ~mapowner was originally designed for, to prevent ksing.
I've had to have guildies and buddies hold my map for me when I use the restroom, no way is there a restroom break allowed in 3 minutes, (my bathroom is 1 floor above me so just to get there takes at least 30 seconds)
You're wrong people who hold boss maps arent generally the people who have a good reputaion on the server, they don't care if its bm to hold multiple maps they just know if they have mapowner they are entitled to the map and they can have you cc or report you for ksing and ultimately have you banned. If they don't care about their reputation they probably dont care about getting banned either atleast thats what we've seen so many times in the past. Have you thought about the massive pain in the ass of gathering evidence of someone who is holding multiple maps at once? While it might be easy to tell if somone is holding multiple maps its not that easy to prove it. One would need to have fail safe proof that doesnt allow for any loop holes where you can ban someone for ccing into the same channels over and over which is not and should never be against the rules. valid proof for something like that would have to consist of multiple ss of this guy telling you to cc in different channels in a short period of time or him admiting to holding multiple maps (which will never happen). It literally wouldnt work. scenario: person a goes to ch1 and 2 looking for manon person b notice that person a is holding 2 maps. person b takes screen shots of person a going in and out of both maps. thats all the evidence youre going to get unless person a literally admits that hes holding both maps. Nothing happend thats against the rules they just channel surfed which is one of the two main strategies of finding bosses, you either channel surf or you camp. The issue is that if person b wants to camp in one of the two channels he should be able to get mapowner so that person a dont come back once manon is spawned and lawfully kill manon. This doesn't solve anything its a version of the solution i already pruposed but it leaves loopholes that can be abused in the same fashion as mapowner command is currently being abused. From the previous scenario above what with your suggested ~mapowner reset once you type it out. person a can literally hold both maps and then use ~mapowner once the boss is spawned and still get away with killing the boss. Who cares if theres someone in your boss map when the boss isnt there, the only thing that matters is having mapowner once its spawned. In what way do you think that my original proposal changes the way ~mapowner is preventing people from ksing?
The idea someone is allowed to hold ownership of multiple channels of the same map goes against the the ideal of Mapowner, and the entire servers purpose IMHO. We're here to have fun, sharing is part of what binds a community together. Being selfish enough to try holding down a single boss to yourself, or to a select few friends, just doesnt sit right with me.
Let's use your scenario as an example. > You're channel surfing for Manons in ch1-3 > Manons spawn at the same time in all 3 channels > You decide to kill the Manon in ch1 > Someone else who's also hunting for Manons comes into your map and starts attacking thinking it's his > You ~mapowner and let him know it's not his but in doing so lose ownership of both ch2 and ch3 > He leaves and goes to ch2 and takes that Manon instead which used to be your map prior to checking ~mapowner in ch1 but is now his > If a 3rd person appears he'll be able to take ch3 after seeing both ch2 and ch3 are occupied By the time you finish killing the Manon in ch1, you've already lost the other Manons. Even if you and 2 other people are all competing for a Manon in ch1-3 by channel surfing, you would each get 1 Manon which is the best case scenario. Player A uses ~mapowner in ch1, losing both ch2-3 leaving Player B and C with those 2 channels, then Player B uses ~mapowner in ch2, leaving Player C with ch3. With our current system whoever attacks in all 3 channels first gets them all, so long as that person is able to refresh ~mapowner every 3 minutes. Neither Player B or C are able to kill the Manons in ch1-3 if Player A plays it correctly. Both our suggestions are similar except yours depend on attacking to reset map ownership whereas mine depend on typing ~mapowner to reset map ownership. The reason I suggest typing ~mapowner to reset map ownership is because when you type ~mapowner it's making a very clear statement to the other player in your map that "yes this is my map and I need you to leave BUT I have nothing to do with the other channels and they're up for grabs".
the problem is that what you're suggesting is as flawed and abusable as the current version of mapowner if not even worse.
OP after reading a lot on this issue I want to know the specific encounters you've had that made you decide to write about this topic. What did these people do, what map? And why is it an issue? At the moment I'm confused and I wish to understand what circumstances people would do this in. Clarification is key to get your point across.
I agree it's not a perfect solution nor anywhere near one, I just thought of it on a whim. But if there're obvious flaws to what I'm suggesting that I'm not seeing I'd like to know what they are.
So there was another thread with similar topic recently but it was purely regarding lyka maps, they decided to nerf lyka. I have not been playing much for like a month only recently did i get back to playing and while hunting for manons cry I've seen this problem occuring a few times where 1person would go in and out of 3 channels and telling me to cc if i stayed in any of the 3 channels he was moving through. This is clearly not the way ~mapowner is intended to be used and thats why i decided to give this feedback. example: I kill manon in 20sec~ someone comes into my map I have no reason what so ever to use the mapowner command to get them out of there since 1. Its almost dead 2. I did most dps hence getting the drops 3. i would lose ch2 and 3 mapowner !? 4. if he were to report me for ksing the report is not valid unless theres a ss of current mapowner. 5. you can proceed to kill ch2 and 3 since you attacked in both of those maps less than 2minutes ago. example2: i killed manon in ch1 no one came into my map hence no reason what so ever to use ~mapowner. i proceed to channel 2 becuase i still have mapowner there now theres a priest there but i just ~mapowner then tell him to leave hence only people who are getting ksed outdmgd by a stronger higher level player would ever use ~mapowner in this map. if i may ask you whats your reasoning about making a different suggestion in the first place? was there something wrong about my original suggestion?
There are many scenarios where a person would need to or happened to have changed channel. E.g. You got disconnected and reconnected on another channel (which happens rather often), someone smega she/he is casting echo in another cc, you need to go back cc1 fm to reset your shop, get buffs like SE or HS from a friend in another cc i.e. killing a boss (also, in Anego map you can't leave the map using nearest town scroll, you have the change channel), the list goes on and on and on.. I don't think simply changing channels should negate a person's previous map ownership.
You would need to attack on the other channel to receive map ownership of it so as long as you're careful you'd be fine
@Hampa Those are fair criticisms but remember that Manon was just an example, every other relevant bosses wouldn't suffer from this problem because they take longer to kill. I have nothing against your suggestion, in fact I think it's a great idea, I just don't see the point in going with the flow when most people are already agreeing with, it doesn't generate any new perspective or add anything to the discussion.
I don't think the ability to lose a map should be bound by a keystroke like a spacebar with an attack skill attached to it. Players shouldn't be losing maps because they had accidentally pressed a button. There has to be a justification for it, and right now, the 3 minutes delay is irrefutable, at least for grinding maps but certainly not boss maps. The purpose of ~mapowner is to prevent conflicts of who "owns the map", if players could lose a map because they had accidentally pressed a skill while on another channel or map, then it'll just lead to more grieving and blame pointing. I've seen people cycling 3 channels of manons probably because they have timers, and there is a certain degree of abuse in there. There are even times, where I found a manon, and people will come in and randomly type "~mapowner", my guess is they were hoping they were still the mapowner after probably cycling through all 14 channels, I don't think this should be how ~mapowner works, not for boss maps.
I don't understand how people accidentally press buttons in other maps? When you are in a map grinding/waiting for a boss to spawn you do not run to other maps and attack, if you do then you are not suposed to be mapowner anymore. People think that current mapowner is good becuase it allows for so much playroom where you can basically go around do what ever you want for less than 3minutes then come back and the map is still yours. How did people decide who was ksing who in mainservers when there was no ~mapowner, you literally had to be in the map you couldnt walk around in fm for 3minutes then come back and say oh i was here 3min ago this map is mine. I also mentioned that maps like fm/town maybe shouldnt be affected by mapowner since a lot of people use fm to get buffs while grind or town to npc even though i personally believe this to be unnecessary i figgured people would have the same concern as riv "accidentally attacking" in these maps. Theres nothing wrong with cycling channels to find bosses, the problem is that when you do so you also gain mapowner of multiple maps and if someone spawn a boss there while you're gone the person cycling can still get the boss which is not how it should be. Also theres some people who are cycling channels and try to push you out if you try to camp in one of the maps he is cycling and the rules allow for him to boot you out of all the 3channels he has mapowner in and if you dont leave he can report you.
