Hi, I was reading the report abuse thread and found a few contradicting posts and would like some clarification on why the outcomes have not been consistent. In some recent cases, people are being hit with rude comments and profane language. After filtering through the report abuse thread, I found some cases that dealt with reasoning and/or outcomes that do not align with the outcomes of older cases that are similar, if not, exactly the same. Which brings me to my question, to what degree does "Engage in rude, unlawful harassing, vulgar, obscene, hateful, threatening, abusive, or otherwise objectinoable behavior" become apparent to rule #5? Rule #5 under Game Use & Restrictions: “Engage in rude, unlawful, harassing, vulgar, obscene, hateful, threatening, abusive or otherwise objectionable behavior, including, without limitation, looting, kill stealing, making sexual comments; Punishment: 1st offence - 3 day ban, 2nd offence - 7 day ban, 3rd offence - permanent ban” [First Case] https://royals.ms/forum/threads/inappropriate-behaviourand-foul-personality.82414/#post-431001 This player was minding his own business, then a random player comes in and insults him. As such, he felt that is was rude enough to post on the fourms, in order to teach this person a lesson. However, he was told by the a gm that while it may be rude, it wasn't enough to be considered harassment. From my point of view, I thought that being rude and using profane language falls upon rule #5, yet the punishment for those actions were not given. [Second Case] https://royals.ms/forum/threads/offensive-language.82403/ The context of this case can be twisted around a bit. Still, being told to "f*ck off" is rude and considered profane language. From my point of view, Big Foot still had a decent amount of HP left and ownership, which is enough time for the mapowner to properly explain the T&C behind KS'ing, instead of using vulgarities as an attempt to ward off a player from the map. As such, the punishment for using rude and profane language was not dealt with in this case as well. [Third Case] https://royals.ms/forum/threads/intimidation-for-free.82343/#post-432145 Context of what happened before hand was not given in the screenshots so basing off from the details Sawngo initiated the altercation. This person is insulting someone who isn't native to English speaking. Even though the victim stated there was no need for being called an idiot, the attacker ruthlessly continued to provide reasons on why the victim deserved that label. In response, the victim is claimed to have escalated the situation by retorting, calling the attacker an idiot in French. Yet all GymTrainer said was saying with his logic he would be an idiot if he tried speaking in French. However, it doesn’t amount to the continual harassment and degrading comments prior. Comments like “imbecile” and pretty much implying because of his inability to present proper grammar, he discredits his intellect despite the victim being native in French instead of English. Based on the upcoming reports below, I believe that the cases I have presented above do not present themselves consistent in the outcomes and are decided based on personal discretion rather than objectivity to the rule. Here are cases where punishments were given. https://royals.ms/forum/threads/offensive-language.82246/ Due to the missing screenshot, I'm still using this because I remember it. The person was using inappropriate language and kept harassing when told to stop. A 3 day ban was given for offensive language. https://royals.ms/forum/threads/foul-language.75071/ In this report he received a message from a guy in his store. It is rude and insulting. That player that said that rude comment was given a 3 day ban for using profane language. https://royals.ms/forum/threads/daggerpang-harassment.81789/ Here is one where the poster is being called names and told them to stop bothering them. That person refused and kept going. He was then banned for 3 days. From these cases I want to know why the first three cases were dropped, while the last 3 were instantly given punishment. I wonder then, were the outcomes of the first 3 cases contradicting the rule based on the last 3 cases or vice versa? So it raises the questiopn, what is the threshold that a perpetrator must exceed for their vulgar actions to be given punishment under the 5th rule? Can someone please clarify if objectivity is even needed to handle these reports or are they simply based on GM’s discretion on what is consider “rude, unlawful, harassing, vulgar, obscene, hateful, threatening, abusive or otherwise objectionable behavior”? Please and thank you for reading this extensive post. TLR people didnt get banned for being rude and using profanity first 3 cases didnt get the ban last cases did Wondering what is considered ban worthy if being attacked verbally small or large scale, words do hurt.
I think an important factor is that in the cases that people got banned, people were told to stop but continued. I also believe in most of the cases a personal insult is taken more seriously than a comment like f off.
Please Note: I don't speak for the staff. The points I mention in my post are from a history of observing past reports. Long story short, you're right. Rudeness and profanity alone don't get you banned. They can however, seal your fate. The only other thing to consider is that the GMs don't always discuss a report. If they feel a report is clear cut, they will decide what happens themselves. If a player feels that their decision is unjust, they can post a thread in the Ban Appeal sub-forum. Not Banned ------------------------------------------------------- 1. Player was not being harassed and didn't attempt to resolve the situation himself. These types of reports are considered the most petty and are usually ignored because people assume all you have to do is post a thread and expect the GMs swing their banhammer. 2. Same scenario as #1. The whole "I'm right, you're wrong" argument between players only irritates both parties involved and doesn't resolve anything. Just describe the situation to the other player, politely ask them to leave to avoid conflict, and if the person continues to break the rules, then you screenshot the situation (with the appropriate evidence) and post it on the forums. 3. Clearly the OP had the option to stop whispering and/or block the other person, but chose not to. Instead, she decided to continue the conversation. While rude, the person being reported was not harassing the OP. In fact, this is one of the cases where both people involved are at fault. The other person could have just as easily claimed harassment against the OP. Insulting a staff member because you're unhappy about a decision they make also doesn't help your case. Banned ------------------------------------------------------- 1. Without the screenshot, no one can visualize what's really happening, hence the importance of proof. However, you mentioned that the OP asked the offender to stop, which is a key factor to how staff members approach the situation. 2. While this report isn't as explicit as the others, you will notice that the person being reported is a repeat offender. It is a clear case of harassment. In his first report which you can find in the thread you linked, there is a good example of how you should handle a KSing/harassment report, minus the "I'm reporting you" bit. The ending comment before he left the map is what solidified his ban. If he left the map without leaving those remarks, he would not have been banned. 3. The staff take racist/sexist remarks very seriously. Discrimination and praising people like Hitler in a public area such as the FM, popular training maps, or event maps will get you banned. There is also an autoban feature in place if you attempt to smega these types of things as well, but it doesn't always catch you. Swearing in general isn't that big of a deal here, but when you direct it towards other people, it is very toxic behavior that the staff won't tolerate.
I get where you're coming from, but I still see a ton of contradictions in these reports that do get banned vs not get banned. The cases with Balcony and SirBlizzy were just statements with rude and vulgar profanity. Was not told to stop either yet he was banned. Like cases 1 and 2 where the punishment was not given.
I skimmed through your post, because it's late at night and my ability to read la lot of text and comprehend it all s is very little right now. Two things: Keep in mind that banning is generally done for offenses that can't be solved in game, or when the situation is one of those 'zero tolerance' issues. If it goes past a one off comment (excluding zero-tolerance issues like derogatory terms) and continues to be harassing, then it becomes banworthy. If we banned everyone immediately for every inclination of a rude comment, we'd be going overkill for sure. And also keep in mind that we do exercise discretion - we are trusted to be able to use our own decisions on whether we feel something is bannable, or if it's borderline or not. Sometimes our opinions may not line up with everyone else's, but we don't go out of our way to discredit someone's report or shrug it off. We take the time to read every report and handle it how we see best, and if we aren't sure about it we ask one another for input. If a report is deemed not banworthy, it's because the incident was not enough to be bannable. A one off comment saying 'Fuck you", in itself, is not bannable though it is rude. The rule itself that you are questioning is there as a sort of incidental catch-all, and we have been working on a rules revision for a while which would also clear this up a bit. Succubus is pretty accurate for what he said, too. Harassment: the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions . There's a difference in telling someone "Fuck off" because you're doing something wrong (ie: attacking someone else's bigfoot), and someone randomly coming at you, directly, to offend you. The first is not directly attacking the person, it isn't going out of their way to harass. When you are asked to stop and you don't, it's harassment. When you go out of your way to be an ass to someone when it isn't wanted, it's harassment. Vulgar language is one of those things that's more up to the individual GMs sometimes, but if it bypasses what you would see in a PG-13 movie, or we feel it's too explicit, then it's more likely to be something we will ban for. In both banned reports you linked, the people who were banned either went out of their way to bother the person (as seen in Balcony's post), or they continued until it was escalated too far and became excessive. Also, the one with DaggerPang, we have other SS's and chatlogs aside from just the one provided that showed more conversation to further back up why he was banned. I, personally, had been watching him for at least 10 minutes trying to get one good screenshot admist the FM spam of the things he was saying, before we were able to get the rest. The ones that weren't banned were not banned because it didn't follow the rules of harassment, and the language used was not excessive, it was not discriminatory, derogatory, and it was considered that the people involved could have easily chosen to walk away and that would have been the stop of it right then and there. The whisper argument between Sawngo and the other player was one situation were both were at fault, but with the lack of complete proof that showed both sides it looked to be more like a revenge report than someone who truly felt upset or harassed. Sorry if the post is jumbled, I'm very tired lol
Sorry, but i just want to clear a few points. Wouldn't going up to a person and then just insulting them be "went out of their way to bother the person"? Like in case 1 of not banned compared to case 2 in banned. The "went out of their way" whispers and posting in one's shop can be considered as going out of their way to insult someone. Would then someone walking around then going "out of their way" to insult a passerby be excused from this opinion. Though I understand where Succubus is getting at how you can ignore the person whispering you. Does getting bashed on during that whole conversation be left unpunished? At the end of it, it seems like the OP was done talking yet Sawngo kept pursuing his opinion that was objectively hurtful towards the OP. Yes, at one point she explained back to him the logic he used towards her can be applied towards him. We do keep coming back to harassment yet these incident are for profane language. I understand "fuck you" just once to a person is not bannable, but doesn't that leave a hole in this rule? Wouldn't this encourage trolls/people to say "f*ck you" once to anyone they want without being punished? If being rude and using insults/profanity towards a person isn't a bannable offence would the rule change anytime soon or the public be told how to handle situation like this so it does not escalate any further? We do have young people playing and people that do not know how to handle situation like this. I've had my fair share of people insulting me, and couldn't defend myself well enough.
At the time if you followed Balcony's case you'd know that he was constantly being harassed by people so while the report itself might seem silly and didn't show all the evidence, in reality there was more going on behind the scenes, and this is just 1 of many examples. The biggest thing to take away from what Sila said is that gms handle reports case-by-case and cast their own judgement based on what THEY think is right. Knowing that helps understand why some reports have passed and some have failed, if not that at least it helps sympathize with their decisions. You might not see eye-to-eye with the gms and that indeed can be frustrating at times but that's just how it is when you have a system being run by a group of different personalities. As for my personal opinion, I think the current rule for harassment is way too strict. This is the internet after all, people can and will say whatever they want, expecting everyone to behave is impossible. That's not to say if you genuinely feel harassed your feelings don't matter but often times the victim enables the persecutor so it's like they're literally asking for it. Plus there're so many ways to handle harassment, especially online where you have zero affiliations with people, whether that's blocking them, ignoring them, or growing a thicker skin, people should try dealing with their own problems first before seeking gm assistance.
I think people need to stop being so PC and sensitive to every little thing and grow the hell up instead of being cry babies about every little thing that they feel offended about. The majority of you people here are adults if you really feel offended ignore it and move on don't cry on the forums because someone hurt you're feelings.
At the two previous post. Being care bear or sensitive is not all the same for everyone. You may have "thicker skin" than most and may be older than most of the community doesn't mean that there aren't people young (13+) playing royals. If you don't want to contribute to this topic then don't comment on being "PC and sensitive". I'm just clarifying what can be considered bannable on the T&C rule #5.
