A honest feedback about this whole coupons thing. (V2.0)

So this was my previous thread, please read the whole thread before reading this one:

https://royals.ms/forum/threads/a-honest-feedback-about-this-whole-rollback-thing.93662/

@Sila have told me that implementing the coupons took Kevin only 5 minutes and did not take away from staff time and everything is fine and gonna be OK and I am just overreacting. I believed that since I don't know what really is going on since I am not part of the staff. Assuming I really was just overreacting, I've asked the thread to be closed. HUGE MISTAKE ON MY PART!

I was right all this time. Look at the server now, it's a mess. I think it was like 7 or 6 hours and it is still dead and I really don't want to spark panic here, but I have a huge gut feeling that another rollback is going to hit us all in the face. I might be wrong about this specific thing, but God knows. Life is unpredictable.


Bottom line is:
I told you guys this is going to happen. I told you it is a waste of time and nothing good will come out of it and I was right.
I suggested much better solutions and many of you in the shoutbox said my solutions "are stupid". Now because of your "smart" solutions, we are all paying the price. Good job!

Now thanks to your "smart" suggestions, the staff, instead of working on stores so merchants/scrollers like me don't have to deal with lowballers who "offer" 300m for 26 int robe and DC issues they have now to deal with these coupons. That means more important issues will take now even more time, due to poor time management from the staff. Because it is what it is - a poor time management and 80% effort for 20% result.

And for what? For extra pennies from 2x meso? For some exp?
Just a couple of facts:

Extra 10-20m from your pet loot won't make you rich. Leveling takes no skills whatsoever and is easy on our server. It is not old school GMS when getting to 3rd job took forever and exp actually meant something. Let's be honest here and not say "muh 19x" or "muh economy". We both know that is true. The economy won't go crazy (at least not on the long run) because some extra nx have entered into it. If you say otherwise, you don't understand economy. Besides it is even good to our economy since the ws/cs prices are inflated af right now so some extra ones won't do any harm.


Just a reminder - I am not bashing anyone. I don't believe in emotions and feelings, only hard facts and logic and the facts are saying - the whole compensation thing is a huge failure. Period.

You already know what I suggested before assuming you have read the previous thread. Delete these coupons, move on and focus on more important stuff. There is plenty of it. It will be the best for all of us.


I hope you will make the right decision this time. Leave your emotions and ego and think rationally. It is the only way.

 

As I'm sitting here reading over both of your posts, one thing is very clear to me. You as a person do not understand the mentality of the masses. This 3 days and your 13 levels on your low cleric mean nothing to YOU. But they do mean something to MANY MANY others somewhere somehow. Be in a 15 year old kid who had nothing better to do and played 3 days straight, or a 35 year old man with a family and children who honestly doesn't have the time of day to lose such an investment of time on the game but just so happened finally got their time and played during those days. The admins aren't compensating people items are lucky scrolls. They are compensating peoples time. Which, is the most finite thing in a persons life.

You suggest they don't compensate anything to the people they let use their service (MapleRoyals SoonTM). This would actually be the worst thing they could do. Anger many people even more than they already have by this mistake that was out of their own control. I know a few people who quit because of this three day rollback and I knew even more who would quit if they hadn't given any compensation. As I've lost almost nothing in this rollback (a whopping 14% exp on my 188 NL since I wasn't playing much) I can truely say I agree with taking the time to at least quell the anger in their supporters lives for something they couldn't control. Peoples time matters.

These dc issues you so boldy claim aren't being worked on have clearly been noticed. And promptly fixed to a better standard. Sure people still dc, but you can CLEARLY see that they are less and less impactful. Just look at the number of people looking for zak parties now, and how few super megas are being used to ask for dc rewarps. Sure they can fix them even more, but in my personal opinion, I doubt that you can get the chance at dc'ing on a private server to zero.

You completely contradict yourself in this statement. Please. You want them to stop wasting time with something that hundreds of their playerbase want and gave feedback for, yet you ask them to take more time to revert back what they just did in order to appease YOU and the argueably MUCH smaller group of individuals who wanted zero compensation. Lets face it. This is a millenial driven world riding on emotions and hurt feelings. Stop acting like they aren't at all a factor here in this WHOLE situation. And as I say that the sarcasm screams in the back of my head. I hate dealing with kids hurt feelings and entitled lifestyles. I just got out of the US Military after serving for 6 years and 1 deployment to Asscrackistan.

TLDR: This compensation isn't for you, its for the people who support this server with their own time (and lets face it, sometimes money) and you're acting like it means nothing. DC issues will always be there, but all they can do is whittle down the chances of it happening(Unless they are a multi-million dollar company and pay hundreds of coders to find every single last little glitch in the fucking matrix). The few who are against the compensation is greatly outmassed by those who wanted it (And I didn't even care if they did anything because I didn't play during those three days).

Have fun with the compensation and stop acting like it hurt the 6 months of us waiting for the server to be back to normal. Because this really didn't affect it at all. Kthnx Bai.

 

This 2x exp compensation is pretty awesome, its much more than I expected tbh and thats coming from a hardcore merchant. Lvling, while it may not be for you and myself being merchants, is like half the game. It's a huge mistake to downplay lvling and exp which are obviously very important to most players here.

Also if you dont want to constantly get lowballed then use a forum selling thread and put up your prices for straight sell.
This is my thread for selling if you want to reference: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/32-...-21-13-neos-pants-int-f-robes-bandanas.91836/

Ive sold more things on there than I can count with all items being just straight sells with no room for negotiation. I very rarely have to deal with any lowerballers since I almost never say that I'm selling something without expressing a clear price.

 

Damn dude, people are gonna rip you apart, every sentence felt so entitled & egotistical.

 

I do understand the mentality of the masses, and I see these masses ranting all over the shoutbox. They just didn't knew what is going to happen until it blew up in their face and they do not know the big picture. The majority isn't always right, that's the main flaw here.

With the good effort to compensate for the lost time, more time now has being lost in the long run. They could host 2x exp events on different times like GMS did. They could do the rest of my suggestions. It would be even better and there is no need for them to mess around with fixing the server every 15 minutes. Doing nothing was just one option and we have to agree - it is much bettter than what we have at the moment.

The dc issues is just an example. The server is far from being complete and we both know this fact. If this was not the case, I would not even bother with creating these threads. Assume this - you have lots of work to do, and instead you choose to play Angry Birds. Because it is the equivalent of staff choice of compensation. Now look, I'm not bashing the server. I am criticizing the poor time management. As an entrepreneur who got to deal with this whole stuff by the way, so I have nothing to do with your "entitled millennial snowflakes". Stop thinking you are special because of your military service. There is a mandatory military service (for girls too) after high school in my country and I don't go around and claim high ground because of it. Maybe it's because I personally couldn't do it for complex reasons, but even if I did it is not something that makes you better than the so called "kids with hurt feelings".

TL ; DR: I don't even care about me. I am talking in general here. From what it seems in the shoutbox, most people did not like how it all turned to be. But again, most people were against the new source after it was introduced and I am one of the few that supported it from the start. So judging by your own logic, they should have revert it back to the old source in January because most people did not support it. Mentality of the masses, isn't it? Suddenly isn't so important...
Oh and if you were the guy who have lost the 14/3 sock, you would sing a different tune. It is natural human behavior/instinct - you don't care until it comes and bites you...We were all have born this way.

 

Jeeze man again?

 

OP: your post isn't feedback so much as a rant. As others have said, while you may not feel this was the best form of compensation, this was what the staff felt was best for the community. We provided the flexibility for players to get compensated when they wanted in a particular time frame, basically making it like an event which ran at the ideal time for literally every player.

 

Seriously though, people have to understand I am NOT bashing the server and the fact that every one of us is egoistical at some point, like the people who did not play much so they are the only ones who are not complaining in the shoutbox. I bet 99% of them would sing a different tune if they were the ones to lost the perfect ST and the 14/3 sock. I bet everything I have in this game on that. It is natural human reaction and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

A rose by any other name...

 

Well, my main problem is that takes a lot of your time guys. Instead of working on the server real issues, you have to deal with this whole mess. Isn't that a huge waste of time? The idea might be good, but the action is not as good and we both know it didn't turn the way you have planned. I am not bashing you for that, mistakes happen. But if you would have listened to me and other people who have opposed the idea and asked for different (and easier) compensations maybe it wouldn't happen?

I mean your motives were good with the coupons, but...They have caused major problems for hours and I think it lasts until now and people are not getting nx from voting. Maybe the timing of opening this thread wasn't perfect since most of the issues have been solved, but the server is still unstable from what it seems.

It is not a rant by the way. A rant is a mindless rage with no solutions to offer. I have actually offered some, but they were ignored and now we have what we have...

 

It is not a waster of time at all. We made a mistake, and because we do care about the players, we came up with a solution that was practical and would show players we wanted to make things right without someone being able to take advantage of the situation and get overcompensated. There have been tons of if's over the almost four years I've been here. If those if's had been listened to (or not listened to), things would have been much different, but we are where we are and that is no longer relevant anymore.

The coupons actually did not cause any major problems. The primary issue turned out to be we filled up the disk with logging of packets for 20k+ characters in an attempt to resolve the DC issue, and we lost track of disk usage. Let's not get into fear mongering shall we? Please tell me how the server is "still unstable"

You could also say that mistakes will happen whenever a new feature gets rolled out. When we introduce merchants, it's not going to be perfect. We can only do so much and test so much. This is something that has been repeated time and again, the testing of a handful of people cannot come close to replicating the testing that ends up happening when the feature goes into production and literally hundreds of people are using the feature in numerous scenarios at the same time.

 

Thx for replying Matt,

Well, you can see that I have offered other solutions. What is your opinion about them? Where was the flaw of these solutions?
For example
-Replace the 2x meso coupon with x amount of nx/gach tickets and bring in the gach limit if needed. I see no problem here since we both kinda agree on the mesos/items issue.

-Replace the 2x EXP coupon with just doing 2x exp events on different times, something like GMS did? I mean doing a multiple of those so all players from all time zones would benefit more or less the same. Not just a few of those. I can see one major flaw and that is KSing and map stealing that might happen, but hey, we aren't perfect. But there is also a good side to it since newer players might benefit too, since newer accounts created after rollback cannot benefit from these coupons.

I mean, both of those have 0 time investment compared to the whole mess coupons have made (and maybe are still making, who knows) and much more compensating IMO. I guess it is too late because it is now in the past (hopefully), but we can still learn from mistakes and next time try out something new when the next rollback will hit all of us? Who knows!

Happy to hear that it did not delay the important progress with the new source like I thought. But still, I think we should be prepared for the next rollback because it was actually the third (and the biggest) this year.

So are the people in North Korea.
Constructive criticism is the only way we can advance as a community. Just to sit, praise the admins and shut up is not a solution. Every place without constructive criticism and feedback will eventually collapse. What is the purpose of the forum called "feedback" if not to give one? I am not complaining, I am offering a different solution to the whole thing. Complaining is saying "x is stupid fix it now".

Like I've said, last time I played the server have died again after a couple of minutes or so. I don't know what is going on right now as we speak, I will check in a few hours later. But Tim have said everything is fine and after 10 minutes the server went down again. So a rational thinking is assuming that it would happen again.

Oh and about the merchants, that is why I won't rush with mass selling my stuff and wait until it's really working well so I won't lose items/mesos/get a rollback in my face. These things take time and it is fine!

Oh and what is your opinion about the solutions I have offered to Matt? Would be great to hear it. It might be irrelevant now, but you know, in case something happens again....

 

You're not realizing the bigger picture.
The coupons themselves haven't caused any issues.
The issues were caused by the NPC functions that were brought on to support NPCs bringing cash items and expiration dates.
Which is completely irrelevant to the issues we had, and that should be fixed now too.

You're also not understanding the psychology of everything. You never want to give players something and then just take it away because someone said it's not a good idea. We took criticism from the past and we made it available at a player's own time for a limited amount of time, so people can't just hoard the exp coupons forever.

We will not be removing the coupons. We won't be giving people free gacha tickets (because then what's the point of voting and thus supporting the server?). The buff to sunshine and candles was so that people have the opportunity to do more frequent tree runs, which can also yield players worthwhile scrolls and chairs. Or they can choose to sell it. The mesos increase was a slight boost as well. We spent the past week working on it and discussing the best way to go about it, and it won't be changed now that it's actually live.

 

Regarding the first paragraph...You literally just explained why coupons are better than timed events. KSing and map stealing (even though it's reportable, but when you've only got two hours of event time and someone is killing for half of it before they get banned, you're going to get pretty pissed). Secondly -- it shows that the staff is clearly listening. The initial plan was for an event over Father's Day weekend, a time in which a fair amount of the population would be busy. This was made clear by us, the consumers, and the staff realized the concern. No matter how you spin it, a timed event, or events, will screw over someone. Someone out there will happen to be on vacation or on a business trip during the established times, and be unable to receive fair compensation. This way, nobody gets screwed (save for those who might not be able to use all 18 coupons by the 30th, an expiration date with which I actually disagree a bit -- but even then, I would like to find someone who played 72 hours straight...might have their own issues that need resolving.)

Why are you proposing something that actively takes away from everyone's benefit in the coupon system?

Regarding the second paragraph...Am I missing something? What is this whole "mess the coupons have made"? I would like to see some clarification on that, because it worked great last night when the server came back online. So, granted, I haven't been on since then, so I may not have seen any issues, but everything seems fine to me (again, except the expiration date of the 30th, but that's another topic).

 

"The issues were caused by the NPC functions that were brought on to support NPCs bringing cash items and expiration dates. " - Which are the same coupon NPCs according to Matt's post? Or I might be missing something here...

I did not actually meant that, I meant that if these issues continues and the server will keep crashing all the time, the coupons SHOULD be removed since I have assumed they were the cause behind this. Are they?

The point of voting is because even if you will give my account 1000 gacha tickets right now, I would still vote every day. Because we always want more and what we have isn't enough. It is part of our nature and this is the main reason capitalism is working. So there is an answer to your question. I still don't understand what is wrong with this, aside from "muh economy" posts. Could you, as a GM please provide a rational explanation? What is your opinion on the solutions I have offered to John and Matt on my previous post?

Oh and enlighten me about the buff on sunshine and candles, what it is all about? Did their drop rate increased after the rollback or before that? I didn't see it anywhere on the forums...Did I miss it? Anyway that is a much, much better compensation than the 2x meso coupons since the tree/candle rewards are actually worth something and are not extra 10m pennies. Great job here!

Like I have told Matt, it is too late for this specific case, but we can always do something different when the fourth rollback will hit us this year...Would be great to hear your opinion as a GM!

 

It's not about you though, you'll vote great. The tickets would benefit you, great. Gach tickets mean a lot to some people, and others, they mean absolutely nothing. I, along with MANY others lost levels, time, something gach tickets, no matter the quantity will fix. I said this last time, giving everyone the chance to get some levels, something that arguably EVERYONE in the game does, is a more fair compensation than giving everyone X number of tickets because some people feel they lost too many mesos.

As for the second part, it's the event. Gives people more chances to blow the tree, get event scrolls, and the cool chairs. Why is it bad that they buffed the drop rates for those? Also, 2x mesos at anywhere 90+, we're talking 4-15k mesos per drop. That's not chump change.

Lastly, whats the 3rd rollback you're talking about? I count 1) for new accounts/new characters (not everyone was affected), and 2) the recent 3 day one.

 

Based on similar situations in the past, Too many people would have been disappointed if they did any of the alternatives you suggest.
This solution works for most people, And that is the most important thing.

 

You are missing the January rollback then.

Thats is why I suggested the 2x meso should be replaced with a certain amount of nx. The gacha tickets is just an example. Not the ideal, but you have to agree it is much better than 2x meso. Even at 90+, these are still pennies. These amounts are laughable compared to the effort it took stuff to implement them.

Oh and I did not criticize the drop rate increase, I was actually supporting it even before the rollback. I just wanna know when it started and when it was mentioned first by the staff lol

 

Theoretically it's true, but for some reason I highly doubt people would prefer 2x meso coupon over a certain amount of nx. It is like having a mansion in a luxury place and saying "I want to live in a third world country in a tiny apartment". It makes no sense.