Kill stealing should be allowed!

>me when i saw the title of this thread

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>me when i read the content of OPs post

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>the popup i hope appeared on OP's screen after reading responses to OP

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We are not being aggressive at you. In fact, we were being factual and objective. However, it is your points that we disagree of. It's not that we don't accept change- it's just that for it to happen, your points need to be strong and logical and you'll have to find a way to back it up.

Precisely! Only a select few selfish, inconsiderate and greedy people will KS others and the rest will not KS. So why is there a need to implement a new rule? The KS rule makes these inconsiderate people not able to KS, which is ultimately healthy for the server.

Do you even know how rude and ignorant you sound like? Why can't you acknowledge our statements and reply in a civilized manner?

 

I've read through your points and found that none of them contain much valid pros. Would you like to address that, instead of accusing us of not considering your points, and ironically ignoring ours?

1. Allowing KSing would allow us to prohibit map selling.

As much as I personally detest map selling, protecting the community as a whole is a way more important objective than petty disputes over map selling. Map selling is vile (to me) but any benefit from that is strongly outweighed by KS protection.

Furthermore, it is your ironic that your latter points seem to advocate "taking responsibility" and counting on the "sacrificed reputation of the culprit" to resolve these issues, because that is how the problem of map selling is currently being dealt.

So you want "responsibility" and "sacrifice" for KSing, but not for map selling? Seems rather hypocritical to me. To me, it's just simply creating another problem by solving one problem.

2. Nostalgia

Let me put it simply, there's good nostalgia and there's bad nostalgia. KSing is one of the uglier parts of Maplestory that I would rather not have dealt with especially when I was younger and not as emotionally or intellectually equipped to deal with it. Even now that I'm older, I'll prefer to train in peace without having to deal with KSing, thank you very much.

Good nostalgia is where we party together, quest together, complete big objectives together and overall, just have a good time. KSing has no place in that.

3. Sacrificed Reputation of Culprit 4. Responsibility of Victim

I'm grouping this two together since they are similar.

- You are counting on KSers to be moderated by the community by "exclusion". - They don't really have the power to do so, the KSer can probably get away with it.
- This doesn't offer any compensation or protection for the victim who suffered from KSing.
- This tears open rifts between the community. Things can get really ugly.
- Indeed, this playerbase is mature and responsible enough to handle problems on their own. And if they get KSed, what do you think they should do then? Simply leave the map and let things be? This isn't being mature, this is just being resigned and letting the culprit get away with things, and that is completely unfair. In return for being mature, they get KSed?
- The staff here wants to provide a better experience for the players. KS reports, while being a burden, are necessary because the community does not have the power to moderate KSing on its own.

The only reason why it's one sided is because your points are invalid. Naturally, most people support the side of logic and have actually considered what you said, so please don't construe their rebuttals as "brute aggression". Also, you haven't offered any "possible benefit" at all.

Developing our own responsibilities is good and all, but it doesn't stop the KSers from KSing, only the staff have the authoritative power to enforce it.
As much as I'd like to be as idealistic as you, we do not live in an idealistic world. Please apply some realistic expectations, especially with all the summer kids coming. There's already been a huge increase in the number of KSing reports, so your point is completely invalid.

I'll end off with a quote from a previous thread for you to think about:

 

This goes hand in hand with map selling.

Right now map selling is allowed, ksing is not.

Either make both allowable or both bannable, as currently we have too much of a loophole with the whole selling maps situation due to not being able to fight for a map rather than buying it.

 

First off, I couldn't respond to everyone directly because there were shots fired in all directions, but since you made this post specifically for me I will address your matters specifically.

Second, it seems like you are the one who is ignoring what I am saying. Protecting the community is what is important, but the GM's can only protect us so far. We the community can retaliate as well. Instead of relying on 12 GMs, why not also choose support from the 300+ daily players? Your tone makes it seem like I am narrowminded in my approach to this subject.

Third, your ironic connection is not cohesive with my arguement. The action of "taking responsibility" and whatnot is supportive of my notion for kill stealing, not map selling, though the two are somewhat indirectly related.

Fourth, your smirk tone with words such as "thank you very much" imply that my idea is simply outrageous. It is only my opinion. I am only trying to spread possible ideas. Your opinion is your opinion, and I respect that. You also need to understand that everyone has their own boundaries between "good nostalgia" and "bad nostalgia".

"- You are counting on KSers to be moderated by the community by "exclusion". - They don't really have the power to do so, the KSer can probably get away with it."

Who says they don't have the power to do so? In a private server with <500 people on everyday, that notion is tunnel-visioned. Every person can have an impact on the server, be it through built up reputation, or megaphones.

"- This doesn't offer any compensation or protection for the victim who suffered from KSing."

Once again, you lose some, you win some. We may strive for protection for the community, but not everyone will be guaranteed 100% protection, we should expect some obstacles.

"- This tears open rifts between the community. Things can get really ugly."

Separating the ksers from the rest of the community will open a rift, yes, but wouldn't it be good if people could recognize who they are? If there is no rift in between them, then the ksers will never be recognized as ksers, and will continue to ks.

"- Indeed, this playerbase is mature and responsible enough to handle problems on their own. And if they get KSed, what do you think they should do then? Simply leave the map and let things be? This isn't being mature, this is just being resigned and letting the culprit get away with things, and that is completely unfair. In return for being mature, they get KSed?"

Once again, you have ignored the rest of my arguement. I have never said the only way to deal with a kser, is to avoid it. You could also fight back. That does not mean you have to attempt to overpower his mobbing skills, or whatnot. You could call in a friend or a guild mate to help you out. This is what the community can be helpful for. What really irritates me is not your defiance towards my opinion. I am open to all kinds of arguments. What irritates me the most is that you claim that I ignore all posts, labeling me already as somewhat of a naive, simple minded person, while you yourself ignore my argument.

- The staff here wants to provide a better experience for the players. KS reports, while being a burden, are necessary because the community does not have the power to moderate KSing on its own.

The last part. We will never know that, since we never have gone to that point.

"The only reason why it's one sided is because your points are invalid. Naturally, most people support the side of logic and have actually considered what you said, so please don't construe their rebuttals as "brute aggression". Also, you haven't offered any "possible benefit" at all."

Maybe it is because I tend to act more civilized, but when someone presents their opinion, I don't respond with such statements as "are you fucking stupid?", "*face-desk*" (I did laugh at that one though), "can't believe this is even a thread", "why is this even a thread", etc (All quotes are in fact directly quoted from the mapleroyal community). I will not lie that I am disheartened that people choose to aggressively stand against a simple opinion. If you do not like the thread, I would love to hear your reasoning, but such short posts with no logical explanation really irritate me. The worst part is that since so many shots are fired at me in all different directions, most with no logical explanation at all, I cannot respond to all responses, not because I lack the proper refutation, but because there are just an innumerable amount of counter-arguments.
Anyhow, the fact that you blame me for "construing their rebuttals as 'brute aggressions'", when clearly they are in fact, "brute aggressions", brings to light how much of other's arguments you have actually read.

"As much as I'd like to be as idealistic as you, we do not live in an idealistic world. Please apply some realistic expectations, especially with all the summer kids coming. There's already been a huge increase in the number of KSing reports, so your point is completely invalid. "

This is what confuses me. We obviously do not live in an idealistic world, so why do we have to sit back and expect the GM's to clean up all the ksers? This heavy employed use of irony sets back your argument even further. The fact that we do not live in an idealistic world should inspire the community to act against ksing as a whole. And the huge increase in the number of KSing reports only shows how much time GM's have to devote to chase these ksers out of peoples maps. The fact that there has been a huge increase in the number of KSing reports does not even connect to the validity of my argument.

Your last quote is what got me angry though. Since when have I said that such rules were blatantly "stupid" or "lame"? Moreover, you say "I'll end off with a quote from a previous thread for you to think about". I'm sorry, but do you not see what you are doing? You are literally attempting to teach/inform me of some quote that transforms the words I am saying, only making my tone worse than it really actually is.

I can only reply to so many people at once. Before you choose to post your opinion, please make sure you at least provide SOMEWHAT of an explanation... I am eager to hear your opinions!

 

I didn't ignore what you said. I said that the community doesn't have the power to protect itself. Your assumption that everyone is homogeneous is very dangerous, humans are diverse by nature. It doesn't matter if it's 300 or 500 or 5000 people, not everyone is going to think the same way and act jointly against the KSers.

So, the community can't really protect itself from KSers, only the GMs can. Can you explain why GMS had hundreds of thousands of players, yet this very large community did not protect them? What makes you think the entire community of MapleRoyals would protect people against KSers, especially when there are people making threads about endorsing or allowing KSing?

With regards to map selling, I said it was ironic because you want to solve map selling by allowing KSing. You expect people who are KSed to act responsibly by handling it themselves. By extension, you should also expect people who are unhappy with map selling to act responsibly and handle it themselves.

But by allowing ksing and thus solving the problem of map selling for them, this means that the people who are dealing with map selling need not behave responsibly nor handle it themselves, since the problem is already solved for them. Whereas for KSing, you don't want the problem to be solved for those who face it, as that would constitute "babying" or being "irresponsible". Why is there a double standard for KSing and map selling?

"Thank you very much" wasn't smirk, it was emphasizing the fact that I very much appreciate that the peace we have is not disturbed. The fact is that your opinion that KSing counts as good nostalgia has been very poorly justified. You have not given any strong reasons to support that KSing has any positive nostalgic aspects. While everyone has their own opinion, you should at least justify it well with strong logic.

And before this, we were not losing anything at all, and everyone is guaranteed 100% protection. So why lose that when there are no benefits to be gained at all?

I'd rather have no KSers and people being unable to identify who the troublemakers are because they can't make trouble, than have the troublemakers having free reign and waging a war against the rest of the community.

Why create a problematic scenario when you can prevent it entirely?

I did not touch on that because "fighting back", doesn't solve the problem at all. Bringing more people to KS back is simply a power struggle, and a really childish solution.

Oh, someone is bullying me, so I bring more people to bully that person back = One of the major reasons why there are so many conflicts in the world today.

I apologize for those half-assed responses you got from others, but there were some cogent responses that you didn't really take into account either.

I asked you not to be idealistic as you were suggesting that the KSing can simply solve itself since you trust everyone to be "ethical". In reality, as seen from the high volume of KSing reports, that clearly not everyone is "ethical". You are idealistic because you expect the community to be "inspired to act against ksing as a whole", which is a very tall order as you expect everyone to be thinking homogeneously.

Lastly, the quote was not based on the words you said. It was simply something for you to keep in mind based on past discussions on KSing.

 

Facepalm.

 

KS-ing is against the rules and will remain against the rules. I haven't seen any any convincing arguments in favour of KS-ing here, so I think it's best to close the thread.