What is an offense and what is a lack of identity/immaturity?

After seeing a report/appeal of two Latins @87Karlos & @MiguelSilva totally respect for both but I got struck that the rule of hate speech/racism (?) has some problems with interpretation by the community. What is an offense and what is a lack of identity/immaturity?

Let's check first the contest:
Report by @87Karlos: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/racism.98411/
Appeal by @MiguelSilva: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/appealing.98470/

First, I will talk about the fact of "eating pigeons" in my country Peru, which I am proud of. In Peru culturally pigeon/pigeons have been eaten for decades, before my parents/grandparents and also by the ancestors of 87karlos. It is considered within traditional medicine as an effective remedy for certain diseases
(do you need proof?)
https://www.desalud.net/sopa-paloma-propiedades-beneficios-la-salud/

The most famous chef in Peru GastonAcurio* has videos (posted below) on the open TV sign of how to make a delicious "Ocopa of pigeons”.
*Who is Gaston Acurio? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastón_Acurio
(min 4:40)

The diary "El Comercio", considered as the "New York Times" of Peru has in its articles of food the recipe of how to make a delicious pigeon soup.
http://menuperu.elcomercio.pe/recetas/caldo-de-gallina-y-pichones-1298
http://menuperu.elcomercio.pe/recetas/pichones-asados-con-tallarines-criollos-1761

Within my family, my grandfather used to cook and eat pigeon. My grandmother, who is from the south of the country, eats CUY & PIGEON that is even considered a traditional food of the country. If someone, contemptuously, tells me "go eat pigeons" I would only have the nice memory of my grandmother eating hot pigeon soup to recover from the chemotherapy that cancer causes.

Now, focusing in the discussion between these two people. As a Latin, Peruvian and native Spanish-speaker, I see first that @87Karlos does NOT respect an offer from anyone who is free to do it. If I have a chaos scroll and IF I WANT TO SELL IT FOR 100M is my problem. What's the harm in that? Why should someone tell me how much I have to sell and harass me about that? Why should I obey someone who does not like to change the price or sell it cheaper? That does not make sense, it's even Karlos who started the conversation talking grossly. For any Latin, it looks like both sides have critical replies where it clearly starts @87Karlos meddling about the selling price. Finally, yes, it looks like the last reply of @MiguelSilva is "go eat pigeons".

Now as a Peruvian, in an alleged case where someone tells me "go eat pigeons" or "go eat cuys" I would take it as an ignorance. An ignorance, because he does not know how delicious and expensive it could cost an "OCOPA OF PIGEONS" or how healthy it can be to take a "SOUP OF PIGEONS". The point here is that 87karlos has an identity problem and becomes the victim of the facts. The serious thing of this is that he has been protected by a misinterpreted argument taken as racism; in Spanish or in any language does not comply with the parameters of racism, so the GM’s made a mistake. Then the rule is subjectively in favor of 87karlos because you just don't consider the background in general and it's considered as a racist act which is actually a childishness.

On the other hand, if 87Karlos consider that to say to a Peruvian “go to eat pigeons” is an offense and even a racist speech, I could also report him by the fact of considering it that way? Because for me is a lack of respect and a contempt for my culture and my ancestors and all the Peruvian culture of which I am proud to belong. The fact that another Peruvian considers himself different and ashamed of the traditions and customs of his nation by the simple fact of not eating pigeons or cuys is more considered as a lack of identity and maturity. You are free NOT to eat it if you do not want or do not like it.

I am a vegetarian because my father is Hare Krishna, they do not eat any kind of meat because of religion, but for that fact, I'm not going to feel offended if someone tells me "Go eat chicken". Most of my friend eat burgers/chicken/fish/meat. Life teaches you to be tolerant and differentiates between an aggressive insult, racism, discrimination or simply a commentary on a conversation that ends badly.

I would like you to contribute on this subject that becomes controversial from ignorance because I no longer know the line that divides racism, intolerance, childishness, and immaturity.

FOR GM's:
As well as @Kai considers an insult that someone thinks they would be in favor of someone for being friends with a member of the staff, I consider an offense that a foreigner thinks that the gastronomy of my country has racist dyes and therefore I demand apologies.

Regards,
Bryanz.

 

I think you should reread the staff members' replies to the ban appeal and you will see why the decision was made and why the ban was not overturned. It was not a GM just deciding on their own that what was said was insulting. The staff members consulted others who were native speakers and knew the culture and assisted the staff with making the decision.

 

Hello @John

I would like to emphasize that Peru was the first country in South America to add to the pigeon in the traditional food. The pre-Incans culture discovered the benefits of pigeon soup (before Christ) and was inherited by many of our grandparents. You can buy(NOW) a bowl of pigeon soup at the market for a cheap price or look for gourmet food made from pigeon for $40. For a foreigner, to consider that in Peru they eat pigeon does not have anything bad because it is the truth and perhaps is interested in eating and knowing its benefits. What I'm trying to make clear is that here there is no racist act, there is only a childishness on the part of 87karlos for the little information.

I'm not friend of 87karlos or MiguelSilva & I'd like to make a good feedback about:
What is an offense and what is a lack of identity/immaturity?

 

As far as I concern as a native Spanish speaker (Mexico), I consider the ban report was made in this case as ridiculous and only was made because of craving and just because he felt a little bit "offended", and I have to recognize their way of show the "evidence" in order to justify their Report it's really convenient, Nevertheless I still considering that report as "silly".

It's true the commentary refers to a specific region (PERU) with one another native speaker from Peru, @Bryanz as Peruvian tells in few words which he also doesn't consider this as Ban Worthy...

My feedback to Royals staff members:
I know the Spanish language could be mean something different depend's on the region and could be hard for non-native speakers take the right decisions about some topics...

I would like to add this as the complement of my later solution:
How is possible a guy could send a smega telling: "Hello Faggots" in Spanish and don't consider it ban worthy?

Note: I just added this as the complement of this thread I am not trying to change the Staff decision which I respect (but don't agree)...

Solution Offered:
In my opinion, this is just some clear examples who shows the lack of ability, to handle reports in the Spanish language.

I propose to Royal Staff really consider recruit a Latin America guy in their staff... (Or somebody who understand more clearly the Latin slang/culture).
Role which I consider GM Manny was doing...
Or at least Actual GM's take a little bit more time and ask NEUTRAL friends/related persons about this cases, before taking any decision.

I don't pretend change any staff decision done, but I really pretend my feedback could help to improve this lovely server!

Cheers!

 

Even though ethnicity and culture are independent of ones race, it's attributed to the same ends when it comes to racism (For example, why hating a jewish person can sometimes be seen as racist, and not antisemitism).

The fact of the matter is, just because you don't think it's offensive does not change the fact that someone else took offense to it. The staff can ban at their discretion, and if that's not enough for you, he also mentions that people who speak Spanish and are of Latin background, also contributed and that's how the conclusion to uphold the ban came to be. As for your last bit. Who are you to judge when someone does or does not know their own cultural identity? Same for their level of maturity? Again this loops back around to, just because you don't think it's offensive doesn't mean it isn't.

At the end of the day, the issue isn't whether or not someone should have the skin to take an insult, but the fact that people shouldn't need to in the first place.

As for this, as a non-spanish speaker, I did some research on this. I think your translation is a tad harsher than what most people would take it as. Simply calling someone gay, or even an effeminate gay, does not hold the same negative connotations as the word in question, which if I'm not mistaken has it's own word in spanish.

 

All the latin community who has this information considers an arbitraerity by the Gm's ...

I don't think this is an act of racism just im with @Ivan Chavez :
"I consider the ban report made in this case it's ridiculous and only was made because of craving and just because he felt a little bit "offended".


#BringBackManny

 

Since this thread has now turned into giving opinions on a particular ban appeal, I will be locking this thread. As has been said, just because one person may not find it offensive does not mean it is something we will tolerate on the server.