@Dann Just pray you find a guy like me. I gotta be reminded several times to kick the bishop last second from the party & even if you do leech the exp, I dont lose my bananas over it since im used to getting whited
I believe bishop should not receive exp from bosses. Effort while bossing aside, I'd focus more on the ease of gaining exp. I've played both mage/bishop and atker. For sure, for an average player (and could also occur in higher tier players), setting up boss runs can be very time consuming, frustrating and also inconsistent at times. How often do you see the same names smega-ing for a party and recruiting members? Do note that Zakum, Horntail, Krexel and Toad require time to set up. The most ideal situation is where a party is settled immediately, but happens rarely. Gaining exp as an atker isn't that simple. As a bishop, yea you have to smega selling leech but after getting 2 pms, it's almost safe to assume that you're ready to go. After that, do your leech and gain a bunch of exp. If you're a bishop who isn't in to selling leech, pair up with an atker or archmage to duo train. Use genesis to your advantage, you spent a shit ton to get that book to pass. Exp is super available to bishops as opposed to atkers. Also, how often do people ask for atkers' levels vs bishops' levels? The answer is obvious. If atkers continuously get deprived of bossing exp, then it will take a longer time for them to get accepted easily into boss runs and thus being on the backfoot. I've seen low bishops joining a boss run but how much do the lv135+ atkers struggle? I know I did when I was a wee 135 Hero. Tldr: exp source for atkers is not as readily available as bishops. Cut them some slack.
Pro players don't have to call themselves pro or brag about the number of characters they have. Also, looks like only two bishops and two priests to me.
I appreciate your opinions and to say true this shows that I am not the only one who has this "problem". There are many people who feel that those who play bishops are unfairly judged. Of course there are ups and downs, but the objective of this is just to make the community understand in general, that they should respect the role that one plays as a support. Independent whether or not a mule is created, they must understand that we are not all like that. Again I appreciate all your comments and I see many foundations that contradict what I mention, but there are also others who defend them and I think that is the most important thing, to exercise awareness of what some people pass as bishops. Thanks everyone ♡
Disclaimer: I say this as someone who until relatively recently was a bishop main -- the vast majority of my time I've spent in bosses both in new source and old source combined was spent as a bishop. Also, apologies for the wall of text. Hihi, First of all, I'm really sorry about your experience, as getting expelled is obviously not an easy nor productive way to deal with the situation. I know that getting expelled from a party with seemingly no prior explanation and losing out on exp you felt you deserved feels shitty. That said, I ask that you try to understand your party leader's point of view as well. Boss hosts all have their own sets of rules, from how they conduct the actual boss fight to how they choose to distribute loots/NX. I know that even among my small group of friends that I boss with consistently, the way we order NX differs when we encounter whatever XYZ special situation that may arise. Nevertheless, similar to in the real world, there is still an unwritten set of norms that our community tends to follow, like the examples that Jackson mentioned, and most hosts will take that and add special nuances as needed. Thus, putting aside whether this norm itself is "right" or wrong", I can understand why your party leader didn't feel the need (or likely even think about it) to explain that in his/her HT run, bishops don't get experience, as that is the norm. As the time approached for a body part to die, your leader and other members of your party were probably confused themselves why you weren't leaving on your own. They may have thought that you forgot or couldn't -- like maybe you were spamming MG for self-protection. These are potential things that do happen. I know getting expelled feels bad - I've been expelled as a bishop countless times, and even when you know it's coming from a friend it still kind of stings - but it's not really meant to be humiliating or insulting. That being said, it's always better when you know for sure that everyone's on the same page, which is why it's best to be clear and clarify as needed when you're working with people you don't know. Now, more on the actual topic of bishops getting party exp in horntail: As Akira said, most HT parties right now expect (essentially require) attackers to apple/gelt 1-2 times, then stopper the rest of the way. That's a significant investment in attack pots. May I ask if you're using the same on your bishop? I'm not being facetious - it's actually a legitimate question. I've brought geared, mained, attack pot-using bishops to HT who actually deal quite a significant amount of damage at HT. I kept them in party the whole time, and nobody had an issue with that. If anything, party exp would likely have been worse if they had left due to the damage they were dealing. I don't know about other hosts, but if you came to me with a bishop that was capable of contributing actual DPS whilst doing their bishop duties, I'd be more than happy to have that discussion. In the end, most people I know won't lose it if the bishop is leeched, accidentally or not -- it's really not that big of a deal -- but it's the principle of the matter. If we count attack pots as an "entry fee" for each attacker (not counting gear or elixirs) is nearly 100m, why does a bishop essentially get that exp for free? Yes, there's effort involved in playing this very vital role, but that's true of every other role. Should BM/MM not have to apple either because they're providing SE? What about sairs having to constantly mount/dismount? What about party leader needing to juggle various buff mules and/or sed mules and/or bishop? Do dark knights not have to apple if they're literally keeping a party alive even more so than a bishop by making sure low-hp attackers won't simply be one-shot killed if they're not washed appropriately? [Side note: When a bishop dies or dcs, the run will likely proceed without them. When SE dies or dcs or HB dies or dcs... depending on the party makeup, a lot of runs will just leave as the run is either literally impossible to complete due to HP requirements or will take 3+ hours] Perhaps I could fathom a system in which a bishop helped subsidize the attackers' attack pots, but that just seems really unnecessarily complicated.... Anyway, those are just my two cents on this topic. Although I disagree with your position, I'm really sorry that you encountered people that didn't take the time to talk things over calmly or reasonably with you; everyone deserves that. I hope you find yourself a bossing party / crew that is ok with you leeching EXP -- I know there's a bunch of people out there (all over this thread even). In the end, there's no right or wrong, there's just whatever makes you and the people you're running with comfortable. Every crew has their own rules. Just make sure you fall in and run with the people that match yours! Edit: sorry just saw you posted right above me ! i still mean what i wrote... hope you haven't felt too attacked in this thread, just wanted to give my thoughts
I dont think anyone got my note that GEN DC IS GODLY!!! If your a bishop and your pt kicks u out and u don't like it GEN DC THEM. END OF STORY - NOT BANNABLE TOO
In my experience, I believe that there's also the unspoken rule of bishops having first loot priority for krex rings (krex runs) and HTP/NX cards (HT runs). Coupled with savings from not having to use attack potions, these could be seen as fair compensation for the lack of EXP received in my opinion. Then again, not everyone adheres to this so I fully understand your pain of feeling shortchanged. Hopefully you'll find people who value your services and ensure that you get what is rightfully yours.
The idea that people should not give exp to bishops during boss runs because they can earn easy money elsewhere by leeching or because they don't spend money on expensive attack pots is quite a slippery slope. If you are going to differentiate your treatment based on how much money this or that job makes/loses, better give a bigger split to shadowers since they lose money so fast by bombing their money. Or better still, give more money to NLs since their gear is the most expensive in-game.
My response is HT-specific, since Zak gives such pathetic exp for high level that I don't even care, and in Krex HS gets ring anyway. I have completed around 10 HT runs as a Bishop, and I think whether or not a Bishop deserves EXP in HT depends on the situation. In some of my runs, the attacker brought dedicated seduce mules (e.g. a high-HP bucc) that doesn't attack. I stay in one party with the dedicated seduce mule, heal the mule when it gets seduced, and only switch party when attackers' HS is about to expire. Of course, I don't get EXP in this way, but I am totally fine with it, because my job is really easy. I don't even need to do much rope-climbing, since the seduce target always stays at bottom. If I accidentally get EXP in this kind of runs, I would definitely feel guilty. There are also runs where the seduce target is an attacker (say hero), but the group doesn't need HB (i.e. no DK). In this case, the Bishop's job gets a bit harder, since it is more difficult to focus on the seduce target in the middle of many people. Also, when the seduce target attacks head A/B/C, I need to jump down if he falls down, and climb up with him. However, it is still not too hard, since I can constantly heal when I'm with the seduce target. I am fine with either getting or not getting EXP in these runs. Although my job may be a little bit harder than attackers', I didn't invest anything in attack potions. Without BossHP, Bishops usually get most (if not all) EXP in these runs anyway, since it is hard to predict when the body parts will die, and it is risky to expel a Bishop just in case seduce happens during that time. The most viable option would be giving up pre-head and arms EXP on a Bishop. I am totally fine with it. Finally, there are runs where seduce target is an attacker, and the attackers need HB (i.e. there is a DK in the party). These runs are pretty tough for Bishops, since we cannot constantly heal (otherwise the DK cannot zerk). Instead, we need to heal at the correct moment, which requires a lot more focus. Personally, I found it more tiring than selling leech. I think I do deserve the EXP in these runs. Although I didn't invest in the attack potions, the attackers also didn't to focus as much as I did. After such a run, I will be much more tired than the attackers.
@PhotonSphere is pro bishop in ht btw! just a shout out. (he is one that deserves EVERYTHING, your exp, your split, your htp, your mesos, your equips, your gf/bf too)
I just want to tell you, as a Dark Knight main, thank you for thinking about our zerking. I may be in the minority with this, but accidentally healing me while you're healing the sed target is 100% okay and expected.
The solution is actually very simple. Just tell them that you are leeching. If they want you, you're in a party.
Imagine how it feels being invited to a party and not deserve to eat because your dad owns a Store that sells food. Oh but of course u deserve to smile and watch us eat though. How does it feel? Well, can't blame them if they just say tyfp and leave mid run.
I think the lesson we can all take away from this is to set expectations before the run and if they don't meet what you need, don't participate.
This is what I think every time I see bossing drama on the Forums. Like I know it's the internet, but basic human-to-human interaction and communication skills still apply lmaoooo
Imo this is pointless to discuss in a thread, you should discuss this with the people you are running with if you have a problem with the way they currently handle this issue. I agree that you surely should be compensated somehow for joining boss runs on your bishop be it getting mesos, items or exp. You need to realize thought that bishops don't contribute that much in a boss fight. They are very easily replaced by a mule especially since most people have a bishop. This is basically like supply and demand, there's a vast amount of bishops to chose from if you're going to ask for more compensation than most other bishops you will likely end up last on the list of bishops to pick. You can either find a party that allows your bishop to leech exp from the boss, negotiate your compensation before run, do the boss and be satisfied without exp or just don't do the boss at all.
