Why is the trader paying for the 30m tax? In a normal transaction the receiver pays the tax, seems retarded imo for being reversed.
It has been discussed in this feedback thread: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/1b-...iving-end-not-the-one-trading-it-away.111779/
welp this idea while good seems counter intuitive, it's quite evident from smegas to forum selling almost no1 uses 1b coin to trade, but rather still the usual old cs/ws method. This 30m tax crap on the seller, while you know most buyer prob won't pay for the additional tax, makes this system useless. W/e i'll never use 1b coin lmao, it's prob also one of the main reason ws/cs is still 500m as we did see a drop when rates were changed in gacha and then went back up.
I don't think the Bil Coin was implemented to be used as a new currency (Even tho that would be awesome) but more as a way to store money when you have over max meso x 2 (Inventory + Storage) instead of making meso mules.
no I'm fairly sure 1b coin was introduce for new over max meso currency to replace cs/ws as their price was getting out of control at one point 550m. There was a price drop hype when the coin just came out, as I wasn't active I didn't realize the tax, but u can c it's basically soon abandoned, making cs/ws price go up again now we looking at 520m
Why not make the coin 30m tax upon exchanging the coin, so instead of getting 1b u get 970m upon exchange, this eliminates both sides of the party to have any meso to make the transaction and we have the consistent buy pays tax. I'm also sure this could bring cs/ws price down a little, while there are many other factors contributing to cs/ws price, I'm sure it'll have some effect. The market at this point of the game is absolutely at it's worse.
This is terrible for people just using the 1b coins as storage. The 1b coin offers greater security over using WS/CS and also frees up WS/CS for actually being *used* instead of them all being hoarded by the mega rich. I still think the 30m should come out of the person who's receiving the 1b coin -- but that's just me. (Or the standard should be the buyer puts up 30m per 1b coin...)
The BMC was released with the intention of serving as alternative currency (or rather, simply currency—since it's just mesos after all) due to multiple feedback by players regarding the issue of the meso cap. Unfortunately people still stick to WS/CS anyways, largely due to the reverse taxation as well as the fact that WS/CS are crucial goods. There were a couple of discussion threads on it around the time the BMC was released, so feel free to look around for them. I think the suggestion that made the most sense at the time was having the BMC tax be receiver-based like mesos, but have it be automatically liquidated into 970m mesos if you had less than 30m mesos on you in person. But we all know what happens to suggestions that make sense in this server ~♪♬♫
The coin was made so people aren't forced to buy WS and CS just to make trades >2.1b. The hope was prices would drop because they wouldn't be the only means to large trades (but this wasn't the reason the coin was made). So either people still prefer the potentially volatile nature of the scrolls over the coin, or the prices of the scrolls weren't due to people hoarding them, and the ~500m is reflective of their actual value. Additionally, you no longer need to make mules just to hold mesos, that's why theres no tax on buying/selling the coin and only trading it (they're essentially mesos, and you get taxed on mesos, that's why theres tax on the coin). If you so wish, you can farm mesos, and just store them on yourself. fwiw this was thrown around before the coin was released, but it was a coding/logistical nightmare. What if you have too many mesos to accomodate the liquidated coin? Should it go to frederick? (<-- that was something that at the time I believe was impossible to do via trade). The coin isn't perfect but there really isn't a perfect fix.
Let's compare both options right now: 1b coin Pros: Storing more than max mesos without relying on mules Cons: Get taxed whenever a trade is done Cs/ws Pros: Storing more mesos without relying on mules (this is true because cs/ws is generally accepted as an alternative mode of currency) No tax incurred when trading Cons Subject to fluctuation of cs/ws prices Selling cs/ws will incur tax Need to spend time collecting cs/ws Based on my observation (which could be wrong), ws and cs is still the preferred method of high value trading. For bcoin trading, the one getting taxed is heavily penalized while for cs/ws trading, it's merely a transfer of risk/opportunity from one party to the other. As it stands, cs/ws have been increasing in prices over time and is pretty stable and liquid. Yes, you still get taxed when selling the scroll, but you will have an option of trading the scroll without incurring any tax. This is mainly applicable for high value trading. People are less willing to receive ws/cs for amount below 1b (assumption). However, there is also a chance for the receiver of cs/ws to profit from the risk, which is not unlikely given how the price of them have steadily increased. Hence, The cons of bcoin trading at the moment outweighs the cons of cs/ws trading. The buyer would clearly push for cs/ws over bcoins and there is no strong reason for the seller to reject this. If the bcoin was truly created so that people won't feel forced to use ws/cs, then they have to be made such that the pros and cons are similar. This can be done by: 1) making the bcoin taxable only when converting into mesos (similar to liquidating cs/ws) 2) making cs/ws sellable to npc (this will require a price to be determined, which is probably unwise). 3) Alternatively, the cons of cs/ws trading can be increased by imposing a tax when trading cs/ws 4) making cs/ws prices more volatile by adjusting the gacha rates. Method 1 seems to be the best way.
The issue of tax on the coin can also be fixed by making the other person put the money forward to cover it (something people already do with high value meso trades). The point is, you can store mesos on yourself without needing mules (no charge to convert coins to meso and vice versa) and you can now make trades up to 70b without using scrolls. Lowering scrolls prices was something that would have been nice if it happened, but wasn't why the coin was made. Your first choice there essentially kills the main purposes of the coin to make it slightly better for high value trades (and to circumvent the tax).
I have very little experience in this but even if the receiver of 1b coin will put forward the tax amount, the person giving away the coins will still incur the 3% from the mesos trade, which could totally be avoided with ws/cs. But you can already do that, with ws/cs. And it has higher utility for both buyer and seller [besides the need to gather the scrolls, but given how liquid it is, i don't think it's a big problem] If i were to build up my wealth gradually over time, 1b at a time, I would convert them into cs/ws instead of frantically trying to buy them when I need to. Yes, There are risks for holding cs/ws, but right now it seems to be a risk worth taking. That's what I'm trying to point out, the point of the coin wasn't to lower cs/ws prices, but to make it a more viable method to trade high value trades. With that in mind, bcoin trading is still an inferior option to cs/ws for high value trade because at the end of the day, cs/ws can be used to circumvent the tax. With Bcoin, people now have a choice, but the status quo of using ws/cs remains. I don't agree with you that the first method would make it worse off for high value trades, in fact I think it makes it more favourable for both parties. Again, these are all my opinion and I have no experience in high value trades. If the bcoin is serving its purpose well, then there is no reason to change it. If you find that people are not keen on using this method, then I believe there ways, as listed in my previous post, to make this method more viable.
I just reread what you wrote, apologies for misreading and misunderstanding what you said. I was under the impression from your previous post that the main purpose is so that people are not forced to buy cs/ws for trads>2.1b. Which would've made the main purpose about trading and not so much of storing. I still feel that the best method is to make it consistent with the mesos trading system is still to make the coin worth 970m when sold. It is equivalent to transferring the mesos to a mule if converted. But you are no longer forced to incur that as long as you don't convert it.
The problem with this is that you can continue trading the coin without any tax on it. Imagine that a single coin's lifespan lasts for 50 trades before someone decides to convert it. By that time the tax on that amount of mesos being traded would've been 1.5b but it can still be sold for 970m.
Yes, that is the problem with barter trading, but the same problem exist for cs/ws trading. People realise that, which contributed to it becoming a non-taxable alternative for messos. So it comes back to the main question of what is the bcoin for? If it is to become a low risk alternative to overcome the cap limit, then it works fine the way it is. If it's for high value trade, cs/ws still works better. If there is no cap limit on mesos today, would people still find the need to trade in cs/ws? I believe they would because of the benefit of tax avoidance that it brings, which outweighs the risk of value fluctuating.
I don't see a problem with that, before the coin was introduce any transaction over meso cap didn't involved tax since it was done over cs/ws. Ws/cs only came from gachapon, an npc, which you aren't taxed for when you gacha it. Same as 1b coin, you buy it from the fm npc and no tax. You can then trade ws/cs however many times you want and you won't get taxed for it unless some one use mesos. Which is the same thing as turning in the 1b coin and incur a 30m tax.
The difference being that the mesos don't get frozen in the CS/WS scenario. The mesos get traded to whoever sold the CS/WS and they can then go and spend those mesos, which continue to get taxed.
It does get frozen, your described scenario of 1b coin being traded over and over again can be done with as cs/ws. Not every one, especially the rich make over meso cap trade and sell the ws/cs. They hold on and use it for their next max meso trade. It's the same exact thing. The only time a taxation occur if they sell the ws/cs which is the same thing as a person trading in the 1b meso coin for mesos through the npc.
