About a forum ban and moderation..

I am making this thread in order to have a proper place to discuss recent events, rather than making a bunch of off topic posts in a different discussion.
I was made aware earlier that @auntjaemima has received a forum ban as a result of his post in this thread, which i thought was weird. At first i thought "if he received a forum ban for this post, then why wasn't it removed as well?", but then i looked at it, and i just can't see how this post even breaks the forum rules. The post in question reads "I don't think I've ever seen you write something on this forum that made me, or anyone else, think, "This guy is of sound mind and judgement. He knows what he's talking about.""
Now lets take at the rules the post supposedly breached;

Spoiler: Discourteous Behaviour (20 Points)

An act of discourteous behaviour involves the posting of offensive or highly objectionable to other players, moderators or the server itself.

• Excessively rude, offensive, hurtful or otherwise negative comments in a thread
• Excessive spamming or flooding of a thread with unnecessary content
• Excessive cursing or the use of highly inappropriate language in any language with the exception of if a particular word is the topic of discussion approved by a moderator
• Circumventing the slur filter intended to block highly inappropriate language from being used with the exception of if a particular word is the topic of discussion approved by a moderator
• Inciting or provoking other players with negative content in the nature of beginning a destructive argument (flame wars)

Apparently, according to Muff, the aforementioned post was deleted due to it being off topic and flaming.
It might not have been 100% on the topic of the economy of this server, but the post is a response to Evan's "criticism" towards Jae's initial post, indirectly pointing out that Evan's reply does not make any sense and in his post completely disregards all the well written, formal arguments in Jae's thread. I fail to see how Evan saying "you're just a kid who wants doesn't know what he's talking about" is more on-topic than Jae pointing out Evan's consistent lack of knowledge, experience and logic in his posts throughout this forum after poorly criticizing Jae's on-topic post, which just by looking at the likes of his post we can see Jae isn't exactly the only one who thinks this about Evan. Not to mention, if that post is off-topic, why are all the clearly off-topic posts from page 4-5, as well as other lesser on-topic posts allowed to stay? The post was also supposedly flaming (or "excessively rude/hurtful" if we go by the forum rules), which i also fail to see. Criticizing an individuals lack of judgement and knowledge about what he's talking about, in a formal and honest manner, does not mean it's flaming or offensive or anything. It might be hurtful, but i mean if the truth hurting is enough to warrant a warning then idk.

What I'm trying to say here, is that both I and others think that how Jae's post was treated, and how Evan's post did not receive any consequence at all while being arguably just as "off-topic", is concerning. Evan is supposed to moderate the forums to make sure people follow the Rules and Regulations set by staff, yet it's as if Evan and other staff members can go around and post whatever they want without consequence, but once Jae writes something that happened to point out a flaw with a specific staff member, it results in an immediate forum ban seemingly because he is a player disliked by some staff members, despite the post being formal and in no way rude.



As a side note, can i just comment on how some staff members seem to think they are getting "jumped on" purely because they are staff members?
As someone who up until recently has been a staff member and actively participating in various feedback threads, i can safely say that i never felt the need to hold back what i had to say, nor did i ever feel attacked or jumped on for what i said. If you feel you are getting jumped on whenever you are responding to feedback threads, chances are it's because whatever you wrote lacks common sense, logic, respect or otherwise does not meet the expectations of a post from an official staff member. People expect staff members to be unbiased, fair and to be experienced and knowledgeable about what they're writing about, to be of the best of this community. Not just because being a staff member is an official role and therefore has higher expectations, but rather because we, the community, expect our staff to consist of responsible, sensible people who are fair and who are fit to be role models for the community. We don't want random shitposting people as staff members obviously, so whenever staff members do post something stupid or unreasonable, of course people are gonna be upset about it. How can staff members tell people to not flame and to be nice, when those very staff members, our supposed role models, act excessively disrespectful and childish in ban appeals? I've even written feedback about something similar before. If people are upset about something you wrote, maybe there's a reason for it. Instead of just saying "those stupid players are just attacking me again", maybe you should take a closer look at what you said and and perhaps you'll understand why people are upset about it, and if you don't, maybe you aren't fit to be a staff member. The title of staff member does not shield you from criticism. You'll never learn from your mistakes if you can't admit to your mistakes.
/rant

 

I never understood the idea of forum moderators. The less of an apparent barrier between players and staff, the better. The title of forum moderator only creates a larger split, which might be the reason why theres this issue of moderators feeling like they are being ganged up on or vice versa. Especially, when the ONLY forum moderator got there by only defending and agreeing with GMs. ( no offence, but Evan is the biggest ass kisser I've ever seen lmfao)

In a regular situation where you arent a moderator and you got ganged up, you would not think the same thing. You'd honestly probably say something like "getting ganged up because I dont agree with the GMs lul"
The lack of perspective from both sides is the reason any argument/discussion fails.

Also, passive aggressive statements like what Evan said is definitely not cool and is definitely what incited the reaction. The reaction by Jae may have been uncalled for, but you can't compare someone's ideas and opinions to children wanting ice cream for breakfast and expect no reply. Its very ignorant to take someone's opinion and compare it to something so trivial.

Also, what is the need of a forum moderator again?

 

http://royals.ms/forum/threads/inco...le-who-choose-to-speak-up.109625/#post-607808
I used my discretion as a staff member to assign warning points to a user for a post that was nothing more than flaming of another user. I only came to this decision after conferring with several other staff on the matter of the posting.

You may say it wasn't flaming, to which i can honestly say nothing but that i simply disagree.

 

If you're using Martin's previous actions as staff to justify the aforementioned actions of current staff, I feel the need to point out the obvious fact that they were two completely different scenarios with two completely different contexts. The most central being that Nullpo intentionally went out of his way to flame another person on their farewell thread, whereas Jae was responding directly (albeit with flame) to a patronizing post made towards him by a staff member.

That being said, the crux of the issue is this: if Jae had said what he said to literally anyone else in the community, would he have received the same punishment for his actions? Or hell, would he have received any punishment at all? As the manager of the community blacklist, I have to peruse through pages upon pages of flame every other week. I've reported a lot of seriously toxic fucking posts there that are still standing. Hell, even I've personally flamed people on the Forums way harder than that and no one batted an eye. The point isn't whether you or anyone else actually think Jae was flaming or not. The point is that staff clearly seem to unilaterally punish players for flaming in alignment with their personal whims rather than with any level of actual objectivity, equity, or consistency.

 

I gave him warning points based on my discretion, my conversation with other staff, and the fact that it broke the rules of the forum. It doesn't matter who it was directed at, I would have doled out the same punishment. And I will continue allocating warning points to users who break the forum rules. I can't catch them all and I don't claim to, so if you see a thread or post that is in violation of the rules, it's up to you (the whole community) to report it.
And the point certainly is that his post was construed as flaming and disruptive, that is why he was given warning points that led to a temporary ban.

 

No offense towards your actions, but you cannot ignore the fact that the way Evan dismissed Jae's opinions and compared it to a children wanting ice cream was very inappropriate and there is definite reason to believe that he incited that response from Jae by responding this way. If you don't think so thats fine, just my own view on it.

 

Serious question.

Has Evan been warned for his behavior too?

Either formally through forum warning points or just in internal staff chat talks.

I don't think the guy is necessarily a bad forum mod. But I do think that he rubs many people the wrong way, and it's obvious based on the community's response to the three threads posted about him today.

The community and staff have friction between them, and if we're being honest, the only people on staff people often specify they have problems with are Matt, Evan, and Andreas, in that order to my perception.

I hope that staff sit down and talk to Evan about his behavior, because from what I see and hear, his attitude towards people is concerning.

I've heard this condescension and dismissal from him on forums or about him from staff or former staff several times now, and I know at least several other people perceive this, so it's not just me. There are instances of Evan coming across as having a chip on his shoulder towards players who make up the meta he dislikes. Those of us with level 200 characters who HP washed so we can do Horntail without Hyper Body that have billions upon billions in net worth of gear. It's totally okay to not like that meta and choose to not participate in it; do what you find fun, that's great!! I'm genuinely happy that people have fun here in different ways. But what's with the attitude towards those of us who are into that meta?

Petty example, but case in point: apparently the server was down for 5 hours at one time and Evan brought up giving players 2x exp cards as compensation. A GM disagreed with that idea since players did not lose anything except 5 hours of gaming time from the downtime. And Evan replied something along the lines of writing off that GM's input because that GM had multiple level 200s.

The point is, the guy's attitude towards people on forums and apparently staff chat sucks sometimes, so if he can try being nicer and more polite towards people without getting antagonistic which makes community-staff relations that much worse, that'd be great.

 

I think sometimes people lose perspective that not everyone plays at the end game, that's all.

I'll post the conversation we had if I get the okay from the Admin, but you kind of opened the door since the GM in question told you about it.

Edit: It was decided that it was best not to post the entire convo, but what I said was okay.


I didn't think a GM buffs was sufficient to compensate for a 5 hour downtime and a 5 minute rollback.

I know lots of level 200 players and I don't have issues with those who are 200. I just felt that since we do re-warps for bossers, why should we ignore the time other players (in this case the lower level grinders) lost? I felt a 2x card for 4 hours was of greater benefit to people, since they could grab it from the Maple admin at their leisure, instead of having to be on at a specific time for a GM buff.

 

Everyone has their own way they have fun on this game, and that's great! I don't look down on the people who don't participate in the endgame content, so I hope you don't look down on people who do. It just seems that way based on how you talked to that GM and others on multiple occasions from what I've been told. I would've given a better example of your attitude, but I only got permission to recount the above instance from the GM who told me about it. Not sure what tone is behind "you kind of opened the door" has, but maybe it's worth mentioning my slight puzzlement over that phrasing so perhaps you can understand how people feel you come off antagonistic at times. Anyway, I just hope you try to be more polite to people and try a professionalism that befits your staff position. That'll help the current community-staff dynamic, which is all I really care about.

 

Simply you brought it up, so I didn't think it was out of the question to name the GM by name if I posted the convo. I opted not to, and blotted out their name in what i said.