[Master List] HP Washing/AP reset Feedback

Evan · Jun 10, 2020

So.

This is not the place to discuss whether or not HP washing is good or bad, or if it's ruining the game or whatever. ANY posts that do so will be deleted.

The list is in order which I found them in the forum (so when the last post was made). The goal here is to consolidate all the recent feedback on HP washing and AP resets, and to allow a place for people to argue X over Y, or Z over X, without cluttering the current threads with discussions on other threads (their own threads should be all about itself (ex: "I think the quest should be level 190, not 180"). The very least, this will be stickied and allow people to locate the threads quickly without the search bar (in the event the discussion dies down enough for stuff to reach farther pages)

Some links to help get you up to speed on what HP washing is...

Fully Revised HP washing guide

HP Washing Calculator (for those who want to visualize what sort of changes happen when you mess with classes/stats)

If I missed a thread please let me know.

Updated: 5/21/2020

1) An Idea to make HP/MP Washing Optional

ImJakeFromStateFarm said: ↑

TLDR:
You basically keep your IGN, HP, MP, and you have to stick with w/e class and job you used to reach 200. Everything else will be the same as if you make a new character.

The purpose of this idea is NOT making HP/MP washing easier, and it is NOT trying to change the current HP/MP washing leeching culture in MapleRoyals.

A crazy idea hit me this morning.

Topic regarding HP/MP wash I have heard and seen are:

Hp/Mp washing takes the fun out of the game.

Ap reset's demand is higher than the supply that's why the prices kept going up.

Hp/mp washing cost too much. Not viable for casual players.

Hard to find HB due to the Royals' current bossing meta/culture. Lack of quality if life/game play for non-washed characters in end game.

Putting if HP/MP washing is necessary talk aside, the idea that I have may help address some of these issues.

What if you have an option to keep your current HP and MP, but lose everything else on your character including level (roll back to lv 1 on maple island), AP stat, skills/skill points, and quest accomplished when you reach 200?

This proposal will not allow you to by pass level requirement to wield high lvl weapon, and will not allow you to change job or class. Youll have to play the same class/job and play the same way that you did when you hit Lv 200.

So for those of who just want to enjoy the game without bothering with HP washing, he or she can just enjoy the game, grind it out to 200, do the HP/MP roll back quest, and enjoy the game some more without ever worry about going through the leeching, buying ap reset, and washing process.

For those people who already washed, they may want to do this Lv 200 roll back quest as well so they can play the low level content of the game that they missed due to leeching/washing. Again it is completely optional, and will not make your character stronger than before by any means if you have the same gear.

This may do the following as secondary effect to the other parts of the game:

Lower the demand for AP reset and lower the price. Therefore decrease the incentive for vote abuse to sell AP reset

This may redirect more NX towards Gachapon instead of AP reset therefore increase the supply and decrease price of white scrolls and chaos scrolls.

This may give people's non washed characters a second chance instead of quit or remake due to lack of washing.

This may increase foot traffic of the low level area and PQs.

Just a thought.

Edit: if you voted no, disagree, think this is a bad idea, or think this might be game breaking please share your thoughts so I can think outside of my own box to see from your perspective.
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2) Add a high level questline to increase base HP

FireHeart said: ↑

Suggestion:

Add a high level questline to increase one's base HP. The goal is to give players more of a choice to not wash without sacrificing a large chunk of end game content.

Quest Details:

Quest level requirement: 180

Total HP gain: I would suggest 3.5k extra for ranged and 5k extra for melee. I arrived at these number because BM/NL only have 4k hp at level 180, and the absolute minimum HP to Horntail is 7.6k hp

Note, these numbers could be changed, but are just my suggestions. By keeping the numbers reasonable, HP washing will still be widely used for people wanting to boss safer, earlier, and participate in all bosses.

Pros:

Gives hope for unwashed characters

Washing would still be very useful

Retains the accomplishments of players who have already washed

Cons:

Must be balanced carefully

In the long run could affect the bossing meta, leeching meta or economy

Final Thoughts:

All HP washing suggestions face the same complications of not wanting to degrade existing players' accomplishments given that this server is 4 or 5 years old. But, I think this suggestion could work because all aspects of the quest are scalable: amount of HP rewarded, level requirement, and difficulty of the questline. In other words, the quest can be balanced to give players a viable alternative to washing, while not replacing it.

One thing I forgot to mention is that this suggestion would also help people who already washed before Castellan Toad came out, so don't have enough hp. Also will help people in the event Pink Bean is ever released (lol).

I would enjoy discussing this idea with anyone or reading any feedback. Thank you for your time
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3) maxHP increase for high-level characters

PhotonSphere said: ↑

Change Logs:

2018/01/17: Thread created.

2018/04/05: Added Solution 2 (increasing maxHP through bossing). Added constraints that cap maxHP gain to minimize side-effects. Added response to the concern that HB will be less useful. Renamed thread. The poll above no longer applies to the content after this update.

Problem

One major problem about HP washing is that, if you start doing it at high levels, then:

It may be impossible to achieve certain HP goals.

Even if it is still possible to achieve lower HP goals, it is much more expensive to do so (compared to starting from low levels).

Many players had to restart characters due to this fact, which sucks. Others complain about having to add base INT and missing early game content.

To solve this problem, I suggest making it possible for high-level characters to increase their maxHP, as long as they are willing to put in the effort.

Solution 1: Direct Mesos to HP Conversion

For example, NPC could sell a usable item that increases your maxHP by 16 for 25M mesos.

The exact price can be further discussed and adjusted. Other constraints can also be applied (e.g. highest maxHP that ranged characters can gain through this method is 10K). See the "Concerns" section below for more discussions.

Solution 2: Increasing maxHP Through Bossing

This is not an original idea from me. This idea has already been implemented by other pre-big-bang servers. It's like mastery books, but for HP.

In this solution, popular bosses (e.g. Zakum and Horntail) has a chance to drop an untradeable usable item that, when consumed, has a chance to increase maxHP by a certain amount.

Each boss drops maximum of 1 such item. The drop rate and success rate upon consumption can be adjusted to make this approach as easy or difficult as we want.

Moreover, constraints can be added to limit how many times a character can successfully consume the item. In one private server where this is implemented, each character can successfully consume the Zakum HP drop up to 5 times. Same goes for the Horntail HP drop.

The highest maxHP gain is class-dependent. Here are the reference values directly copied from one server that implemented this solution. Of course, we can have different values here:

Paladin: 4,000
Dark Knight: 4,000
Hero: 4,000
Fire/Poison: 500
Ice/Lightning: 500
Bishop: 500
Bowmaster: 2,000
Marksman: 2,000
Shadower: 2,000
Night Lord: 2,000
Buccaneer: 3,000
Corsair: 2,000

Paladin: 5,000
Dark Knight: 5,000
Hero: 5,000
Fire/Poison: 500
Ice/Lightning: 500
Bishop: 500
Bowmaster: 2,500
Marksman: 2,500
Shadower: 4,000
Night Lord: 2,500
Buccaneer: 3,000
Corsair: 2,500

Eventually, after consuming maximum number of HP drops, and without any additional washing, each class should reach the minimum HP to Horntail without Hyper Body.

Advantages

1. It is not unfair to the players who have already washed.

If the cost is set high enough in Solution 1, or the drop rate & success rate is set low enough in Solution 2, these solutions require same or more effort as conventional washing.

2. People no longer need to restart characters just because they learned about HP washing late.

3. People no longer need to add base INT and buy low-level leech just because they are washing. They can still train / PQ / enjoy other early game content.

Concerns and My Responses

1. AP reset market will be affected.

AP reset price may drop due to lower demand.

Moreover, as @Venin pointed out, players lose a stable source of income from their NX, and will now need to rely on gach and pray to RNG god.

My response: if the solutions above require more effort than conventional washing, and if the maxHP gain via new methods are capped at a certain amount (e.g. 10K maxHP for ranged character), then many people will still choose conventional washing with AP resets. Therefore, the AP reset market will be less affected.

2. The INT gear market will be affected. Thanks @Enticing for pointing it out.

My response: Similar to the first concern. If the proposed changes are properly implemented, many people will still prefer conventional washing, and effects on INT gear market will be lessened.

3. The leeching market will be affected. Thanks @Venin for pointing this out.

My response: Similar to the concerns above, effect can be controlled by proper implementation.

Moreover, I don't think high level leech will be affected that much. People buy high-level leeches not only because they are washing, but also because manual grinding is so slow compared to leech at those levels. For example, grinding 4 levels at LV90 could take more than 5 hours, but only costs 35M in ULU2 split leech (1 day of voting NX).

4. With this change, people can make 30K HP 30K MP mages, as @Kleric pointed out.

My response: It is already possible to wash to 30K HP as a magician now. You just need to MP wash for 150+ levels and convert all of those MP to HP.

Moreover, as discussed above, constraints can be added so that mages cannot reach 30K HP using the proposed methods alone.

5. It is not good for the Dark Knight class if fewer players are relying on Hyper Body.

My response: I want to point out that the current meta does not necessarily lead to a high demand for HB. Instead, many players still choose to wash to a point where they can complete boss runs without HB, due to the following reasons:

It requires MUCH more effort to organize runs with HB.

Attackers simply don't want to reply on HB for their survival. For example, if the Dark Knight DCs, or if the boss dispels and Dark Knight doesn't immediately rebuff, those who are dependent on HB will die. Few people are willing to put themselves under such risk if there are ways to avoid it. In particular, most people who invested tens of billions to reach the damage bar of Horntail will do everything they can to avoid being in such a situation.

Therefore, even if the proposed changes are applied, the status of HB will not change much. It is not required in most runs now, and it will not be required in most runs after the proposed changes are implemented. It is still a very nice buff, in the sense that even if an attacker has the minimum HP to survive Horntail, extra 60% HP still makes the run much safer.

I understand that administration wants to create an environment where HB is a vital part of most boss runs, because balanced classes sounds nice. However, it is simply not what's happening in the server right now, and it's probably already too late for that to ever happen. Given this situation, I believe the proposed changes will neither benefit nor harm the status of Dark Knights and HB, and therefore should be implemented due to the benefits I mentioned above.
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4) Make AP resets cost 250nx or even free instead of 3100nx each.

Distilled said: ↑

This 3100 cost is absurd considering how many new players make mistakes, and considering how many AP resets are necessary in order to HP/MP wash.
I can already hear the angry screams of players who have painstakingly saved their nx for years to HP wash. To that I say "out with the old and tedious, and in with the new and enjoyable experience."
Isn't it better to stimulate more population by making something so ridiculously tedious a thing of the past rather than hold on to it for the sake of those who've already suffered with it?
This could actually attract players and make existing players who are thinking of leaving NOT leave because of the tediousness involved.

I know HP/MP washing can't be eliminated since it's already a part of so many player's character's builds. I wish it could be eliminated since it's literally taking advantage of an old game flaw/bug, but that would be too much work at this point. So why not lower the damn prices on AP resets? People have plenty of things to spend NX on as it is.

I've heard the argument "but it's optional. You don't have to do it". Well when people expect you to do it because most of the population already does take advantage of this game bug, not doing it is like asking to be shunned. Sure not everyone would shun you, but I've literally seen people say "30K or gtfo". What does that tell you?
Of course most people will feel obligated to HP/MP wash.

How it is now:
I'm leveling with my friend. I level up. "Oh I ran out of NX. Better halt my progress for TWO DAYS STRAIGHT to save enough NX for 5 AP resets before I level again because I feel obligated to HP wash".

How I wish it was:
I'm leveling with a friend. I level up. I easily afford the 5 AP resets needed. I continue leveling with my friend and continue enjoying the damn game.

Does this sound like an enjoyable gaming experience as it is now?
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5) AP Resets being sold by Albert

auntjaemima said: ↑

The new level 50 requirement definitely hurts vote abusers, but it has also artificially inflated the market. There are (probably) tons of AP resets in circulation, but people, merchants likely, are holding on to them in the hopes that they'll increase in price. This however, as noted, artificially inflates the price of AP resets simply because there are not enough being sold at this time.

AP resets are still a safe source of mesos for newer players (@ their current price you are able to make 300m100m) every 31k nx - which is a fairly decent transfer rate given that the average 35ticket run at mushroom shrine yields maybe 150m. I believe that if AP resets were to be sold from Albert, for, say, 12mil then newer players would still be able to sell ap resets for quick and easy money @ 10mil each while still allowing people to avoid the hassle of sitting in FM for days acquiring the thousands of AP resets they need for a wash. I discussed this in the shoutbox with a few other users, and there were some talks of adding a cap to the number that can be purchased from Albert; however, I think this is inherently flawed. Albert selling AP resets would be, purely, a convenience thing as well as a solid meso sink. For a lot of people that increase would raise the cost of their wash by 2b, but having an unlimited supply, at least, to me, seems to be a fair trade-off.

Anyways, how do people feel about this idea?
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6) Make the quest specialist medal give HP

Ayane said: ↑

I think an idea to help with the washing problem would be to give this medal a +3500 HP buff or so.
It would be an alternate way to wash while exploring cities instead of leeching, and considering how long it would take to complete 800 quests normal washing would still be faster and more efficient.
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7) Matt's Progress Update (Part about HP washing)

Matt said: ↑

We have also been looking into possible solutions to help alleviate issues surrounding the lack of HP to be able to do certain bosses, HP washing in general and AP resets. We've been listening to your feedback regarding character HP and how it's an issue for some content and we've taken your suggestions in consideration as well as adding some of our own ideas. Things that we are currently considering to implement or make changes to include:
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Matt said: ↑

Increasing maxHP on job advancement medals.

Implementing a quest that rewards you with HP each time you complete it, up to a cap.

Adding maxHP to Mu Lung Dojo Belts (Will be made available with the release of Mu Lung Dojo).

Implementing a maxHP medal available from a quest related to GPQ.

Increasing the amount of maxHP gained from job advancements (This will retroactively be refunded to players who have already advanced).

Implementing the Mark of Naricain with it's default +300 maxHP with the release of CWKPQ.

Implementing a craftable potion which temporarily increases the player's maxHP.

We are yet to decide on specifics for some of the above, however we are targeting to make available a boost of around 2000 HP for anyone not a Mage or Warrior, and around 4000 HP for Warriors.
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New updated list!

1) An Idea for HP Washing

I feel like the problem with hp washing is the realisation that you cannot progress further into the game without doing so early on in the game.

Alot of people I meet literally quit because they reached around lv 135 or so and realised they couldnt progress and partake in a number of the game's bosses because they didn't know about hp washing before they joined the game.

What I would like to suggest is for there to be an end game mechanic which is completely ridiculous but will somewhat give these players hope to continue on with the game despite not hp washing early on.

As we all know hp washing can cost upwards of 20b(in the case of NL).

My problem isn't with the cost, it's with the way you have to spend the 20b(upping int,leeching,doing so till 135).

This makes it a huge problem for new players that want to play corsair,NL etc to start as one.

These jobs are hard to level as it is and the new players that level these jobs are greeted with the reward of the lack of hp washing and the realization of them not being able to compete in end game bosses.

My solution:
I would like to propose to put a quest for lets say require 1b meso for 100hp.(This is hypothetical,numbers can be tweaked)

This way new players will not give up on their characters as the hope that they will be able to reach 30k hp will remain alive.

Ap resets and hp washing will continue to be a thing as it will be much more cost effective compared to this method so the hp washing economy doesn't go boom.

I believe this proposition will help maintain a lot of the player base as I believe the problem isn't hp washing, it's that you have to do it at the start of the game or you're character is doomed.

Thanks for reading I wrote this idea at 3am so it might be complete nonsense but it's making sense to me at the time of writing.... lol

2) Suggestion | Max MP Questline

Same as you did with +500 max HP but this time with max MP.

It will give opportunity for classes to wash that extra 500 MP (classes can generate 750 HP from that), mages will be happy to receive that extra MP to either wash to HP or keep as MP. it will help people get to new bosses it will not harm players who previously HP washed (since getting that extra 500 MP will surly benefit them and will allow them to generate more HP for harder bosses). Make the items hard to loot so newbies can collect them and sell them for high values (it will help mediocre players get decent money to maybe start a new character and wash it). It will obviously not make this server "easier" just a little help to adjust to new bosses being introduced.

Thank you for reading

3) Increase a character's HP using by completing monster book sets

Hey guys, recently I have been thinking of ways of trying to increasing a character HP. While still playing the game without spending a lot of time on leeching or solving string theory on how hp washing works before playing your favourite character.

So what if we can gain permanent HP increase by doing monster book collection? So for every time you complete a set, you gain a certain of HP. I believe by doing so, we can see other pros like encouraging Maplers to explore different aspect and areas of the game, without grinding all the places the guides or friends says.

Red Tier
Level 1-15

Victoria Island
Bubblings: Kerning City Subway Line 1 <Area 1>
Dark Stump: East Rocky Mountain III
Green Mushroom: The Forest South of Ellinia - Dungeon Southern Forest IV
Green Snail / Mano (Yellow): Thicket Around the Beach III
Octopus: Hidden Street - Caution Falling Down
Pig / Ribbon Pig: Hidden Street: The Pig Beach
Pig / Ribbon Pig: The Rain-Forest East of Henesys
Red Snail / Blue Snail / Slime / Green Mushroom / Stump / Orange Mushroom / Shroom: Henesys Hunting Ground 1
Slime: The Forest South of Ellinia - Dungeon Southern Forest I
Shrooms / Orange Mushroom / Red Snail: Hidden Street - Mushroom Garden:
(best Shroom spawn I can find)
Stump: East Rocky Mountain I

Thailand
Frog: Brilliant Swamp / Frog Pond
White Rooster: Brilliant Swamp

Reward: +100 HP

Orange Tier
Level 17-30

Victoria Island:
Axe Stump / Dark Stump / Dark Axe Stump / Stumpy (Yellow):
East Rocky Mountain V
Blue Mushroom: Hidden Street - The Blue Mushroom Forest
Boar: Hidden Street - Land of the Wild Boar
Evil Eye: Dungeon - Cave of Evil Eye III
Ghost Stump / Wooden Mask: Excavation Site I
Horny Mushroom / Zombie Mushroom: Dungeon - Ant Tunnel I
Jr. Necki: Hidden Street - Swamp of the Jr. Necki
Stirge: Kerning City Subway - Transfer Area
Wooden Mask / Rocky Mask: Excavation Site II

New Leaf City:
Glutton Ghoul: Haunted House: Foyer
Killa Bee: Soul Corridor
Psycho Jack: Haunted House: Toy Room [3]
Rotting Skeleton: Haunted House: Library (bottom floor mostly)
Street Slime / Mighty Maple Eater: Krakian Jungle Basin
Urban Fungus / Boomer: Jungle Valley

Zipangu:
Crow: Crow Forest 2 (use hidden teleporters)
Cloud Fox: Mountain of the Cloud Fox
Genin: Castle Corridor, Nina Castle (Ashigaru same map)
Fire Raccoon: Forest of Animals

Shanghai:
Goat: Mountainous Reign II (spawn is very low in general)
Sheep / Duck / Rooster: Shanghai - Out of the Bridge

Thailand:
Toad: Toad Pond / The Outskirt of Village
Yellow Lizard: Small Jungle (Red Lizard is here too)

CBD:
Batoo: Central Way 2/3(1-3 spawn and there's only two maps. Try ccing)
Biner / Stopnow: Central Way 1

Orbis:
Ice Sentinel: Orbis Tower <13th Floor>
Fairy 1: Cloud Park maps Skip this one
Fire Sentinel: Orbis Tower <11th Floor>
Jr. Sentinel: Orbis Tower <19th Floor>
Sentinel: Orbis Tower <15th Floor>

Ariant:
Bellamoa: Hidden Street -Bellamoa's Cave
Cactus: Cactus Desert 1
Desert Rabbit F / M: Tent of the Entertainers
Ear Plug Plead: The Scorching Desert
Jr Cactus: Hidden Street - Young Catthus Desert
Kiyo: North Desert Road 2
Meerkat: Outside North Entrance of Ariant
Royal Cactus / Deo (Yellow): Hidden Street- Royal Catthus Desert
Scorpion: Sunset Road: Sahel 1 (2 if not finished Sand Rat)
Sand Rat: Sunset Road: Sahel 2 (3 if finished Scorpion)
Scarf Plead: Hidden Street - Filled Field

Ludibrium:
Brown Teddy: Terrace Hall
Green Trixter: Eos Tower <71st Floor>
Trixter: Eos Tower <73rd Floor>

Auqarium:
Bubble Fish: Big Fish Valley
Flower Fish: Sand Castle Playground
Krappy: Blue Seaweed Road
Krip: Hidden Street - The Hidden Town
Pinboom / Seacle: The Sharp Unknown
Seacle / Cico: Hidden Street - Fish Resting Spot

Reward: +100 HP

Light Green Tier
Level 31-45

Victoria Island:
Curse Eye: Tree Dungeon - Forest up North III
Cold Eye: Another Path
Copper Drake: Dangerous Valley I
Crystal Boar: Purplewood Forest 2
Fire Boar: The Burnt Land V or Hidden Street: Dangerous Valley
Iron Hog: Hidden Street - Pig Park II
Iron Boar: Hidden Street - Iron Boar Land
Indigo Eye: Purplewood Forest 2
Jr Boogie: Dungeon: Sleepy dungeon V (cc and kill all. Spawns 5 in a map)
Jr. Wraith: Subway Line - Line 1 <Area 3>
Liagator: The Swamp of Despair III
Lorang: Lorang Lorang Lorang
Lupin: Hidden Street - Monkey Swamp I
Sakura Cellion: Purplewood Forest 2
Skeledog: Remains <Tomb> 1 (Mummy Dog too)
Zombie Lupin: Hidden Street - Tree Dungeon, Money Forest II

New Leaf City:
Baby Typhon: Path of Peril
Electrophant: Krakian Jungle Basin (cc to kill, use teleporters)
Fire Tusk: Fire Chamber (use the teleporters around)
Leprechaun: Phantom Forest: Hidden Evil
I.Am.Robot: Mountain Slopes
Nightmare: Haunted House: Study [3]

Zipangu:
Dark Cloud Fox: Night in the Forest (Paper Lantern Ghost too)
Extra A: Showa Street 1 / 2
Jr Cerebes: Showa Street 1 (with Extra A and Extra B stop once you get A & B)

Shanghai:
Black Goat: Mountainous Region 2 (regular Goat from Orange)
Black Sheep: The Land of Black Sheep (complete all quests from Mr. Yang at Split Road at West)
Cow / Plow Ox: Western Prairie III

Thailand:
Red Lizard: Red Jungle

CBD:
Freezer (CBD): Suburban Area 1
Nospeed: Central Way 3
Octobunny: Mysterious path 2

Malaysia:
Chlorotrap: Outskirts of Muddy Banks

Orbis:
Lunar Pixie: Cloud Park IV / V
Jr. Cellion: Garden of Red I
Jr. Grupin: Garden of Green I
Jr. Lioner: Garden of Yellow I
Nependeath: Disposed Flower Garden (together with Dark Nependeath)
Star Pixie: Cloud Park II

Mu Lung:
Chipmunk: Entrance to Sky Forest / Sky Forest: the Train
Black Porky: Sky Forest: The Train / Deep in the Sky Forest
Blue Flower Serpent: Snake Area / Where the Sky Forest Ends
Red Flower Serpent: Snake Area / Where the Sky Forest Ends
Red Porky: Sky Forest: The Train / Deep in the Sky Forest

Ariant:
Sand Dwarf: The Ruins of Desert Nomads
Dark Sand Dwarf: Desert of Dreams
Desert Giant: Hidden Street: Giant of the Sunset

Magatia:
Cube Slime: Lab Unit - 101
Iron Mutae: Lab - Area A-3 with Reinforced Iron Mutae (if done, go to B-3)
Rumo: Lab Unit - 103
Triple Rumo: Lab Unit 103

Ludibrium:
Black Ratz: Eos Tower: <97th Floor>
Block Golem: Eos Tower <5th/8th floor> (with King Block Golem)
Bloctopus: Eos Tower <9 / 44th>
Chirpy: Eos Tower <75 / 92nd Floor>
Chronos: The Path of Time <3>
Drumming Bunny: Eos Tower <7th / 25th Floor>
Helly: Eos Tower <58 / 92nd Floor>
King Block Golem: Eos Tower <5th / 8th Floor>
King Bloctopus: Eos Tower <22nd / 23rd Floor>
Master Robo: <Process 2> <Zone 2>
Panda Teddy: Sky Terrace <5>
Pink Teddy: Sky Terrace <3>
Planey: Eos Tower <21 / 25th Floor>
Platoon Chronos: Path of Time <1>
Propelly: Eos Tower <57 / 59th Floor>
Ratz: Eos Tower: <99 / 100th Floor>
Retz: Helios Tower <99th Floor>
Robo: Toy Factory <Process 1 / 2 > all zones
Roloduck: Sky Terrace <4 / 5>
Tick / Tick- Tock: Crossroad of Time
Tick-Tock / Timer (Yellow): Whirlpool of Time
Toy Trojan: Cloud Terrace <4 / 5>
Tweeter: Eos Tower <6 / 21st floor>

Omega Sector:
Barnard Gray: Kulan Field I / II
Mateon: Off-Limits
Plateon: Boswell Field III / IV or Plateon Field
Ultra Gray: Hidden Street: Gray's Prairie (while hunting Zeno (Yellow)
Zeta Gray: Kulan Field II

Korean Folk Town:
Moon Bunny: Entrance to Black Mountain

Aquarium:
Freezer: Forked Road: West Sea
Jr Seal / Poison Poopa: Crystal Gorge
Poison Poopa / Freezer: Red Coral Forest
Poopa / Jr Seal: Ocean I.C
Mask Fish: Forked Road: East Sea
Scuba Pepe / Poopa: Hidden Street - Penguin's Playground
Sparker: Forked Road: West Sea or Turban Shell Hill

El Nath:
Cerebes: Cave of Trial II (Finish remaining Jr Cerebes here)
Dark Leatty: Orbis Tower <3rd Floor>
Flyeye: Dead Mines I / IV (if done with zombies, go to The Dangerous Cave)
Jr Pepe: Orbis Tower <1st Floor>
Leatty: Orbis Tower <7th Floor>

Reward: +100 HP

Dark Green Tier
Level 46-60

Victoria Island:
Clang / King Klang (Yellow): Hot Sand
Croco: Dangerous Croco II
Dark Stone Golem / Mixed Stone Golem: Forest of Golem
Drake: Drake Hunting Ground
Skeleton Soldier: Camp 1 / 2
Malady / Faust (Yellow): Hidden Street - Forest of Evil II
Mummydog: Remains <Tomb> 1 (<Tomb> 3 once you get Skeledogs)
Stone Golem: Entrance of Golem's Temple
Red Drake: Dangerous Valley II
Tortie: Hot Sand
Wraith: Subway Line - 1 <Area 4>

New Leaf City:
Dead Scarecrow: Haunted House: Library
Gryphon: Mountain Cliffs (use teleporters)
Hoodoo: Vanity Room [3]
Phantom Tree: kill 5 at Phantom Forest - Bent Tree and cc (or go to each Twisted Path maps and cc)
Sophilia Doll: Sophilia's Bedroom [2]
Voodoo: Sophilia's Bedroom [3] (stopper map)

Zipangu:
Chunin: Castle Corridor, Ninja Castle
Extra B: Showa Street 1
Extra C: Showa Street 2
Firebomb: The Secret Spa (F/M)
Kunoichi: Castle Corridor, Ninja Castle
Nightghost: A Desolate Cemetery
Water Goblin: Vanished Village

Thailand:
Python: Deep Jungle

CBD:
Pac Pinky: Ghost Ship 1
Selkie Jr: Ghost Ship 5
Tippo Red / Tippo Blue: Mysterious Path 1
Trucker: Suburban Area 2

Malaysia:
Dark Fission: Muddy Banks 1
Emo Slime: Outskirts of Muddy Banks
Oly Oly: Muddy Banks 1
Ratatula: Hibiscus Road 2
Scaredy Scarlion: Hibiscus Road 2

Orbis:
Cellion: Garden of Red II
Dark Nependeath: Disposed Flower Garden (together with Nependeath)
Grupin: Garden of Green II
Lioner: Garden of Yellow II
Luster Pixie: Cloud Park VI

Mu Lung:
Book Ghost: Foggy Forest
Grizzly: Wild Bear Area 1
Panda / Tae Roon (Yellow): Territory of Wandering Bear
Reindeer: Peach Farm 3
Straw Target Dummy: Practice Field : Beginner
Wooden Target Dummy: Practice Field : Advanced

Herb Town:
Bellflower Root: 100 Year Old Herb Garden (with Sr. Bellflower Root. If finished, go to 80 Year Old Garden)
Jar / Ginseng Jar: 50-Year-Old Herb Garden (10 year for just Jar)
Sr. Bellflower Root: 100 Year Old Herb Garden

Magatia:
Neo Huroid: Lab - Area C-3
Mithril Mutae: Lab A-1 with Reinforced Mithril Mutae first, then go to B-1 after completing)
Roid: Lab - Area C-1

Ludibrium:
Master Chronos: The Path of Time <4>
Rombot: Hidden Tower (Honestly just skip this lol)

Omega Sector:
Chief Gray: Hidden Street - Gray's Prairie (while hunting Zeno (Yellow)
Mecateon: Mecateon Field
MT-09: Hidden Street - Defeat Monsters. (3 spawns in a map, around 30-ish spawn timer)

Korean Folk Town:
Hodori: Around the Pond
Hogul: Black Mountain <Valley>
Morphed Blin: Top of Black Mountain
Samiho / Nine-Tailed Fox (Yellow): Hidden Street - Moon Ridge

El Nath:
Coolie Zombie: Forest of Dead Trees IV
Dark Jr Yeti: Sharp Cliff II
Hector: / Cold Field I / II / Icy Cold Field
Jr Yeti: Watch Out for Icy Path II
Miner Zombie: Dead Mine II
Pepe: Hidden Street - The Crown-Flyer
White Fang: Cold Field I / II / Icy Cold Field

Reward: +150 HP

Light Blue Tier
Level 61-75

Victoria Road:
Commander Skeleton: Remains <Cliff>
Dark Drake: Cold Cradle
Ice Drake: Cold Cradle (with Dark Drake) if you finished Dark Drake, go to Drake Area
Officer Skeleton: Camp 2 / 3
Tauromacis: Sanctuary Entrance I / II / III / IV (keep ccing)
Taurospear: Sanctuary Entrance III and IV (cc after killing)
Wild Kargo: Wild Cargo's Area

New Leaf City:
Crimson Tree: Lower Ascent (4), The Path of Strength (5) (cc and kill in individual maps first i.e. do 1 map per channel)
Twisted Jester: Haunted House: Library
(there's a room somewhere full of them, but it's not on Pre BB)
Windraider: Tornado Corridor

Zipangu:
Extra D: Finance of Flaming Raccoon (with Leader A, after A, go to Parking Lot)
Leader A: Finance of Flaming Raccoon
Leader B / Female Boss (Yellow): Parlor (Kill mobs at Showa Street 3 while hunting for Male Boss)
Red Slime: The Secret Spa (M/F)

CBD:
Mr Anchor: Ghost Ship 6
Slimy: Ghost Ship 2

Malaysia:
Charmer: Muddy Banks 3
Rodeo: Muddy Banks 2
Froscola: Longest Ride on Byebye Station
Jester Scarlion: Longest Ride on Byebye Station
Yabber Doo: Fantasy Theme Park 2

Orbis:
Jr Lucida / Eliza (Yellow): Stairway to the Sky II (Spawned by Eliza don't kill her...)
Lucida: Garden of Darkness I

Mu Lung:
Peach Monkey: Peach Farm 3
Sage Cat: Goblin Forest 2

Herb Town:
Kru: Red-Nose Pirate Den 2
Mr. Alli: Isolated Swamp

Magatia:
D.roy: Lab C-3
Homunculus: Lab 202
Homun: Lab 201
Saitie: Authorized Personnel Only

Ludibrium:
Buffoon: Warped Path of Time <2>
Buffy / Lazy Buffy: Warped Path of Time <1>
Klock: Forgotten Path of Time <2>
Soul Teddy / Master Soul Teddy: Forgotten Path of Time <1>

Korean Folk Town:
Blue King Goblin: Korean Folk Town Pre-quests
Green King Goblin: Korean Folk Town Pre-quests
Yellow King Goblin: Korean Folk Town Pre-quests

El Nath:
Cerebes: Cave of Trial II
Dark Pepe: Sharp Cliff II
Dark Yeti: Dangerous Cliff
Riche: I don’t think this spawns.
Werewolf: Wolf Territory I and II (cc after killing 4 on each map)
Yeti: Ice Valley I / II

Leafre:
Beetle: Beetle Forest / East Forest
Dark Rash: Peach Monkey Forest
Hobi: Minar Forest: West Border
Rash: West Leafre Forest

Reward: +150 HP

Dark Blue Tier
Level 76-90

New Leaf City:
Firebrand: the Inferno Chamber
Stormbreaker: Stormhall
Wolf Spider: Wolf Spider Cavern

Zipangu:
Bain: Armory (Showa, outside Bodyguard A / B)
Jonin: Castle Corridor, Ninja Castle

Lushan Town:
Black Bear: Foot of the Mountain
White Tiger: Foot of the Mountain

CBD:
Beserkie: Ulu Estate I
Veetron: Ulu Estate II

Malaysia:
Booper Scarlion: Fantasy Theme Park 2
Vikerola: Fantasy Theme Park 3

Magatia:
Homunscullo: Lab 202

Ludibrium:
Dark Klock: Forgotten Path of Time <2>
Death Teddy: Forgotten Path of Time <3>
Deep Buffoon: Warped Path of Time <2>
Dual Ghost Pirate: Hidden Street Unbalanced Time
Ghost Pirate: Warped Path of Time <3>
Master Death Teddy: Hidden Street - Lost Time

El Nath:
Dark Yeti and Pepe: Dangerous Cliff
Lycanthrope: Wolf Territory III / IV / V cc after killing (I would skip this)
Yeti and Pepe: Ice Valley II

Leafre:
Black Kentaurus: Area of the Black Kentaurus
Blood Harp: Sky Nest II
Blue Dragon Turtle: Dragon Forest I (with Red Dragon Turtle)
Blue Kentaurus: Area of the Blue Kentaurus
Birk / Dual Birk: Forest: Crossroad or Valley of the Antelope
Dual Beetle: Beetle Forest
Green Hobi: Steep Hill with Hankie
Hankie: hunt Hobi first at Cranky Forest (after getting Hobi go to Steep Hill)
Harp: Entrance to the Sky Nest
Red Kentaurus: Area of the Red Kentaurus

Aquarium:
Goby: Deep Sea Gorge I (with Bonefish)

Temple of Time:
Eye of Time: All of the Time Lane maps

Reward: +150 HP

Purple Tier
Level 92-105

New Leaf City:
Elderwraith: Phantom Forest: the Evil Dead
Nightshadow: The Wrath of Night
Typhon: The Path of Peril (with Baby Typhon) very slow

Zipangu:
Dreamy Ghost / Black Crow (Yellow): Encounter with the Buddha
Male Boss: Showa Street 3
Ninto: Castle Corridor, Ninja Castle

Lushan Town:
Giant Eagle: Mountain Road 1
Incense Burner Demon: Temple Plaza
Female Burglar: Mountain Road 2
Male Burglar: Mountain Road 2
Temple Block Monster: Temple Plaza

CBD:
Montrecer: Ulu Estate III (difficult if you can't 1 hit, because of stuns)
Slygie: Ulu Estate II

Malaysia:
Gallopera: Entrance to the Spooky World

Ludibrium:
Gigantic Spirit Viking: Hidden Street - Twisted Time
Grim Phantom Watch: Hidden Street - Forbidden Time
Phantom Watch: Forgotten Path of Time <4>
Spirit Viking: Warped Path of Time <4>

Aquarium:
Bonefish: Deep Sea Gorge I
Cold Shark: Grave of a Wrecked Ship
Risell Squid: Dangerous Sea Gorge II
Shark: Grave of a Wrecked Ship
Squid: Dangerous Sea Gorge I

Leafre:
Brexton: Dragon Forest III
Blue Wyvern: Blue Wyvern's Nest
Dark Cornian: the Burning Forest
Dark Wyvern: Canyon : West Road
Green Cornian: hunt at Dragon Forest II for Rexton first, or go to the Burning Forest
Jr Newtie: Destroyed Dragon Nest
Red Dragon Turtle: Dragon Forest I (with Blue Dragon Turtle)
Red Wyvern: Red Wyvern's Nest
Rexton: Dragon Forest II (with Green Cornian)

Temple of Time:
Chief Memory Guardian: Temple of Time
Memory Guardian: Temple of Time
Memory Monk: Temple of Time
Memory Monk Trainee: Temple of Time

Reward: +200 HP

Black Tier
Level 108-120

New Leaf City:
Crimson Guardian: Eternal Vigilance / Crimsonwood Keep (can use doom if using a bishop, warriors are best for this monster)

Zipangu:
Kacchuu Musha: Castle Corridor, Ninja Castle (drop rate is the same as bosses)

Lushan Town:
Bronze Monk: Shaolin Temple Floor 1-2
Giant Gold Monk: Shaolin Temple Floor 7
Giant Silver Monk: Shaolin Temple Floor 3-4
Small Bronze Monk: Shaolin Temple Floor 1-2
Silver Monk: Shaolin Temple Floor 3-4 (with Giant Silver Monk)
Small Gold Monk: hunt Giant Gold Monk first at Shaolin Temple Floor 7 (then go to Floor 5-6 after)
Wulin Yaoseng Clone: Lushan Town Prequests (He's a boss, same thing with Eliza)

CBD:
Duku: Destroyed Park 2
Petri: Ulu City Center

Ludibrium:
Gatekeeper: Warped Passage
Thanatos: Forgotten Passage

Leafre:
Nest Golem: Destroyed Dragon Nest
Skelegon / Skeleosaurus: The Dragon Nest Left Behind

Temple of Time:
Chief Oblivion Guardian: Temple of Time
Chief Qualm Guardian: Temple of Time
Oblivion Guardian: Temple of Time
Oblivion Monk: Temple of Time
Oblivion Monk Trainee: Temple of Time
Qualm Guardian: Temple of Time
Qualm Monk: Temple of Time
Qualm Monk Trainee: Temple of Time

Reward: +200 HP

Yellow Tier
Level 20-160

Victoria Island:
Crimson Balrog: Ship to Ellinia / Orbis
Dyle: Dangerous Croco I & II
Ergoth: Guild PQ Boss
Faust: Hidden Street - Forest of Evil II
Geist Balrog: Amoria PQ Boss
Jr. Balrog: The Cursed Sanctuary
King Klang: Hot Sand
King Slime: Kerning PQ
Mano: Thicket Around The Beach III
Mushmom: Hidden Street - Someone Else's House
Snack Bar: Drake Area
Stumpy: East Rocky Mountain V
Zombie Mushmom: The Grave of Mushmom

New Leaf City:
Hsalf: CWKPQ
Margana: CWKPQ
Master Gawyllacs: CWKPQ
Red Nirg: CWKPQ
Rellik: CWKPQ

Zipangu:
Black Crow: Encounter with the Buddha
Blue Mushmom: Hall of Mushroom
Bodyguard A: The Nightmarish Last Days
Bodyguard B: The Nightmarish Last Days
Castellan: Ninja Castle Pre Quests Boss
Female Boss: Parlor
The Boss: The Nightmarish Last Days

Shanghai:
Giant Centipede: Scary Valley (Shanghai Pre Quests)

Lushan Town:
Wulin Yaoseng: Lushan Town Pre Quest Boss

CBD:
Cap. Latanica: Boat Quay Town Pre Quest Boss
Krex: Ulu City Pre Quest Boss

Malaysia:
Scarlion: Malaysia Pre Quest Boss
Targa: Malaysia Pre Quest Boss

Orbis:
Eliza: Stairway to the Sky II
Papa Pixie: Orbis PQ (level 51-80 only)

Mu Lung:
King Sage Cat: Goblin Forest 2
Mu Gong Merits: Last boss of Mu Lung Dojo
Tae Roon: Territory of Wandering Bear

Herb Town:
Lord Pirate: Pirate PQ (level 71-100 only)

Ariant:
Deo: Hidden Street - Royal Catthus Desert

Magatia:
Chimera: Lab - Secret Basement Path
Frankenroid: SoonTM

Ludibrium:
Alishar: Ludi PQ (level 35-200)
Papulatus: Ludibrium Pre Quest Boss
Timer: Whirlpool of Time

Omega Sector:
Zeno: Hidden Street: Gray's Prairie

Korean Folk Town:
Nine-Tailed Fox: Hidden Street - Moon Ridge

Aquarium:
Pianus Left: The Cave of Pianus
Pianus Right: The Cave of Pianus
Seruf: The Seaweed Tower

El Nath:
Snowman: Hidden Street - Valley of Snowman
Zakum: El Nath Pre Quests

Leafre:
Griffey: Griffey's Forest
Leviathan: Hidden Street: Leviathan's Canyon
Manon: Manon's Forest

Temple of Time:
Dodo: Time Lane: Memory Lane 5
Lilynouch: Time Lane: Road of Regrets 5
Lyka: Time Lane: Road to Oblivion 5
Pink Bean: SoonTM

Reward: +500 HP

Total reward: 2050 HP

Other ways to increase HP (Version 1)

Spring of Water: + 500/1000 HP (Time varies, 4 to 10 + hours)
Blackfist Cloak: + 100 HP (Time varies, CWKPQ bonus stage)
Mark of Narclain: + 300 HP (5 drops per CWKPQ)
Red Dojo Belt: + 150 HP (Time varies, 2 weeks +)
Master Adventurer Medal: + 200 HP (Once you completed 4th job)
Total gainable HP: + 1250/1750 HP

Before and After
Archer/Thief level 155, 175

5403, 5843 (clean)
6653, 7093 (version 1)
8703, 9143 ( v1 + Monster Book)

Gunslinger level 155, 175

5838, 6338, (clean)
7088, 7588, (version 1)
9138, 9638, ( v1 + Monster Book)

Warrior level 155, 175

13006, 14326 (clean)
14756, 16076 (version 1)
16806, 18126( v1 + Monster Book)

Magician level 155, 175

1912, 2152 (clean)
2062, 2302 (Red Dojo Belt)
4112, 4502 (Red Dojo Belt + Monster Book)

Common HP goals for ranged classes

6125 HP: Horntail with Hyper Body
9800 HP: Horntail without Hyper Body
10,188 HP: Castellan (Toad) with Hyper Body
12,000 HP: Shaolin, Dunas and Vergamot without Hyper Body
12,100 HP: Bigfoot touch damage without Hyper Body
16,300 HP: Castellan (Toad) without Hyper Body

Update 1
The rewards value is not firmly set, you can reduce or increase it if you think its better that way. Is just an idea, to make gaining HP more fun without heavily relying on the common ''creating a mage, sell leech, buy APR'' route.

This will not remove HP washing, or make Dark Knight less useful or means automatically everyone get more HP. They still need to work towards it.

Update 2
I realised at the current moment, some cards might be impossible to collect like Lord Pirate, Papa Pixie or due to unreleased content like Pink Bean. Then I would like to re-suggest changing it to basing it on Medal Tier instead.

1. New Collector (30+ sets)
Reward for completion: + 100 HP

2. Renowned Collector (80+ sets)
Reward for completion: + 200 HP

3. Amazing Collector (150+ sets)
Reward for completion: + 400 HP

4. Master Collector (250+ sets)
Reward for completion: + 600 HP

5. Legendary Collector (400+ sets)
Reward for completion: + 750 HP

Special thanks to the owners of these post:
https://royals.ms/forum/threads/monster-book-rankings.137648/
https://royals.ms/forum/threads/monster-book-guide.137657/
https://royals.ms/forum/threads/hp-washing-calculator.111127/
https://royals.ms/forum/threads/water-from-the-spring-of-youth.124038/
https://royals.ms/forum/threads/guide-to-neo-tokyo.146864/

artRAVER · Apr 5, 2018

Adding a ingame item for certain high levels (probably lvl 160+?) would be a decent idea. Or even if the GM's could directly intervene with the inflated market prices to ensure they are properly stabilized(example would be old source market). If Fredrick got AP resets and sold them for *insert rando price here*, and made it so people can buy maybe 5 a day or every 48-72 hours, that'd be an amazing idea as well. I hope something beautiful will come out of all this.

ImJakeFromStateFarm · Apr 5, 2018

Based on my observation ; changes that will make HP/MP washing easier or cheaper will anger the current player base, which result hard push back and resistance.

All the posts listed by OP are comming from different directions, approach it differently, but they all have one thing in common which is seeking improve quality of game play to maximize the MapleRoyals game play potential.

As of now, not saying its good or bad, the culture of MapleRoyals playstyle is HP wash and leech to 135~155 then the character will be used full time.

Sure you can still grind from 1~200, but you will be a minority or an outlier. You either have to solo grind since the PQ and grinding maps are pretty much empty or occupied by leechers. You cant just CC and look for grinding party like you used to in GMS.

Again It's not right or wrong, but it'd be nice to have an quality of life/game play change so that the community is there to play with you regardless of what level you are instead of only 135+.

Edit/insertion: also having HB in bosses today is viewed as a luxury not an necessity. Almost all the boss recruiting smega today dont even mention if HB is provided or not since player base and culture as a whole assume majority of people dont need HB to boss anymore.

On top of that the number of warrior or dark knight is severely disproportional to other classes such as NL. Scarcity of Dark Knight player further degrade the quality of gameplay for non washed or slightly washed players.

Again not right or wrong, but that's the MapleRoyals we have today.

Sen · Apr 5, 2018

Nice! I like this idea of having a consolidated graveyard to represent pages of critical feedback that will continue to be ignored by the admins

Raflos · Apr 5, 2018

Options 4 and 5 wouldn't really solve the problem in my opinion. Having a barrier to entry right from the beginning means that people no longer pick their class based on preference. If a new player does pick their class based on preference, they might be punished for it later by needing to either restart or sacrifice their enjoyment of late-game. Its also making it hard to find people for PQs, and even an active PQ like LPQ requires a thief, while most assassins are leeching.
As for the nostalgia thing, I think most people are nostalgic towards early-game, so less reliance on leeching and ap resets is good. I understand that people are also nostalgic for late-game, but do they also want the party to be reliant on HB for every run they do? Maybe some do, if that's the case then hp washing should be harder.

But to be clear, I'm not saying it should be easier. Which is why I like options 1 and 2. They offer a solution that allows you to play early-game normally while still having to put in some serious work to gain that extra HP later. HP washing requires the use of your brain, and if we took option 2 I would hope that the quest would be equally complicated and challenging.

Rhynamin · Apr 6, 2018

The first statement of the thread stating what this thread "isn't for" basically reads, "We have no plans to consider why HP washing could potentially ruin the gaming experience of any group of players". <-- This is not an image the server team should strive for because it's not considerate of the player base nor does it express any intent to improve the mess that is HP washing.

As for the content explicitly in the post, assuming that the only choice is to keep HP washing as a core part of the MapleStory (when it isn't), option 2 is the best idea. This is, of course, also assuming that the HP washing system we have now is scrapped completely. Otherwise, this is a useless option. Having an additional quest to increase maxHP is brilliant because it's a flexible solution. The quest can be coded to allow multiple completions, or one-time. Multiple completions of the quest will gradually bring your maxHP up after each completion, and the one-time completion should bring the character to the appropriate maxHP to not get 1Hit from HT. Any other way would not really work.

The next best option is #3. Utilizing boss drops to increase players' maxHP will be effective. Again, assuming that HP washing as we know it now is scrapped, this method of increasing maxHP can be molded to area bosses, quests, events, GM events, and even the cash shop. The only problem I see with this is that if only 1 item is dropping, the server should decide which player in the map gets to pick it up. Doing so will avoid any arguments over who should get it and who should not. Additionally, if the dev. team decides not to randomly select which player on the map gets to pick up the maxHP boss item, then another issue will arise, buying and selling of the item. Zakum parties will just resort to selling the maxHP boss item to people like they do with Zakum helmets. This would be border line abuse to this potential alternative.

WHICHEVER method is chosen to REPLACE washing as we know it should be safeguarded from any kind of hoarding, buying, selling, and status. I don't want to see elitist guilds forming from the ashes of the present HP washing method (e.g. players may resort to only recruiting players from certain guilds so that they stay on top of the non-existent leaderboards for bossing). The team has A LOT to discuss! Please, get engaged with players in-game too, not just the forums. Ask NEW players what they think about HP washing AFTER telling them the demise they'll face if they don't conform to doing it.

Enjoy the hefty task set forth before you!

Evan · Apr 6, 2018

Rhynamin said: ↑

The first statement of the thread stating what this thread "isn't for" basically reads, "We have no plans to consider why HP washing could potentially ruin the gaming experience of any group of players". <-- This is not an image the server team should strive for because it's not considerate of the player base nor does it express any intent to improve the mess that is HP washing.
Click to expand...

Or... We go forward with the assumption that it needs to be fixed and that's why I'm listing threads offering possible solutions.

I don't want people here saying "it doesn't need to be fixed", since that isn't what I made this for.

Lol

Edit: Actually confused where you're coming from because the entire point of this is to find a solution. We wouldn't need a solution if nothing needed to be fixed.

Note, this thread is not a guarantee that something will or will not happen. I just got sick of people debating whether or not HP was good or bad in threads offering feedback, and saying "this idea is bad but my idea is better". Just a place to compile everything and discuss/argue it out which solution is the best.

Scab · Apr 12, 2018

99% of the game is designed to be played with normal pre-big-bang hp.
Any solution that increases players hp permanently will remove the challenge from that part of the game.(and lets be honest, if there's anything maple doesn't need it's less challenge)
The only reasonable options are temporary buffs for bosses or re-balancing the bosshp to fit in with the pre-big-bang game.

But since that isn't even considered at least remove options 4 and 5 as they make the problem worse not better.

Tulpe · Apr 13, 2018

Whether AP can be add exchanged at festival activities?

brightsunshine · Apr 13, 2018

Scab said: ↑

99% of the game is designed to be played with normal pre-big-bang hp.
Any solution that increases players hp permanently will remove the challenge from that part of the game.(and lets be honest, if there's anything maple doesn't need it's less challenge)
The only reasonable options are temporary buffs for bosses or re-balancing the bosshp to fit in with the pre-big-bang game.

But since that isn't even considered at least remove options 4 and 5 as they make the problem worse not better.
Click to expand...

Teach me how to survive toad or pb without washing. or even HTs leg|tail mattcks without having to climb to top platform.
In GMS you could buy wheels| of fortune to use in boss maps. Here, washing is the only solution.
but, i agree with what you said about options4&5, it shouldn't be made easier

Scab · Apr 13, 2018

That's what i meant. They can't be done so they should be changed.

Aloysius.K · Apr 16, 2018

Personally, i still think that AP resets being sold by Albert is a great idea.

auntjaemima said: ↑

. I believe that if AP resets were to be sold from Albert, for, say, 12mil then newer players would still be able to sell ap resets for quick and easy money @ 10mil each while still allowing people to avoid the hassle of sitting in FM for days acquiring the thousands of AP resets they need for a wash.
Click to expand...

Evan · Apr 19, 2018

@nichot

I added Matt's progress update post to the list, I think this is probably the best place to discuss it. Hope that helps!

xmetallica21 · Apr 19, 2018

As much as I hate Ap resets being a part of the economy I feel that it is a neccessary nx sink. I have suggested in the past that they be lowered to around 1k where I feel it is fair and affordable even for new players. I feel if you completely remove them as an nx item prices of gach items will be significantly lower to the point where godly gear is very easily obtainable. If you lower the prices of resets with nx they are affordable with either nx or meso and in turn prices of cs/ws and other gach items won't take a huge hit in value and would also be something players can afford more easily. I feel like this in addition to an increase in max hp through a quest at a decent level (say around 135-155) somewhere around there, can easily make the game much more fun to play for veterans and new players.

nichot · Apr 19, 2018

Evan said: ↑

@nichot

Thanks Evan !

Was curious on the actual situation being a very important one.
Click to expand...

Daniuz · Apr 27, 2018

PROPER WAY TO REMOVE HP WASH
(WITH BENEFITS FOR PLAYERS WHO ALREADY WASHED)
EVERYBODY WINS!!

0.- Get the "base" HP formula for each job.
1.- Check if the characters did wash: CURRENT_HP higher than BASE_HP:
1.1.- Create new database columns in user table (all values with 0 as pre-set value):

OLD_HP: Will store the HP from the player before changes.

NORMAL_HP: Will store the HP without washing of the specific job.

EXTRA_HP: Will store the extra HP compared to the base_hp (if applies).

AP_RESET: Will store the AP Reset used by the player to wash.

JOB_HP: Will store the specific job average HP obtained per level to get BASE_HP.

TOTAL_HP_JOB: Get the total hp that player gets from the sum of the job advancements.

1.1.- TOTAL_HP_JOB: This can be obtained doing a conditional (yes this will benefit those who are not 4th job yet):

WHERE LEVEL < 121 AND JOB_ID=????

1.2.- Update JOB_HP for each job:

JOB_HP = (AVERAGE HP OBTAINED PER LEVEL) WHERE JOB_ID=????;

1.2.- Update NORMAL_HP:

NORMAL_HP = (HP_AT_LEVEL1 + TOTAL_HP_JOB + LEVEL-1 * JOB_HP) WHERE (JOB_ID=???);

1.3.- Copy all the CURRENT_HP to OLD_HP.

UPDATE OLD_HP = CURRENT_HP;

2.- Check if character washed:

Update EXTRA_HP = (OLD_HP - BASE_HP) WHERE (OLD_HP > BASE_HP);

3.- Reset all the characters to NORMAL HP, so:

UPDATE CURRENT_HP = NORMAL_HP;

4.- Divide the EXTRA_HP in the average number of HP added per AP Reset (I think its 30 hp average for all jobs):

AP_RESET = EXTRA_HP/30

5.- Now that you have the AP_RESET number for every single user, you can refund them for the cost of NX CASH.

6.- EVERYBODY WINS!

¿Too hard to understand? Don't worry I will put an example:

Example:
NightLord, Level 200 washed to 13000 HP (all the values are estimated and not real):

JOB_ID = 412

LEVEL = 200

CURRENT_HP = 13000

JOB_HP= 20 (I think this is the average HP gain for thiefs per level)

TOTAL_HP_JOB = 1500 (My char is level 200, so this value is the HP obtained doing all the job advancements)

HP_AT_LEVEL1 = 300 (I really dont know this lol)

NORMAL_HP = 5780 which is (HP_AT_LEVEL1 + TOTAL_HP_JOB + LEVEL-1 * JOB_HP) WHERE (JOB_ID=???)

NORMAL_HP = 300 + 1500 + (200-1)*20 WHERE JOB_ID=412 this is equal to = 5780

EXTRA_HP = 7220 which is 13000 - 5780

AP_RESET = 241 which is 7220/30

Now that we got the AP_RESET number for this NightLord we can just multiple it by NX Cash, so we can refund in nx cash spent in AP Resets (or other kind of compensation that equal to ap reset number)

So, what do you guys think?

Tsue · Apr 27, 2018

If you did that you would instantly pump a huge amount of NX into the economy and could crash the prices of ws / cs (which are often used for currency) and drive up the relative value of mesos.

Daniuz · Apr 27, 2018

Tsue said: ↑

If you did that you would instantly pump a huge amount of NX into the economy and could crash the prices of ws / cs (which are often used for currency) and drive up the relative value of mesos.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's the counter, there could be a mass deflation on prices until everybody wastes their NX. Well still that's just a proposal that you can actually get the amount of "Ap resets" used and with that you can compensante somehow the players.

ilyssia · May 21, 2020

Maybe we could have an exchange quest that rewards players with +2000 hp medal that will expired after 3 days or using NX to purchase a temporarily max HP increase coupon?

I do not want to the game to punish players who do not hp wash their characters or force them play mages to leech in order to gains funds for ap reset

ImJakeFromStateFarm · May 9, 2018

ShiraGrey said: ↑

NX to purchase a temporarily max HP increase coupon?
Click to expand...

We dont need another nx sink like FM shop to further inflate ws/cs market.

We need more nx going toward gach/ap resets.

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