You deleted one of my posts that had 20+ likes and that just crosses a line. *channels inner michael* *takes deep breath* First off, as a disclaimer: I was a Forum Moderator for a different private server many ages ago, one that was much larger than Royals now and one that was also the largest during its time. As such, I've spent a majority of my past two years in the feedback threads defending the actions of server administration and staff as a whole every time they've come under fire. The last time someone made a "let's collectively shit on Evan" thread, I was the only person who publicly defended him. And I did it because I know exactly how fucking hard it is. Forum moderation in particular is an especially thankless job. Because unlike Game Masters, you can't actually provide positive content for players, you can only remove negative content. No one can say "thank you for removing all the phishing scam spambots from the forums," because no one will ever see that shit. That being said, there comes a point where even I must admit that there is a serious issue with the way that forums are currently being moderated. The suspension of outspoken players. The magical disappearance of harmless posts. The insistence of honest and equitable community management despite damning proof otherwise. As such, I believe the following are the crux of the issues regarding recent forum moderation that many people have brought up either explicitly or implicitly, and they will be contextualized by my previous experience as a Forum Moderator as well as my current experience as an involved community member of this server. 1. Forum Moderators have in-game influence. I don't think anyone would have issues with Evan saying what are apparently incorrect things about the game if he didn't have a say amongst staff about changes in-game. Having an often controversial opinion regarding the state of this game is fine. But when your knowledge of the functions of this specific server is limited by your experience of the game, your resulting influence over the game will naturally be met with skepticism and even resistance. We must consider that the whole point of having staff in the first place is to provide a positive experience for the community as a whole. That clearly can't happen if you, as staff, are directly contributing to sweeping changes that explicitly oppose the needs and wishes of said community. Additionally, we must consider the fact that the existence of a "Forum Moderator" position necessitates an inherent distinction from a "Game Master" position. When I was Forum Moderator, I had absolutely no say over the progression of in-game mechanics (nor did I care to lmao). And I don't see why they should here and now. Because if they do, then what's the point of having a Forum Moderator in the first place? Might as well just pick up more GMs who have been performing the exact duties of a Forum Moderator for the 5 years before the position was even introduced. Especially since y'all can definitely use more GMs in-game anyways lmao. 2. There is no transparency behind the reasoning of staff actions. Back when I was Forum Moderator, whenever we deleted a post it wouldn't actually be completely deleted. It would simply be replaced by a little snippet which read: "Post deleted because X." The obvious exceptions to this would be serial clutter by spammers or bots. But what it ultimately allowed for was transparency of staff actions. People can see that certain posts were deleted, and gain a glimpse of why these posts were deleted. People can even occasionally understand by specific example which types of behavior were unacceptable. Of course, this is subject to limitations of the website. And I will also acknowledge that a recent step in the right direction has been sending a notification to players whose posts have been deleted. But I believe that these notifications should be available publicly, so that people are not left wondering where certain points of discussion have disappeared off to. This is especially important in the light of recent forum moderation where staff have deleted a staggering number of posts based on personal whims (or rather, collective whims apparently as if that makes anything better lmao) despite the fact that it does not break any of the current forum rules. Hmm... maybe it's high time for an upgrade of "Forum Rules & Regulations 2.0" to a clearer set of 3.0 specifications. 3. There is no consistency behind the enforcement of forum rules. I think this here is the crux of the issue. Because recent staff actions in the forums have been met with resistance by the community despite transparency (even though said transparency occurred after the fact). Additionally, there is clearly more at stake considering the fact that players who post "flame" get suspended but their flame remains standing for god-knows-what reason. And I can't help but raise some hella :thonking: emotes and question whether your motives really had to do with maintaining the peace and integrity of the thread after all. But I digress. The point here is this: there is an undeniable lack of consistency in the enforcement of forum rules. For example, take a look at Exhibit A: https://image.filehostingsite/bX1Ugc/fuck_staff.png The two posts that I had referenced in the thread, one of which called players "whiny bitches" and the other of which insinuated that certain players have "an inability to read" as shown above, are still left standing and unpunished. Not that most of us would actually find personal qualms with these posts, but we can all clearly agree that these statements are clearly much more likely to incite "flame" than posts than those that have recently led to individual suspensions. Furthermore, I can personally attest from personal experience that I have not only posted myself, but have also reported multiple posts that are clearly more egregious than aforementioned examples that have ultimately been left unpunished. Obviously I'm not going to go around and find additional examples—partly because the search function is disabled, but mostly because I don't think I need to provide additional proof of a phenomenon that most of you have clearly recognized for yourselves by now. Lastly, however, I do have to be fair and call out the fact that this community as of now is incredibly toxic—increasingly moreso than it has been in the past. And to be perfectly fair, I'm definitely not an exception to this observation. And to concede even further, much of it has to do with the circular nature of staff oversight causing community tension and vice versa. But honestly like damn, if I was staff I wouldn't be posting on any thread whatsoever because I'd be too afraid of getting roasted lmao. And that points to a much-needed attention to the case that maybe as members of the community ourselves, we too, can fulfill our individual roles in making these forums less shitty. So... Where do we go from here? I would like to specifically request that no members of staff post in this thread, even if you wish to "speak as a player not staff" or whatever lmao. To be perfectly honest, I don't value your opinions regarding the state of staff behavior considering that your position forces you to have a personal stake in those opinions. Furthermore, staff here as a whole have had a consistent record of responding to every piece of critical feedback defensively rather than proactively (although justifiably so at times). Regardless of your intentions, I ultimately find involving staff in any discussion of this sort largely pointless—at least for the time being. But like, I guess I can't stop you if you really want to. As such, this thread exists solely to serve as a space for the community to reflect on ways we can pursue meaningful change for the server, ways the staff as a whole can improve from here on out, and whether or not you actually think either of those things are even necessary in the first place. And also for you to just bitch to your heart's content—about anything really. I know I just called y'all toxic af (because honestly it's true), but I still have confidence that most of you here genuinely care about improving the state of this community as well as the experience it has to offer. I look forward to thoughts that anyone will have, although I personally will not be here to engage with any of the responses to this thread. As things stand, I honestly don't see the point of posting in the forums when half our posts are getting deleted, and I currently have certain real-life needs that I should be prioritizing (@Penny lmaooo). That being said, thank you for taking the time to read through this wall of text. TL|DR - Just bring back @Charlie and make him admin because at this point he can spawn as many fucking p slimes as he wants he'll still do a better job of managing this server lmao
This is pretty much all I could hope to have said in a thread like this. As I'm sure many of you know, I was recently forum banned for pointing out the consistent lack of knowledge in a certain staff member's posts. While my post was tactless, and, more or less, deserved a ban, so to was the post that I was responding to - a post in which a certain member of staff compared my insights and feedback (which was really only meant to point out an issue and act as a baseboard for a potential solution... which I might add has still yet to receive any semblance of a response) was analogous to the incessant ramblings of a petulant child (I guess it did receive a response lol). Regardless of intent, that was the message that was sent - and that is the way the message was interpreted by most members of the community. That I would be banned for flaming, and not have an opportunity to defend myself, whilst the forum moderator in question would receive no ban and have every opportunity to say, "lol that's not what i meant!!" is actually a disgusting example of how big of a joke this place is. @Tim outright stated that "the staff member in question consistently posts things in a tactless and, at times, ruthless way, but he means well" as if to imply that I, or anyone else, don't feel the exact same way about me. All this is just to say, stop being defensive - just be better.
You made a constructive feedback post and end with this... This to me just takes away so much from the rest of your post. The community has to be less toxic, but you yourself (as you also admit in this thread) contribute to this toxicity, even in the feedback post in which you pretty much say that 'we' as a community have to make things better..
the trick to getting away with trolling in the feedback section is to sneakily embed it at the end of a lengthy and otherwise constructive post ///inb4 delete///
I aired my own grievances about the community elsewhere just last night. I’ve thought about how the game and its community have deteriorated for quite a while. And I honestly believe it all started with new source. The community vs. staff combativeness really started on January 1, 2017. Hundreds of angry people complaining about the 24 hour patch that was extended multiple times. Hundreds of angry people who logged on to find a broken game. Hundreds of angry people who just gave up here as time went on. I don’t believe that’s an exaggeration either. January-February 2017 the game was unplayable. You would dc from Zakum especially so many times that staff would rewarp you to Zak just on the honor system because it was so extremely frequent. Multiple skills were broken like Meso Explosion that made some classes completely unplayable. Scrolling, trading, shops all had to be fixed over this time. The game was so bad that it caused massive backlash. March-April 2017 I distinctly remember that a now closed private server opened and it was actually a sort of Royals refugee camp. Multiple friends of mine, including staff members, went there while waiting for Royals to get fixed. Needless to say, many people wandered to play elsewhere and some never came back. May-June 2017 I recall very well. I was very, very active in feedback threads at this time, as were many other people. We saw the problems that were occurring, we made the pleas for fixes, we saw how little transparency there was from staff, and we saw how little change actually happened. Even now it makes me sad remembering how I’d type long posts and do my best to present a well laid out argument and not get a word back from official staff input. I gave up. It wasn’t worth all the effort anymore. To put in so much time and effort in make impassioned posts advocating for what I truly believed then was the best for not myself but for the game I loved and to not get a single acknowledgement, much less conversation engagement, with staff, it just wasn’t worth it. And I think other people saw that too, how to our perception, we were truly ignored. The way we got where we are today was a process. It started with a premature bad decision to implement new source that broke the game and infuriated people. That was the first blowup. But the ongoing detachment people underwent from this game is how it got this bad. Seeing that the grass is greener on the other side as people explored other servers, communities, and staff personalities definitely made it easier for people to lash out here on Royals, and do so much quicker at that. And the staff mismanagement of the community that started so long ago has alienated people from staff members and eroded that starry eyed respect and admiration GMs once garnered here. Now, players are more apt to be entitled to pester for GM help and blindly blame GMs for things that truly aren’t their fault. The staff member the people above speak of has earned the distaste of much of the community due to how they act around some community members. In all honesty, I feel if they would be removed, this would alleviate tension. They’re a scapegoat for many people’s frustrations but they also conduct themselves in such a manner that feeds into the toxic atmosphere here. Since they will not be removed from their position, I would hope that other staff members would correct their approach with people here in a manner that befits their staff position. It’s very us vs. them here. I think everyone can see that. There’s a thin veneer of frustration, resentment, and rudeness almost everywhere in feedback posts now, and this post is no exception. To those of staff who try outreaching to the community and engaging with it in a friendly way, thank you. To those of staff who don’t say much here on forums but do so much work in game, thank you. To those of staff who aren’t even around, either be more visible on forums or in game or even in staff chat. If not, just resign, what’s the point being there if you’re not doing anything? And to those of staff who stir the pot here, you’re a staff member. You ARE held to a higher standard. Every well respected well known person on forums here is, including myself, and I’m well aware of it. If you genuinely care about the game, think before you act. And if you don’t genuinely care deep down, just leave. As far as members of the community go, I think some people here are so quick to start drama, fight, and generally be toxic to other people. I do it myself by just even making this post since I’m contributing to the drama here lol. But really, I’m so fucking tired of seeing people say nostalgia this nostalgia that when Royals is almost five years old and by virtue of how long it has existed, it isn’t nostalgic. It’s not going to be. Accept it. Accept that the older players are much stronger, much richer than you. They’ve been playing for YEARS and it’s silly to expect to have the same thing after MONTHS. HP washing isn’t nostalgic fine but so what? That’s a huge part of meta Royals and if you don’t like it, you don’t have to do it. Making progress on this game takes TIME. A lot of it. And people are so wealthy and so efficiency oriented that no, they’re not going to go do PQs with you because the exp for them isn’t worth the effort over just buying leech. I get it, all of this sucks. I agree. But it’s reality. So either accept Royals for what it is and isn’t and play, or just go somewhere else. It’s ridiculous to make these massive upheaval changes after all the players before you in the last five years have just accepted and worked with it. What makes the game so much harder for new players these days? When it’s actually easier to buy WS, CS, even AP Resets now than it was to get those things in old source..? But at the end of the day, what I'd really love to see is to see Matt back. Our server owner who in a perfect world would read through feedback threads, quote people, agree, disagree, and ask questions. Give his own line of reasoning, clearly approve ideas he wants and clearly deny ideas he utterly doesn’t want. God knows how long people were pushing for the return of the FM button until he finally came out and said he doesn’t want it back, ever. It’s fine to deny stuff, but please just communicate. Show us we’re heard. Give transparency. Make us matter. Then maybe things can improve despite how it’s ended up.
I cannot believe we're still having this discussion. When the thread about a proper response to community feedback came out a month back, where transparency and communication were criticized, Matt should have stepped in and had an honest discussion with the community, and addressed the criticisms people have had with him and staff. This goes all the way back to accusations made about how poorly New Source was handled all the way up to how busted the market in game has been and apparently still continues to be, to how poorly rules or conversations are handled on the forums between staff and the community. What did we get? We got a "what do you want us to do next" thread written by the guy who probably has the cleanest reputation with the community. Great first step. Whats changed since then? Absolutely jack diddly dick. We're still having issues with communication from staff to the community. Legit, well thought out feedback threads feel largely ignored or brushed off by certain members of staff. And its this same staff who have been forced to act as the sole collective voice of the servers top admin. Ya'll can say you speak as a player when you chime into feedback threads or other discussions and honestly i hate that you cant speak without being lambasted, but as long as you got that fancy icon next to your name, and the head admin who appears to have fallen off the face of the fricken planet continues to be MIA, you guys are going to get all the heat as you are the ONLY line of communication players have to vent their frustrations to or give feedback to. Something needs to change, like 6 months ago, or its just going to continue to get worse.
Hello, I’ve been lurking on this forum for quite a few years now and have not posted for a very long time now. However I would like to chime in with my 2 cents. I might not be the most well known person here, but I would like to write this from my experiences as someone who’s managed a staff team on a bigger server as well as it’s community members and what I took back from it that I feel could improve the system here. This is solely my opinion as I’d like to give some perspective that perhaps was already considered, so bear with me. So as stated in this thread, I noticed that it’s the issues and concerns that were raised up by the community members. It’s just lacking of the action steps. I’ll try to structure my thoughts best I can, on a holiday now and I’m travelling around. The forum is part of the game. Manage it like it’s the live game. Everything that happens on the forum, directly affects the game play in-game. So I don’t see why it isn’t as consistent as the rules on the live game or rather for the lack of a better word, it’s not strict enough and emphasised on enough, the rules of this forum. Be concerned that players are slowly not wanting to give feedback as @Shiyui as voiced out. They are the ones that make your server tick. (not taking away the work everyone on the staff team as done, I know every well how it feels like as one) As for this one, what I would suggest is to implement a system for feedback, whether it’s accepted or not and with the reasons as to why it’s not being considered or vice versa. Enforce strict objective based rules for them. Not only does this give a platform for players to know what’s in the pipeline but also reduces clutter and gives easy accessibility for staff members to refer to. If there’s already a stand on something, state it in a stickied thread. Things not to suggest. I realised there were multiple suggestions in which there were repeats, the reason for them? There weren’t actual answers to them. I imagine by now there would be a staff thread in which they discuss all of this, make use of it to make a collective decision and then get back to the community about the verdict. It’s important to keep them in the loop, but of course every server has it’s own vision and it’s to your team’s discretion. I understand that it’s the admins who ultimately makes the decision, so the community has to understand that there’s something that’s being done to properly discuss and look at said feedback and then a proper discussion will ensue. If I’m being blunt, there’s a lack of strong leadership to rally the troops. It can’t always be the admins who do that. Get someone to step up and manage the conduct of the other staff members, whoever has exemplary conduct on his/her own. Only then will you have a better team with alignment. I’m not saying you should rule with an iron fist, but more so with a proper system to adhere to. Standards will then be consistent. Naturally, I know that sometimes feedback given is either too aggressive, or has hidden agendas, but as staff members, professionalism is the key to a successful management. Just take two steps back and consider if it’s actual valid feedback and then move from there. That way, you don’t burn out as fast to the “non-appreciation”. Anyway this is just a short suggestion I would like to make. Thanks for reading if you made it to the end. ~Jeremy
Jason brought up a good point just now. I do think it's important to say where staff have gone right. The community feedback poll about what to prioritize next was in the right direction. The person who wrote it though wasn't the person who posted it. So more community engagement between us and staff would be wonderful. Spoiler Also, putting aside my personal feelings and relationship for the guy as best as I can, I strongly feel like it's fair to put a disclaimer that Tim is not subject to the above frustrations players have with staff. He's replied to multiple feedback threads (not all of course) in the past weeks. And those replies are, in my view, are as best as a staff reply as he can given that Matt, the server owner who should ultimately decide those things, is pretty much a ghost. He's addressed and make attempts to defuse the shitstorm threads about Evan. And I really never see him contribute to any toxicity around here and in fact is a person who puts out fires when those around him tend to fan the flames.
For the most part, I support what the Royals staff does and has done. However, unevenness in enforcing the rules is decidedly an issue around here. I understand that there's a certain amount of personal discretion involved in any enforcement position. If you really believe in the logic (or morals) behind your rules, though, enforce them unequivocally, and hold everyone working with you to the same standard. You aren't "forbidding hate speech" with limp wristed, highly selective lip service to the concept. On the plus side, with the most recent batch of interns, Matt has wisely added some diversity of thought and experience to the pool. I have optimism.
how long before people realise that this is just a post written out of frustration at a deleted post, aimed at farming forum likes, and just trying to incite debate among fellow players. You, sir, are not embracing the change you want to see. Instead of dramatizing your thread, make it constructive this is the feedback thread, not general discusson or off topic thread.
