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if he didn't say this I say pay the clean price but since he said it.. split full

 

Read this below

 

you can't really look at that analogy as an example to this specific situation since neither comparisons occurred here. the weapon was not GIVEN nor was it SOLD to X, it was merely passed on to X because he showed initiative to scroll it. You could compare this to if you and your friend have been doing lottery tickets all year round but alternating who buys it and on the day where it was your friend's turn to buy the ticket he won the jackpot.

 

i guess that's where the complication is.

it's the fault of the party for not expressing that it wasn't a gift beforehand. thus, the party shouldn't be able to fully capitalize on the situation. if X knew he wasn't being gifted entire ownership of the spear, would he really have scrolled it knowing he would have to split the final profits? why wouldn't he just buy his own spear and scroll that for himself? thus, i do believe X thought he was receiving a gift

 

This is really more of a discussion thread than a help/advice thread so i moved it. Also, please don't spam the thread if you aren't going to post something helpful..

 

I understand your point of view and I have few questions I'd like to ask you.

Was the faltizan the only weapon that dropped from the ht run? No other weapons with "unknown" trash values dropped? Why did you ask for permission to scroll specifically the spear and not other equips if it was just for fun? I dunno about others but if I acquired an item that I assumed "trash", I wouldn't toss 10m worth scroll into it for "fun" when there is good chance of it turning out to be a trash regardless of the scrolling result. Or I'd toss 10% to save the expense of scrolls.
(Spear att 30% scrolls cost around 10m)

I think there are other cheaper 30% scrolls that cost way less which better suit the purpose of "fun scrolling" unless fun defines something else here like risk (item loss) free yet profitable gambling. I thought you are a mercher as well who'd be well aware of scroll/equip price in general?

Because it would cost extra to buy a separate faltizan item on top of the scrolls. Biggest burden in a usual scrolling situation is the cost of the item not the scrolls. People are more afraid of losing their equips than the expense for scroll purchase. Buying and 30% scrolling one's own item always entail high risk of failing or blowing it up. Whereas using the drop owned by the boss squad would ensure risk-free (for the equip) gamble if the scrolling turned out bad or destroyed the item.

I'd casually think so, yes. It's not a rare sight to find people volunteering to scroll something that dropped at the end of a boss run. It's profitable for both scroller and the remaining squad if things turn out well. Looking at probability alone, the ambitious scroll volunteer can gain extra net income with LESS investment (only scrolls not the weapon itself) and the party will show unforgettable appreciation toward the volunteer. Asking for inclusion of the scroll expense in the splits won't be a challenge at all. Even if scrolling turned out bad, the volunteer only lost equivalent amount of mesos used to buy the scrolls but no loss was made with equip because it was never purchased. Because the probability for net gain can outweigh the loss as a scroller, it won't be strange to witness similar scenarios elsewhere.

 

In this scenario you are not giving or selling a lottery ticket. You worked together to to buy one. In cases where you have lotto pools the winnings are allocated based on how much $ you invested.

In my opinion, at the time of the scrolling the spear was property of all party members even if X wasn't aware of it. The scrolling afterwards doesn't change this fact and any profit should be split. However, X has already said he will only be paying the pre scrolled split and we should all just take this as a lesson to communicate better.

 

Like others have said, in my eyes it’s really just due to a lack of communication amongst the party members.

I can understand Reaped's perspective here, he didn’t think the Faltizan was worth anything at all, so when he asked to scroll it, he just assumed he was being given the Faltizan for his own personal use. In this aspect, I feel like the blame falls on you because when you allow someone to loot or scroll something from a boss, you should clarify whether it’s worth anything to the party or if it's a gift/free. You can’t just assume everyone will know a 111 atk Faltizan is 200m. You also just can't assume that dropping him the weapon to scroll without saying anything implies that he is either 1) responsible for paying for the clean weapon or 2) will owe you all splits from any potential profit from this weapon. Granted, he should've asked as well whether he was getting it for free, but regardless it's a fault on all of you for not communicating better. My issue is that it seems like you guys thought it was worthless clean initially, and now that you've found out it's actually worth something you want in on the profits, no?

As a whole this situation is quite ridiculous really, seeing as the clean Faltizan was worth 200m, and divided by 6 that’s what? 33.3m a player? I think in this case your entire party seems like they could've cared less about the clean Faltizan splits. I say this because you don’t just let a player throw 3x 30%s on an item and expect it to NOT boom most of the time (it’s literally a 2.7% chance for 3x 30s to pass). At the same time though, who knows if Reaped would have agreed to risk 166.6m on scrolling the item himself? That’s the thing. We don’t know because you guys didn’t communicate that with one another and initially you guys thought it was a worthless item. You say that Reaped said "I wouldn't have paid for the clean splits even if it had boomed", but I feel like that's taken a bit out of context here to support your argument. He said this because 1) he thought this item was worthless (and I'd argue that's the party's fault for not noting its value to everyone) and 2) he thought this item was being gifted to him, because there was no clarity around whether it was a gift or not. Additionally, it doesn’t seem unlikely in my mind that if you guys had asked Reaped initially if he would mind taking on the risk of 166.6m, that he wouldn't have agreed to it?

Assuming he was always going to land 3x 30%s on the Faltizan, I see 3 possible outcomes had you guys communicated better:
1) He decides to buy said Faltizan, you guys all get paid 33.3m, he makes 3b+ spear for himself.
2) He decides to not incur the risk of scrolling the Faltizan, you guys sell the weapon clean anyways and receive 33.3m each.
3) He decides that he wants the entire party to incur the risk together, in which case the 3b+ spear should now be split evenly amongst the party members.

Looking at these scenarios, I just feel like it's unfair to assume that splits should be divided equally amongst the party members when there was no agreement made in the first place. His scrolling luck definitely played a huge factor in the final outcome of the spear, and because of this I don't think it's fair to Reaped that you guys will choose the scenario which fits you all best, which is that you all share splits. Had he bought the spear, you guys would've been content getting 33.3m each, and had he not bought the spear you guys would've been content getting 33.3m each selling it clean anyways. But now, seeing that he has succeeded in scrolling it, you guys aren't content getting 33.3m each anymore (and even turned down 1 CS/WS each apparently?? Who're the ones really letting greed cloud their judgement here ) because he turned it into something worth so much more?

Regardless, take my thoughts for what they're worth. Learn from this situation and don't make the same mistakes again in the future.

*Also I just wanna say damn you harsh af calling this a "SCAM" lmao, like honestly you guys are all responsible for this clown fiesta, take responsibility for your shortcomings too

 

As far as I know, he only mentioned a 111 spear dropped, that's all I know, he handled all the loots.
So if there were other weapons that dropped, I wouldn't have known.

You wouldn't, but I would. It's 10m..

I didn't even know the value of the clean spear, nor the value of the finished spear, until I did some research on forum by looking for past offers
made for the spear with similar/exact wa.

I'm not a textbook, I don't know every single weapon's market price, and we're talking about a dragon faltizan, which isn't exactly a 'popular' item
out in the market.

I wouldn't call myself a mercher because I'm where I am here today mainly because I won several events.
Sold the stuffs I've won which bought where I am now. Yes, I do scroll stuffs from point to point.
But they don't always work? You win some, you lose some.
Where's the fun if you gonna calculate every single thing you're gonna scroll?
It wasn't even my intention to try and earn 3b from the dragon faltizan, it just happened, with 3 30% scrolls.

 

Lol ok why the fuck did you disagree to take the WS/CS payment as split?

 

I can't prove anything here because it's my words against your words and your past actions. From here onward, anything I say won't help much but I cannot resist my rising suspicion that you were fully or at least half aware of what was happening with the possible outcome laid out in blueprint. How often do you fun scroll stuff when thinking it's a trash item? Is this a norm for you? For the past 2 years of playing this server and meeting hundreds of dynamic people, I have never met anyone who'd toss in 10m scrolls, even if the person is stinking rich, on a "trash" item for "fun". Those people at least have unexpressed expectation deep down for a profit when performing such unnecessary maneuver on the cover.

 

I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. He obviously asked for the spear since it's common sense that there are certain equips that can be trash but become valuable after you land 30%'s on them like high lvl weapons and relevant class tops, bots and overalls. There's literally no fun in scrolling trash equips that have no value regardless of scrolling result since you have no expectations/investment for the item. Also, you're acting as if he went and scrolled that spear expecting to land 3 30%'s in a row which is ludicrous since as @qookies stated earlier thats only a 2.7% chance. So more likely than not he was only scrolling it for fun and just happened to luck out.

Under the assumption that he didn't know the true value of the clean spear and thought that it was trash, he's actually the one undertaking most of the risk. Honestly, I completely understand his actions as it's just some nice convenient fun to scroll equips that you get from bosses. Am I going to scroll these 103-105 atk nescheres or 101-103 atk nisrocks I get from bosses? Hell yes because it's convenient. Am I actually expecting to profit from this? No, It's just fun even though I'm wasting 8-9m per bow 30% as it adds some excitement to this dull game and if I do land 3 30%'s thats just a cherry on top. All this considered it's neither free nor profitable.

 

lol just move on
Seeing how the vote is pretty even, we can’t come to a conclusion of whether Reaped scammed or not. (I personally think he didn’t scam)
And, it’s not like you guys lost billions of mesos.

 

It's fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and assumptions, whatever I've said is everything there is to it.
I do it pretty often, sometimes several times a day, or once in a while. It's not like I throw 30% on stuffs knowing it will pass/fail, it's not even my decision whether if it's gonna pass or fail.

Well, look at the date I joined, give and take, I've played the server for roughly 5-6 months.
You may have your suspicions, but I'm telling you I don't even have the slightest idea of what was gonna happen if I passed 3 30% on the spear. Who would? Everything is not granted, I only stopped after checking the value of the spear after passing 3 30%, and then thought it's enough, and finished with 100% event scrolls.

 

I agree with sids whatever happens

 

He should pay for the clean weapon. Seemed like you guys REALLY wanted your splits AFTER he landed 3 30%s. That's on him because he claimed the weapon (which he should've paid for) and the scrolling was done by HIM.

 

Hey GrimHero here. I happened to be in this party when so item dropped and at this point with all the drama going down i really do not care about getting anything from reaped but i do want to get my opinion in. Even without knowing the value of the item and so so luck of Reaped has nothing to do with it. All he asked was if he could scroll this item. That said, Item was not given but maybe in the off chance things did go well to make it better for the party so we can all "reap" the benefits. Again what happened happened i'm over it and there were wrong on both sides. Sids giving out items he didn't know the value of = stupid. Reaped not sharing the benefits of so item with party members = No bossing etiquette. Anyways close this shit and get back to maple! Grim out.

 

If someone sells a perfect item and the buyer miraculously lands 7 30% on it, can the seller say "you only landed those scrolls because of my item"? No, it wouldn't fucking make sense. He should pay for the spear when it was dropped (clean) and whatever he decides to do with it, is on him. If he blows up the spear, you guys wouldn't give a shit, but because he landed 3 30%s, you want a bigger slice of the cake. He already offered WS for a payment and you guys are trying to jip him even further. It seems like you guys are the shady scumbags

 

damn guess i owe @GodlyBread splits from the clean bwg he sold me

 

I knew the weapon was worth something and deemed it more useful if it were scrolled to see an end result. With assumptions on both sides here, who do you believe should get the benefit of the doubt, the leader of the party thats hosted numerous runs and has seen situations like this play out or the scroller that feigns ignorance and got lucky?

As I stated before upon giving him the item my intentions were to scroll the item as a party and whatever the end result is it would be for the party. I have done this many times before and I believe it to be was common knowledge. I shouldn't have to baby Reaped considering he is an experienced bosser himself and I'm sure he knows this as well. The luck that he got on the item has nothing to do with mine or the remaining members' decision on splitting the item as from the get-go it was implied that it was still being scrolled for the party. As for turning down the 1 WS/CS offer, read below.

Considering the poll is fairly even in votes on both sides, I wouldn't say I'm being harsh at all. I calling it for what it is and you could consider the weight of it since numerous people have stated their opinion and agreed.

You have to understand that the 1 ws/cs each was his initial offer after he found out the party wanted the item to be split. I declined it because I felt it was unfair to everyone (and still do). Soon after he agreed to give everyone an equal split excluding the prices of the scrolls used to create the item (around 200m). After quickly selling the item, he then changed his conditions and only offered to give us only the clean splits. I'm sure you can understand why we're all pissed.