Concerns on certain drops from CWKPQ (Changes to thread and poll)

I have not done a single CWKPQ in Royals before and just from an observer's view, this is getting ridiculous.

Drops that I have concerns with (and I'm sure many out there feel the same way) are...
1) Blizzard 30
2) Spectrum Goggles
3) Blackfist Cape

1) Blizzard 30
A clear devaluation of Horntail. This book allows for HT parties to cover their potions such as Onyx Apple and Heartstoppers. Adding this drop to CWKPQ makes it harder for HT parties to sell their book and makes HT less rewarding.

2) Spectrum Goggles
It is a good avenue for warriors to obtain a Str Eye equip since Toad bands are just too difficult to get, especially for Drk. However, the problem lies in its godly system. A base stat of 2/2 seems fine since it only has 3 slots. But a godly system in place makes the Dex Racc Mask less valuable.

3) Blackfist Cape
There is nothing unique about this cape. It's a Pink Gaia Cape with a HP aspect that is quite insignificant, therefore it's basically a PGC. It's not the stats of this cape that I'm concerned about, it's the drop rate. It's everywhere.

I do understand that my observations are bias but as a player who goes for HT runs to make a living, why make another money making avenue where nearly unwashed or unfunded chars can easily complete and have earnings similar to HT runs?

Now that my complains are up there, I should also provide suggestions below.

1) Blizzard 30
Just remove it. Obvious reasons.

2) Spectrum Goggles
Remove the godly system. The equip alone is fine. 3 slots? 2/2 stats only? That's balanced. 3 slots? up to 7/7 stats (A.k.a. beating 2 perfect chaos scrolls +5 on a Dex Racc? That's just dumb)

3) Blackfist Cape
Reduce the drop rate significantly. Maintain the value of PGC and the value of Kerning Gachapon in general. Not washed as much as others? Get this harder-to-get cape then since you did not splurge as much mesos as the others to reach end-game content.

I'll also let the polls speak for itself.

P.S. With these new additions, seems like getting rich is becoming too easy. Game is no longer challenging. When you make the game easy, you find it harder to differentiate who is the RWT and who is not.

Update:​

What was once thought as a cape worth getting from gacha has now got down the drain. PGCs are worth slightly more than these capes probably because of it's rarity and low level requirement. But really, what difference does it make in the long run when choosing between blackfist cape and ping gaia cape? This is the same as releasing pgc in cwkpq. Note how there's 4 pages. The first page reflects the more common ones. As time goes by, this cape definitely devalues further if it continues being this common, taking down pgc along with it.

What used to be a single or double paged owl book stabilised at 300-400mil post event period has now gone down to 150mil. Expect it to go down further if nothing is changed.

This equip is the least of my worries because it's the most unique equip released in cwkpq but is still worth noting as one of my concerns. Toad is less rewarding now that all these goggles are ready for us to chaos at our disposal.

Looking at these screenshots, cwkpq is looking to be less rewarding. My view on this topic has changed. It is no longer the comparison between the returns that horntail and cwk give or whatever have you, but how cwkpq is becoming more and more awful. Seems fun to run but you get items that reward you lesser and lesser by the day. So actually, the drops are too good in a way that it's too common. If you are still a firm believer that cwkpq drops are not too good, then you're right, but it still needs to be changed. I believe most of the voters who voted 'No' in the poll are frequent cwkpq runners since, initially from this thread, they rather go against my views on nerfing the drops mentioned and want to maintain the attractiveness of cwkpq. Now just ponder for a bit and look at the situation from the screenshots above. Something needs to be done about the drops for cwkpq. In my honest opinion, all I see in the near future is how people don't feel like doing cwkpq anymore because doing it to get bf cape is obviously not worth at all and doing it for blizzard 30 that's just senseless, of which assumes that the drop remains this way. Doing it for spectrum goggles, taos, demon elixers etc are the only reasons worth doing cwkpq for. One of the posts mentioned above would like to keep cwkpq the way it is since it gives unpopular classes a way to generate some income. With the situation blatantly shown in the screenshots, the income generation point explained above will eventually mean little to nothing at all.

Just like GPQ, this pq could possibly suffer the same fate whereby the only items players are probably eyeing for in the pq are spec goggles, demon elixers and taos (just like ifrit30 and ass30 where you can't get anywhere else). What should carefully be considered is how the pq can maintain it's attractiveness, providing the server with the supplies obtainable from this pq while also making sure that the demand for the items generally exceed the supply entering the market. By doing so, the pq is worth doing due to the items having a higher value because of the demand while the rarity of such items should not deter players from wanting to do the quest. The attractiveness part of the pq need not only be limited to the bonus stage or the MoN, it can come in the form of Exp, other untradeable equips, untradeable potions etc that CANNOT enter the market but are still appealing to players.

For those who have already voted, consider this update I have made and change your votes if you have to. I will also be changing the question in the poll to 'CWKPQ drops need to be changed/adjusted'

 

I Agree, price of PGC will die since the capes comes with high attk clean, and has + HP stats people wil aim for those Blackfist cape instead of PGC

 

This kinda explains to me who has not done CWKPQ yet and seen Blizz drop to less then half of its value since CWKPQ was relased.......

Well apart from that I can only agree to what Venin has said so far.

 

Won't see casual players complaining about that. $$$$$$

 

As a player who’s relying almost solely on selling leech to make money, I’m usually all for things getting cheaper.

However, since running cwkpq personally, I’ve noticed that in my runs, next to NOBODY wants to take MoN and everybody just wants to do bonus stage. I’ve ended up having to take MoNs as a bishop just to get it over with. This phenomenon clearly speaks volumes about the flaws in the reward system that is currently in place in Cwkpq. If left as it is, I foresee the mass resorting to #mulestory, hosting 5 man runs so that everyone will have a chance to bonus stage. It’s really the only way, and its already beginning.

Edit: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/lf-ppl-with-cwk-viable-mules-for-5-man-party.129774/

 

I'm actually a fan of the spectrum goggles drop, but would prefer they would be much more rare. One of my favorite items, so I will admit there is a flair of bias with my response.

I think the blizzard book should be removed, its out of place and doesn't really fit the level ~70-100 drop table.

The blackfist cape should also have a severely nerfed droprate. We can see 4 attack PGC went from ~700M to ~450/500M. This should be a sign

 

i belive things are the way they are right now because the CWKPQ is still new i belive as time goes by the prices of all drops from CWKPQ will drop because the freemarket will be flooded by people who CWKPQ to make money. as for the PGC price drop the person above me mentoined it has been that way ever since the 2X nx event i do not think CWKPQ is the reason for the PGC drop it might influence but even before it came out 4 att PGC was around 500 - 600m.. with that being said decreasing the droprates now will put everyone who CWKPQ'D until now in an unfair advantage.

 

This is why we can't have good things

 

Like you mentioned, it's still new. Madness has to stop now before your definition of 'unfair advantage' goes way out of control

 

For the record everything that was obtainable from 2x NX has seemingly hit its floor. PGC has continued to drop because of the large influx of 4+ Attack capes coming into the market.

 

Forgive me if I’m going off topic.

While I believe that something needs to be done about the bonus stage, I don’t think that nerfing the droprates of these items alone is the way to go. Something else will need to be put back into the equation to maintain player interest. We don’t want another GPQ scenario whereby the devs spent a great amount of time fixing and implementing it, only for nobody besides shads to want to do it for ass30. That will be a shame. Having this amount of players wanting to do this pq is great, it keeps the server active and going at these times where player count is at its low.

Look at it this way,

In order for a fair amount of players equally wanting MoN and bonus stage, either bonus stage drops will have to be severely nerfed, or MoN will need to be buffed.

As it is, I think MoN itself is in a good place right now and do not need a buff. This leaves nerfing the drops in bonus stage, which is why we have this thread today. However, this may affect interest of people wanting to do the pq.

I believe the reason rewards in this pq are so hard to balance is because MoN is an end game item for attackers. However, for many of the less well-funded players, a htp would seem more desireable since dex eqs are expensive and htp gives them much of the secondary stats they need to wield their weapon at a much more affordable cost. Furthermore, once these endgame attackers have obtained their godly MoN, they’d have no need to reloot and will want to do bonus too. What I’m saying is, the appeal of MoN itself already caters to a very tiny portion of the population, while bonus stage has a variety of rewards that caters to everyone. The demand for both types of rewards in itself is unbalanced already.

Hence, a compromise I can think of is to increase the number of boxes in the bonus stage so more people in the party can do it, but nerf the drop rates of certain items. It is after all a pq that requires a minimum of 10 players to run. Whether it become a pq consisting of 5 or 10 unique players, it will depend on what comes next.

 

I believe the drop rates of all the capes and spectrum goggles were nerfed,
Don't you feel it isn't dropping at all nowadays? Its sad

 

An average run including recruitment would take around 40min depending on the dps.
And u may end up having some useless pills.
But i agree to remove blizzard30 from bonus.

 

This is stuff that should have been thought about, discussed and changed/implemented BEFORE CWKPQ was released. This happens with almost every release, they always end up changing rates after the fact when it really needs to be done beforehand.

 

The whole point of feedback and balancing is AFTER an implementation. Discussions prior to implementing something can only predict an approximate outsome, and cannot be perfect.

 

whats the max att of blackfist cape? if 4 is the maximum attack i think its fair and will make the game easier for new players to get somewhat decent gear.

i do understand you have a good point but the damage has been done lowering the droprate now isnt a solution cause there are already way too many out there. if anything because the droprate is already this way what i think is a possible solution is to edit the stats a bit to make it just mid tier and not end game for the items that have big droprate

 

That approach is completely backwards. It should be discussed with the players before the release in an attempt to minimize any changes needing to be made after the fact. The goal should be to have less changes after implementation, and as it stands we're not taking the best approach to make that happen. We're letting the staff set rates, drops and such on their own, and almost every single time it results in a need for changes to be made post-release because there are so few of them and such a lack of diverse thoughts due to that. Should the players have been asked their thoughts on what the staff had planned for the drops/rates, we could have voiced concerns such as these prior to the release - it's not like we didn't have months and months and months beforehand where we all could have been giving constructive thoughts and ideas. While yes, there will still be flaws and changes that need to be made, we should do everything in our power to minimize the need for changes post-release and as it stands we aren't doing that.

For example, the drop rate of BFC should have been set too low if anything, and raised later on should we determine the need, rather than set too high to begin with as it is now. It's better for the server (economically) to have a rate too low to start than it is to have it too high to start. Such a simple concept, but it's too late for that now because we didn't get a say and those who did didn't think things through in that department.

Not trying to insult anybody specific, just pointing out the flaw in the stated approach and explaining why that is the case. Sorry if it comes off the wrong way - it's not personal at all.

 

You note a few changes in the meta that are caused by the drops from cwkpq, however you do not argue why these changes are bad for the game. For example, why should raccoon mask be better than Spectrum Goggles, why should blackfist cape be rarer than pgc?

As for your solutions; it goes without saying that it's too late to remove the godly system from spectrum glasses. That would give a huge advantage to people who currently have godly spectrum glasses. Unless you meant to also remove it from existing glasses, but I don't think I even need to point out the flaws in that.

This is impossible; if everyone is rich, no one is.

 

The point I'm trying to make here is that cwk is probably on par with horntail in terms of revenue. To be frank, I do not have the numbers...however, the apparent imbalance is the fact that a new player vs a long term player have equal earnings and/or rights to the drops. This is dangerous to me because I can be so shit and earn as easy as someone who plays the game far longer. Comparisons with pgc and racc are mere examples to show why they're too good inclusive of their drop rates.

I'd also like to add that of course I don't want to make cwkpq obselete. But at the current state, cwkpq is too rewarding. I don't care if you say that some runs you get nothing from cwkpq because hey, I spent 3 apples and get nothing from horntail too.

By the way, the concerns I have above are not only mine, I've literally asked in-game and mention here on their behalf. They are the ones who have done cwkpq and they believe it's making horntail look like #2 when it's the most challenging boss in the game.

Sure my suggestions are not perfect, suggestions is open to the floor. I hope players who posted or will be posting on this thread know that you may sound like making an intelligent argument but the fact is you're just countering what I've said with zero input. Explain to me why I'm wrong, don't just state that I'm wrong.

I would also like to reason why I've added the 3rd option 'Neutral' in the polls. There are some players who aren't concerned at all. Having this Neutral option allows us to see how many players, as straight forward and aggressive it might sound, give a damn and how many do not.

At the time of this post,
34(yes and no) have an opinion
19 are neutral
That already shows majority have a stance on this issue.
Of this 34, 24 said yes. If the 'yes' count is lesser than 'neutral' count, then all the more this thread is not worth fighting for.
The fact that 24>19 although not by a big margin (remember that we only have 600+ active players and not everyone uses the forum) is alarming.

Please add more suggestions or counter with purpose.

Btw mate, being rich and getting rich are 2 completely different things. When you make the 'getting rich' part easy, you make the 'being rich' (legitimately) part awfully hard to distinguish. We already have leech and horntail as part of reasons for RWTers to defend themselves. Don't make cwkpq another one of these reasons.

It will be good to find ways on how to make cwkpq rewarding based on its difficulty. Quantifying this difficulty is challenging, but as more suggestions and rebuts are posted here, it may be clearer.

Rant over...for now.

 

I never even said you were wrong. I don't have an opinion on this issue yet. All I stated is that you don't give proper reasoning as for why the effects of CWKPQ are bad for the game. Because of this, I am not convinced either way yet. If you can gather some data on how much you earn from an average CWKPQ and how you earn from an average horntail run, and it shows that it's easier to make money in CWKPQ than horntail, then we can start talking about rebalancing drop(rate)s.