I understand pet looting was changed to reduce summon farming at voodoos--however, it has created an inconvenience to legit grinding and active farming Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, I sort of feel like I'm in the minority that uses my summon while training, grinding, or actively farming I'm a 168 BM and my phoenix regularly helps finish off enemies, retain/capture aggro from mobs behind me, and slightly boost my mobbing (maybe no one plays the game like this anymore? ) My issue is just how inconsistent the need is for using the pickup button, so now I rarely use the skill that I dumped 30 points into--for example: phoenix will clear out a wave and my pet will only pick up half the items. I know it sounds lazy, but that is the exact reason I bought 3 pets and put pouches on them--a legit and active way to keep grinding yet now I'm punished for it. Is there a better way to handle afk heartstopper farming--1 single item from 1 single map? So far the change has made summons largely useless EXCEPT for heartstopper farming
Just remove pet on those maps. The current snowman fight map remove all the pets upon entering so this should be possible.
There are many maps which can easily be exploited by summon farming, a few examples would be lepre, mithril, zombie, clowns, iron etc. To remove pet on all exploitable maps and multiple items ignore will not be feasible.
this defeatist "farmers gonna farm" attitude hurts legit players and again makes my 30 points into phoenix worthless idk I think my point still stands that so far the change has made summons largely useless EXCEPT for afk farming--the exact thing it's aimed to combat
I think you may be exaggerating on the hurting legit players and summons being worthless part. First, I dont think adding points to your summons to increase your dps is considered useless. Second, considering the majority of your mob kills will be by your main attacking skills, i dont see how players are inconvenienced by the occasional kills by your summons. Third, sure, you may lose out on a little efficiency during grinding, but it is insignificant. You will probably just lose out on a few bags of mesos and items every now and then, but manually looting those will not hurt legit players at all. I am quite familiar with the grinding scene, and you will be repeating your rotations along the same route, so any kills by your summons will be left on the floor, hold z when you pass by every 3 mins and all is good.
Not feasible, so it is possible? Are you guys saying that you guys are just lazy and decided to flip the switch to turn off pet loot from the summons' kill completely cause it's easier to do that? I think it is best if you guys can just move the exploitable drops around, best to higher level mobs where summons cannot kill it in a timely way, cause afk summon is still a thing even now, just more troublesome. It has an effect for sure but it doesn't solve the problem completely. Honestly speaking though, if "opening up a second, third, up to infinity amount of clients to afk and let summon to kill things and get rich for little to no effort" is your main goal, just disable / limit the multi-client down to 2~3, better to disable it. All of us know that we will just find other ways to overcome it / make macros to this half-ass solution. And this actually shows a scene of actual party play anyway instead of MuleStory.
just hold z lol if it's not that big of a deal to you, we can just punish all players equally by removing pet loot, instead of targeting archers and mages edit: I'm joking but pls I'm still really wondering if there are better solutions
I have to disagree as you have not completely thought out the execution of your suggestions, and i certainly do not appreciate the strawman argument that you just made in your first paragraph, that is not what i said so stop putting words in my mouth, but you are free to express your opinion. However, i do not intend to respond to you any further on the subject matter as it'll be completely pointless engaging in a discussion with your way of reasoning. On a more serious and important note, i must warn you that a macro is against the rules of this game. You are more than welcome to suggest better ideas to us here
Well, unless I'm misunderstanding the definition of "feasible" to be "possible and practical to do easily or conveniently", then I don't see how is my question (let alone argument) a strawman argument. Perhaps you should use another word? I thought that someone as a GM should have some responsibility in their wording and be strict with it as well when they also apply strict rule to the player...but I guess this has nothing to do with the thread. I'm pretty sure the point of a thread in Feedback section is to discuss about the possible implementation that could do good for the server...Instead of this passive-aggressive attitude, perhaps you could just ask for the pros and cons of my suggestion and point out the flaws of my suggestion instead of this vague "I'll just say this suggestion of yours is not thought out" without telling me how is that not thought out. Again, no objective reason as to why are you stopping to listen in a Feedback thread. If something is wrong with my way of reasoning, say what is wrong with it but don't play the card "it's pointless cause of your way of reasoning" without telling me what the hell is wrong with it. If you are triggered because I "play" the word around "feasible" and perhaps asked a sarcastic or passive-aggressive question when I did not intend the question to be that, then I apologise. I meant, I don't know the discussion the GMs and the developers made before coming to this decision and that is why I asked and I could only try to interpret replies as literal as possible if there is little to no transparency for this. All we get is a short one-liner "NOTE: This change has been made to reduce the effectiveness of summon botting." without any further explanation. Yes. But I'm just saying that macro is another possible exploit that players may use to overcome this implementation of yours, in which macro-ing is, to my knowledge, difficult to catch when the rule is giving a huge leeway to the afk summon characters where they are allowed to respond during their refresh of summon. Anyway, I suppose I should create a new thread to suggest an implementation to disable or limit multi-client on another thread.
Yes, that thread exists but that thread is more about the unhappy players about the sudden change of implementing this "pet won't loot from summon farming" situation, how the HS price is "screwed up" and how players are unhappy that it is not discussed before the implementation. And yes I do understand that this implementation is a mean to counter summon botting and perhaps improve the health of economy by not introducing so many mesos with little to no effort. But this does nothing more than just adding a small bump to slow down the vehicle instead of building up a blockage to block them. You guys even admit it shouldn't be a huge problem since we can still manually loot them, just more troublesome to do so. It certainly reduces the abuse of this system but it does not prevent it. This thread however is focused more on other alternatives that could be provided to not punish the legit players that actually play and utilise their summon as well. Just because you guys are trying to put some bump to slow down the summon farming scene the legit players shouldn't be affected negatively from it. Right now this implementation is more of a double-edged sword that hurt both sides. And that is why we tried to suggest on whether if we can remove pets on those maps, add certain exploitable items into the ignore list that a pet can loot, move the drop list around or disable / limit the multi-clienting as a better mean while having in mind that you guys are trying to battle off this abuse of system. When you answered that removal of pets and adding items into ignore list are "not feasible", that is why I asked that question because it sounds like GMs and developer had considered about these and decided that it is not feasible so they resorted to a faster option. I hope you understand that we (or at least me) are trying to give constructive feedback and we could've gave a "straightforward" suggestion without much explanation on how it works when we first post it. Please don't simply brush it off by giving a negative cognition just because we forgot / failed to explain our suggestion at the time of our posting. This is Feedback section!
Yeah it's kind of awkward starting a feedback thread and the GM responds with, "nah you're not inconvenienced, you should play like this, next" My first suggestion was to just add hearstoppers to the pet ignore list Prices for the other etc items listed earlier have been unchanged since the update, signalling to me that the pet loot update literally only affected one item from one map--hearstoppers Therefore this change would have the same exact effect on stopper farming/botting without inconveniencing other players The other maps/items offer significantly lower margins and some even take more work to farm. That's why I think the pet loot change did literally nothing to other farmables With this wait and see experiment approach to the update, I think it's better to change how a single item behaves instead of broadly nerfing an entire skill across 2 classes
Again, that is not what i said or meant. Please stop twisting my words. I have already explained that there are too many potential farmables to be added into the ignore list, and we have to also consider items farmed using main skills, if we add these items to the ignore list, we are disabling item loot by pet for mobs killed by normal skills as well. If a cleric decides to farm stoppers, gold tooth, mithril ore using heal for example, his pet loot would not work. Do you understand why this might not be a good solution? Also, we should note that prices for all the items listed in my example has increase by at least 50% (as a matter of fact, mithril ores and eofs have increased by almost 100%), i have observed a significant decrease in botting activity across 5 potential maps, and legit farmers has been able to gain a higher margin on these items which i think is a good thing, rewarding them for their effort. Thank you for your suggestion, but remember to always consider the pros and cons as well. For example, a feedback on disabling pet loot for summon kills in specific maps for specific items is a good idea. And a follow up question to the staff is can this be implemented by the dev? As well as how do we determine which maps and which items? Isn't that a better way of discussing something.
As much as I find the change a sudden inconvenience (not saying I do not entirely hate it) and needs time getting used to, this is true. I cannot fully attest that stoppers are providing me with higher margins because my sales are pretty small, as people buy them in sets of 5 to 50 at a time, never 200 or 300 like it was before but it still sells anyway (probably due to the fact that I can't consistently reset my shop in the henesys FM rooms). The one crucial and noticeable change I experience as a farmer is that no one and I mean no one comes to my map and takes it away using the mapowner command. It's been peaceful. I've even started my 7th farmer just because I find it more rewarding than leeching.
Just press Z though right? At least it's contained to a tiny map for one item rather than again, affecting an entire skill across 2 classes everywhere all the time edit: your 100% increase in price on eof is completely false mithril is the same price as before the update gold teeth: unchanged let's stop pretending that the update didn't ONLY affect heartstoppers let me suggest again, if "just press z" is your suggestion for all archers/mages training with summons--let's just add heartstoppers to pet ignore, thereby limiting the effects to one single map
is it possible to just make it such that if the player didnt hit the mob at all and it was the summon which dealt 100% of the damage to the mob then the pet loot wont work? or is this some client restriction thing? cos it sure would solve this "i hit the mob then my birdie hit it for that last 1 damage but my pet cant loot cos of this shitty change"
But summon botters don’t just sit at voodoos o.o you’d be entirely targeting farmers setting hs on pet ignore
If the main issue is stopper farming why not just make stoppers untradeable? Benefits BM/MM who can still summon farm them since they don’t reap the benefits of alchemist. Benefits APQ activity too and the Apple market will surge in price/demand (a good thing for lengthening the end game) because of it.
If you're actually grinding your pet shouldn't be doing most of the kills- and maybe it's just me, but if manually picking up every so often is such a crippling issue I think there's deeper seeded issues than not being able to summon farm. I haven't noticed it at all on any of my characters who have summons- granted I never summoned farmed so I can't compare but regular grinding is as it always was.
