Buccaneer Class Feedback

Discussion in 'Closed' started by Luna, Oct 5, 2018.

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  1. TayK
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    ez agree
     
  2. Vinilos
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    this forces u to use Upercut/Elbow just to crit once, pressing more buttons makes it's funny but the delay between attacks might not be more effective than spamming barrage/dragon, and Elbow might misposition u.
    if they add stun on Dragon Strike like some fella said the it's gonna be an improve cuz you're spamming barrage/dragon on bosses so Dragon will be debuffin the boss
     
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  3. Ditz
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    Lol I thought pressing more buttons and incorporating more skills in bossing combos would make it more fun cos we're encouraged to fully utilise bucc's kit. And the number of keystrokes is something that makes the job special. I was thinking that elbow/uppercut doesn't just give you enough time to crit once, but instead something like a 10 second crit debuff on mobs so you won't have to keep spamming it. Regarding positioning, I don't think it's that much of a huge deal since buccs should already be familiar with constant repositioning due to barrage. Then again, there's also uppercut blow

    Adding stun to dragon strike.... well I guess...
    But I feel like in order to cast a debuff, a player should be forced to use a skill outside of a normal skill combo so that stunning actually feels more fulfilling and rewarding. Adding stun to dragon strike such that crit chance will proc 100% of the time is basically adding passive crit chance to bucc, which can already be achieved by changing stun mastery. So I don't think it's a good idea to modify dragon strike in such a way
     
  4. Vinilos
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    the smashing buttons part is great :D core to Bucc's identity, maybe buffing the stun time will help, cuz 1-2 seconds stun duration is very discouraging to even deal more damage and really give use to Stun Mastery.

    I use uppercut/elbow/corskcrew cuz theyre fun/useful and giving there more utility or damage is a good idea (like hitting more mobs with elbow/corskrew or extended stun duration)
     
  5. VelockX
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    Regarding stuns, i do believe we need more stuns on other attacks. Currently we only have double uppercut and backspin blow. Although bsb is a great skill, the displacement can lead to death for things like immovable bosses (moving yourself into their hitbox) and double upper is a skill thats easily outclassed by barrage and demolition.

    Personally i think it would be cool to have a % chance to stun using all of our skills as a part of stun mastery. My idea would be that each skill (not line) would have a low % chance to stun (i would say around 5-10%, but these are just ideas). This way we could use stun mastery more often outside of bosses.

    Regarding boss stuns, i don't think bosses should be stunned. Instead we could apply a debuff that counts a boss as "stunned" but not actually affecting the boss, gaining out stun mastery's extra damage. (If we REALLY wanted to stun bosses, an idea would be to stack these "stunned debuffs" to lets say 10 which would actually stun a boss for x seconds)
     
  6. NTR
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    As I was contemplating bringing my SI mule to certain bosses with my NL/BM friends it made me realized how SI is not really needed in boss runs, you don't see people R> SI but rather R> SE for the most parts, and that's due to the NLstory meta (because good mobility good avoid-ability insane dps easier hp wash than archers relatively cheap red cravens AND alchemist for cost saving is not broken) and the scarcity of MM over BM. Even with SI, MM loses to BM and so do other classes lose to NL (other than corsair with extreme control) so it's kinda obvious why royals is littered with NL and BM>MM.

    If other classes that can actually benefit from SI are buffed more such that they can deal similar or close enough damage to the meta classes then it will naturally make buccaneers more popular, in my opinion (not sure if there's such a plan already). Maybe warriors not by a huge extent since they are "multi-target" but I feel strongly that MM should at least be >= to BM with SI, if not there are no clear advantages playing them, and that might be why most of the time we only see BM around. Or perhaps raise the attack speed number of NLs by 1 so they can only achieve optimal DPS with SI (if a nerf is deemed necessary, as i'm not too fond of nerfs too).

    All this along with an appropriate boost to the main attacking skills of bucc, aka Barrage, Dragon Strike and Demolition might make this class a whole lot appealing!

    Don't have numbers, never played a bucc properly, just wanted to give my opinion on how to make buccs more appealing to boss runs.
     
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  7. Ohad
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    This thread isn’t about how to make buccs a support role and not about buffing mm or nerfing nl. This thread is about making buccs stop being an si mule or a tl mule and start being an actual attacker that can do good dmg.
     
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  8. NTR
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    I agree with that, which is why a significant boost to their main skills is necessary. As long as buccs have SI, the justification will be that because buccs have a party skill SI, their DPS shouldn't reach on the levels of other attackers like Hero (no useful buffs). However the reality is that no one really needs SI in the current bossing meta. When was the last time you saw R> SI to Zak/HT/Krex? Most likely not, but SE? Everyday tons of smegas for SE, because it is simply much better. Even if buccs were buffed slightly, that's not a good enough reason for the current meta to pick buccs over NLs or BMs because SI isn't very useful to them. By buffing SI (or buffing classes that use SI), it will be killing two birds with one stone.

    Indeed this thread isn't about NLs or MMs but they are very related. And I just wanted to throw out this idea that SI can be made more appealing, alongside with boost to buccs dps that one day, Buccs can actually join as an attacker and we will see R> SE and SI.
     
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  9. VelockX
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    Even though SI is core concept of buccs, i don't think it should be the focus of other classes. You don't see people going around recruiting hb much, but instead its more of a bonus when recruiting an attacker. I think we should focus on buffing buccaneers' main dps moves, such as barrage, demolition and dragon strike rather than SI and its effect on other classes.

    I heard that before SI affected mages, and i don't see why that was changed. True it made their map aoe attacks faster, but i don't think it's broken. As of now, there are only a few classes which benefit from SI (corsairs, all warriors, and marksman i believe).
     
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  10. Ayane
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    SI really isn't that good. The only classes who really benefit from it significantly are MMs, Drks (with MMs being really rare) and Claymore heroes/BW paladins (with most heroes using stonetooth anyway)
    For weapons that are fast 5 (like stonetooth, guns etc) SI gives less than 10% more dps and isn't really worth the trouble to bring.
    Honestly even as a DRK it would be a lot better to duo bosses with a BM than with a bucc since BMs are simply a lot stronger, and SE doesn't fall that much behind SI for them anyway.
    In HT it's actually the Time Leap which is the good party skill, not SI.
    Time Leap is actually pretty useful in HT, it can sometimes save your whole run by having an extra res, and the unlimited echo is great too.
    However the skill is highly situational, and in the case where nobody dies and there are no level 200 people it's useless.

    Like I wrote before, SI isn't even better than HB. HB benefits pretty much everyone (unless they got 30k hp) and is pretty much a must for unwashed people while SI is just a small dps boost for some classes.
     
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  11. NTR
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    I think we can all agree that SI is unintentionally pretty underwhelming, but despite that it is still a party buff that helps boost the dps of other classes.

    If buccs were to be buffed such that their dps is higher than classes with no useful party skills (Take Hero for prime example), then it would be unfair for classes like Heroes this time. If buccs get a dps boost that is lackluster because of their utility, then nothing will have changed as boss recruitments will simply go on as usual with NLs and BMs for SE dominating the scene. SI ironically works against bucc’s favor.

    If effectiveness of SI can be improved somehow, I feel that it would benefit the game as a whole, bringing more variety to boss runs and make Buccs a more welcome addition too!
     
  12. Ayane
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    How do you suggest to buff SI? If you make the buff bypass the attack speed limits and work with every class, wouldn't it make classes like NLs even more broken?
    Sure it will make buccs a lot more popular in parties , but you will still barely contribute in terms of damage and even fall further behind due to other classes becoming stronger.
    Besides, you could easily get replaced by an SI mule so while buccs will be popular in early bossing (like full party zakum runs), in end game scenarios like duo zak/krex, horntail etc people will have mules and won't bother to bring you.

    Also, why would it be unfair to heroes if buccs became a bit stronger than them in 1vs1? Heroes would still greatly outdamage buccs in multi target scenarios (like horntail, zak arms, shaolin). They will also have a lot of other advantages like a lot higher HP, a constant reliable stance, power guard, achilles, superior grinding, longer range and so on.
    In my opinion just the high HP and power guard alone are already a lot better than SI.
     
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  13. NTR
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    Good points on the pros of Heroes, I’m not sure what else can be done to buff SI, perhaps the Attack cap you have mentioned, but limited to certain classes. Or increasing the Attack speed number of NLs by 1 so they can only achieve best dps with SI. Or tweaking how fast each Attack speed attacks (not sure if possible or too radical). And perhaps many more possible ideas if not already discussed.

    My intention is not to make buccs an even better SI mule but rather make them somewhat like a BM/MM with their irreplaceable SE buff. We still see ppl actually recruiting them instead of opting to go with just mules perhaps because they are decently strong in their own right, so if buccs could reach respectable levels of dps while having a strong buff that could serve as a bridge for ppl to pick other classes over NL all the time, that would also be great.

    But if that seems quite unfeasible then just the boost to the damages, though I’m quite sceptical if it will be appealing enough to consider picking bucc over the current meta classes
     
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  14. VelockX
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    This actually made me think: What if SI DID bypass attack speed limit, BUT only for the caster/ buccaneer class? So other classes would benefit from it, but it would boost out dps the most? The buff could also double for buccs?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  15. Ayane
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    It's possible but by itself the buff is way too small to make bucc any good.
    1 more speed will give you maybe 5-10% more dps at best, and you need to buff the bucc dps by at least 40% to make it compete with archers and warriors.
     
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  16. VelockX
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    I know that SI doesn't help our dps much, it was just a thought of buffing it. As most of my previous posts have said, our main skills need to be buffed to make us viable.
     
  17. Buccaneer
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    I swear this conversation is backtracking ~f18

    Just give buccaneers flat damage boost on certain bossing skills. Everyone wants SE and dps only anyways unfortunately.
     
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  18. IamMia
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    Hi, i am Mia and i play a Buccaneer ~f11

    I would not change any cooldowns, i think the playstyle is nice actually.

    Welp the damage is not at the best and should be a little bit reworked.
    I am thinking of a % buff on demolution alternativ should transformation (both) add flat weapon attack(i prefer this!)
    I am looking for ~30 attack with normal transformation and ~60 attack with supertransformation.
    So that we have a bigger damagedifference with demolution and by using barrage in normal transformation. The cooldowns would feel more usefull ~f11
    (Normal transformation has a usage in endgame, coooool!)

    #damageproblem solved

    What are the remaining cons on a bucc?

    Just... Mobility

    I am thinking of a rework on transformation mobiliybuff that is allready implemented.
    We can get hastemobility by using transformations? So mount is even faster.

    Transformation should instant get
    +170% speed and +150% jump
    And super transformation
    +200% speed and 170% jump~f17


    Pls think about that Tim.

    I think its not broke and every bucc feels better at leveling, bossing and questing.
    Ps: and afking with that mobilityboost.

    Pls buccs like this post if you feel good with my two ideas ~f15~f15~f15

    Greetings Mia a Buccaneer <3
     
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