Problems that players faced in MapleRoyals

The point is that you can do them without washing. The only argument would be if you could not do them with HB, which is only a very select minority of them and often bosses designed for ranged characters as I have already explained. If you can do them with HB and no washing that would mean it can be done without washing.

 

Bigfoot is doable with any attacking class. There are ways to pin it without taking touch damage.

Also by no means is bishop mandatory for making money. There are MANY more ways of earning mesos (APQ to name one) that even compete with that of leeching/afk farming.

I started last year as an unwashed NL. Up to when I was able to fund and wash a new one I enjoyed the heck out of the content. All the fun and nostalgia I had pqing (even lpqed until 70 because it was so much fun) are memories that I don't regret being unwashed for. Doing quests, meeting friends, grinding mobs were all reasons I would say my first NL wasn't a wasted character. I would still use him to run some daily content. Not retired!

If you are in a hurry to enjoy the end-game content because you believe that's all you will enjoy, then obviously you will have a linear playstyle. It is definitely a big stretch for the squishy classes to get to end-game with hp washing being a pain, but that doesn't mean you can't still enjoy yourself along the way.

 

In the official Maplestory, many bosses were meant to be only available for servel certain classes.
Toad was only intended to be a boss for warriors, while Bodyguard A was impossible for warriors unless nearly level 200 with HB.

Nearly ridiculous difficulty was how the nostalgic way this game was, some classes just were incapble of some bosses, thats why there were all kinds of classes poeple playing in old school Maple, instead of spamming one key forever when letting pets auto potion themselves.

 

As somebody who is a legitimate newcomer (to maplestory in general I seen a friend play it back when I was maybe around 11-12 and this server is my first real experience with the game) I will say that HP washing is the number one reason I can't get into it. I'll lay out basically how I feel about it and to those of you who have gone through the process I'm not trying to take your work from you, I'm just saying how it is for somebody on the outside.

1. Time

You are spending a lot of time for an account that will just end up being inferior to others. This even applies to people the same class as you it makes your work feel like it was for nothing when you know by the end of it you will have nothing to show for it. It makes it not fun to do the grind because it will end up just being a wasted effort. That's a lot of hours to grind for no payout at the end of it and that's not fun you're supposed to feel rewarded, but you won't be.

2. How you're seen

It's not about whether it's "needed" for bossing or not I actually have no knowledge of the bosses and the mechanics, but what I do care about is how I will be seen at the end of the grind. You will be compared to those who have HP washed and you will be replaced by somebody who did HP wash 100% of the time. Nobody is going to give themselves less chance at success for no reason when they don't have to.

3. Skipping content

HP washing basically forces you to skip all midgame content. I want to just log on and grind and do the quests and all that, but the HP washing mechanic requires that I leech and ignore it. To me that's the worst aspect of it because I like the leveling aspect and the feeling of getting stronger especially since most mmos level scale now (can't stand it), but I don't get to see it very much because I won't be engaging in it if I'm HP washing. To me the endgame isn't even something I've considered I care more about the content that I will spend most of my time doing.

4. Having to start on a class you don't care about

Pretty sure you know where I'm going with this the large amount of bishops going around because that's one of the recommended classes to start with for money. So now you're starting and already you don't feel satisfied when playing because you're doing so on what is essentially a throwaway account that you don't care about and only made so you can fund the class you do want to play (paladin for me to respect my first dnd character). You get screwed no matter what you do because it's either pick the class you want to play or pick one for money so you can fund the class you want to play just so you can be equal to everybody else.


I'm not sure if this is an issue that can really be fixed at this point because other people have done the work and it wouldn't be fair to them. The only real thing I can do is offer input about what it's like and possibly offer suggestions. Just off the top of my head I would suggest having an option to make a character that would have the benefits of somebody who has HP washed as they level, but it would come with a massive xp penalty so that they are forced to make the same sort of time commitment as those who did HP wash so that their work isn't devalued. Pretty much all I got and feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt since I'm not well informed on maplestory and how it all works, but at least try to understand how it is like from our perspective.

 

Figure i'll chip into the other points as well about what players say so that I'm not making it entirely about HP washing.

Leeching: This one isn't as big of a deal to me because first off it costs money which takes time to get that you could spend leveling in other ways and is also not fun. I'd rather have fun playing the content than just sitting around even if it takes longer to get levels.

Hacking: This is seen in every game it's not like the people running it want it to be there.

Nostalgia: No comment as I don't have the nostalgia factor going for me.

 

@JacobSCA

It seems like you were talking to someone and their messages were deleted. I don’t really have anything to respond other than the first message cause I can’t see your discussion.

I didn’t make a mage until I was 4months into the game. I had fun playing my hero and leveling it to 158 and funding it while farming random stuff on my hero. I mean I started pumping some APRs starting at around 107? I didn’t have a zhelm till 100. So I didn’t has much int from my equips, if any at all.

If you want to play competively to potentially hit stronger attacker parties by all means. Make a mage. I know @WolfXLord doesn’t have a mage and he’s been playing for over a year.

Would you mind sharing what level the first bucc got too and how much HP it had at that level?

I still think you can play how you want. If you don’t want to play a mage and just fund yourself off of Zak/Event bosses rewards (slime,cake,snowman), CWKPQ, that is a good amount of the game that does that. I literally just had fun farming ToT for 2 months straight with my 1b 125 ST. I thought I was hella strong and was having a blast with my 14 dex shoes, 6atk slot cape, and 10 attack wgs.

 

you should try doing apq to fund urself. its simple to do and if you know how to lead, u can use lvl 40 mules to do it as well. also u dun hv to be smashing ur mage ulti for an hour n can potentially earn more than what 1 hr of leeching gives u

 

Level 135 with 6,830 hp

The mage part was an exaggeration, and could be better said as "Spend your time on your first character making enough money so that your second character is good enough for end game content". A mage just happens to be the best class geared towards doing that due to leeching your own character & the easy access to money it can generate. In addition, it's something that requires no funding to do well, and never truly becomes obsolete, so it's what I went with.

I think you can agree that most people in this server play with the intention to get far into the game and have a chance at all of the content, probably around 95% of the playerbase. To do that, you need to either be a warrior/bucc or HP wash, there isn't really any other choice. Trying to have every party you join have HB is unrealistic & you will be passed over on parties if you can't take a hit.

Your experience, because you picked a warrior as your first class, did not require you to wash at all, or nearly as much as someone who starts as say, a bowman, or a thief. Classes like those come close to actually dying in a single hit at some mobs in ToT, a level 125 bowmaster has around 3.7k hp clean. You can definitely play whatever way you want if you're a warrior, and to an extent bucc since they naturally get the HP be barely on par with the end game content, but that still leaves half of the classes in the game completely unable to do some of the content.

My entire point is that when it comes to squishy classes(who also have mediocre + on hp washing per, so it requires a lot of mesos to hp wash them), you can't start off as them and expect to do end game content. You can get them all the way to 200, but unless you have someone able to give you HB at every boss run you need it, you can't really do a decent bit of the content. If the way you want to play the game is to not HP wash as a Bowmaster, but still participate in horntail, aside from HB, you really can't.

 

I agree here. Just the huge problem is that there's no easy fix to combat hp washing without stepping on the toes of people who HAVE invested the mesos/nx for washing already. Also if everyone can freely do all content without washing as is, then I believe a lot of DK mains would be upset as well. Many DKs enjoy the utility that they have over other warriors (it's their leverage for being slightly weaker), so making HB unnecessary for all content would be feelsbad.

For these reasons, I'm for a solution where squishy classes can handle the REALLY hard hitting bosses whose damage can't be avoided (thinking Wulin Yaoseng, Castellan Toad, Pink Bean?) that require 12k+ hp to survive. HT from what I recall is doable unwashed with HB and with some HP from other sources, which I think is fair.

One of the best solutions I heard about was the idea of a temp hp potion. Very sorry to whoever came up with it but I would definitely credit them here. The idea was straight forward: a potion that granted temporary hp to the user. The amount of hp (or % hp) would be up for debate, but I think if implemented, it should allow squishies to atleast tackle anything WITH HB. Obvious careful consideration would need to be taken while implementing this to prevent abuse. Maybe having it untradeable and as a quest/pq reward could be an idea?

But going on with what MrKaren said, alot of the content is what it is. Can't really argue with it if that's what was originally intended to be...

 

1. I doubt the GMs will ever elliminate HP washing. It's one way to catch RWTers or vote abusers. A hell of a plus point for it to remain here for a long time.

2. HP washing is another form of character improvement, just like upgrading your equips, but it's permanent. So considerable amount of thought and calculation needs to be done in order to invest in something irreversible. HP washing is not a brain dead mechanic.

3. I remembered back in MapleSEA days people were dying left and right in Horntail. This is still a very clear memory as I mained a bishop timing my ressurects and coordinating with buccs. To comfortably go for end game bosses, players were spending a ton of cash on the game. Now that this server offers the same game content with a cashless avenue to enjoy the end game we still have people QQing.

How like that?

 

It's quite late to remove HP washing since many have already done it. And yes, it's one way of NX sinking!
For what's worth, at least you get to HP wash for free here (just that it takes time) and not having to buy NX or @-Cash

 

I'm currently 171 only playing my NL, and it can be incredibly frustrating at times. You have to find a way to fund one, and your choices are either be great at buying low and selling high, selling apples, getting lucky at gacha/apr, training for extremely low % and hoping you find good drops (i.e. good RC), or selling leech. I don't see many other options. Leech is by FAR the most efficient method, plus you have an HS mule. However, its also incredibly boring, and I can't justify spending 3 hours of my life telecasting at ulu2 just to make a like 250m (no offense Venin ). The other issue is that at this point, a lot of players expect you have some kind of mule at higher levels. I've been rejected from numerous Zak/HT/CWK/Krex/whatever parties because I don't have a mule and only have an NL. I've been very fortunate to make a few random bcoins just passively playing and also having a great guild/alliance in the form of Kinks and now Fleur. They've really helped me out, even if it means them sacrificing an extra 10-15 minutes to bring me on my first HT run recently.

Also, because of HP washing and leeching, it makes taking attackers for things like HT/Zak/Krex etc highly exclusive to people who specifically spend well over 20b to just make a character with high HP and really good equips. At ~5k range, its so hard to find anyone who takes me seriously when I say I'm going HT. Out of the dozens of times I've PMed people recruiting HT and they find out my range, I literally have not had a response from someone. Period. If you don't have 6k+ range, nobody wants you, and bossing becomes that much harder.

The problem I see is this: HP washing cant be removed. Its too ingrained into the system, people have spent hundreds of hours of their life making money in order to HP wash, and removing it wouldn't be fair to those people.

HOWEVER, the removal of HP washing would literally be the cure-all for the 'NL problem' this server thinks it has. NLs were designed for stupid high damage with low HP so they would be hyper reliant on HB for bosses. I'm not sure how the original GMS planned for them to do things like PB considering max HP was <10k if I recall correctly, but you could do HT at higher levels without having to HP wash. Removing it would highly disincentive making an NL considering theres really nowhere to train other than krex, and even regular training would risk dying at places like ToT. I would support removing HP washing still even though I've spent probably ~5b that could have gone into other things just for equips to passively HP wash.

Sure you don't need to HP wash, but without places to train or without being able to obtain a ZHelm for a while, HP washing is kind of mandatory. Hell, you could theoretically make an argument for training at HHG1 until you're 200, but nobodys going to do that. Its possible, sure, but its a terrible idea. Even with the 1.5x event drop grinding at ToT for neutral masks, the EXP I was getting was not even close to what I would be making at krex. I will never be able to Toad, I will never be able to Pink Bean, I need HB for Shao, and I struggle to find HT parties.

ANYWAY, thats my feelings on HP washing. Its something broken that shouldn't have been in the game and would more than likely solve the NL problem overnight.

2) Don't remove leeching. In reality, this means hurting party EXP more than likely or inputting some kind of aspect into the game that hurts gameplay overall. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of leeching simply because it encourages people basically start with a mage, but it shouldn't be removed.

3) Remove hackers and RWTers. I don't see why this is an issue. I think we can all agree on this.

4) Nostalgia is the reason we all play this game, lets be completely honest. As far as I'm concerned, removing pirates would be nostalgia for me. Being all to contact all of my old friends, people that I talked with every day for hours for over 4 years, people that I know I will never speak to again, would be nostalgic. (To the reason, I HOPE someone recognizes my name from Bera and is able to find me again. There's really nothing I want more out of this game, but its an unrealistic pipe dream).

Hope this influenced someone. Cheers.

 

Not trying to throw shade at the points Crimson has brought up. But it be nice if that player himself can create his own thread, sharing with us his views and explain his reasoning than you acting as a conduit for him.

4) Nostalgic
I kinda get annoyed at people who use word ''Nostalgic'' or ''Nostalgia", as they tend to use their definition of the word to try to get their point of across. Basing their whole reasoning on their version of nostalgia. As you and others have mentioned, nostalgia is so subjective, it doesn't mean just because they never seen or experience leeching, hacking or HP washing, it never exists. Plus when it comes to recalling old memories, we tend to sugarcoat and suppress the bad parts of it.

Everyone here plays and quit MapleStory at different points of time, and enjoy it differently. Who is to say your frame of the word or feeling is correct?

Spoiler: Example of someone who thinks their version of Nostalgia is correct

This was a thread discussing adding non-GMS/world tour maps into the game.

1) HP washing
In my opinion, HP washing is not really that big of an issue as it was in the past but also is a challenging issue to solve. The server has taken great strides to place less emphasis on washing thanks to various implementation, like Spring of Water questline, increase HP gain during advancement and introduction of HP increasing gear. However, I do feel there is room for additional improvements.

New players might get intimidated when they first login they hear if they want to experience the game fully, to play their favourite attacker class and get an invite to fight the legendary Horntail. They have to have billions in funding, spend hours on leeching and do complicated math problems. When all they recall is having less than 100m in their name during the original pre-Big Bang server and finding an ilbi from Mushmom is a big deal.

Even other private servers struggle to solve this. They agree they can't also totally ditch as it was part of the core mechanic of the game and the downside of certain classes.

Some solution they work on.

Spoiler: Custom HP system

Spoiler: HP tour

Or they just accept it and move on.
​

From my knowledge, HP washing was an unintentional feature and Nexon knowingly kept it? KMS seems to patch it out in 2017. For me, I believe there is room for HP washing to exist on this server. I also like the path of seeking external ways of gaining HP similar to Spring of Water and HP gears (Ergoth medal, Blackfist Cape, Dojo Belt) because it feels like an authentic journey we will take. Maybe in future updates completing a certain number of PQs or participating in community events can increase your HP? So HP washing becomes more of a social thing than a solo activity.

2) Leeching
"... the fact that leeching is the fastest way to level. if you just think about it for a second, literally sitting on a rope and doing nothing is more beneficial to your character than grinding yourself?"

Due to recent buff to Party Quests. I feel the above statement is mostly false. You can train faster while doing PQs than leeching, PQing is still a viable training choice till 9x. I feel the resentment comes from not being able to find players for party quest, thinking leech was the caused of it and ignoring the non-HP washing reason why players leech.

For example, while my low-level character is getting leech, I can be also selling leech covering the cost of the leech and earning money at the same time. Or I have an errand to run but I still want to train my character. Even you get HP washing players to join PQs, this might happen.



Furthermore, leeching in the original pre-bb server was a thing. (BB patch occurred on 2010/2011).

But...

stopping leech will not bring this back.


However, I think post 100, leeching seems to be a very appetizing choice. I do wish there are PQs to fill the 100 to 120/135 gaps. Maybe Romero and Juliet / Rex / Ice Knight / Dragon Rider PQ?

3) Hackers

''hackers are still rampant in this game, royals anticheat is non-existent, there are flying people in henesys and not getting banned and the only reason they do is because people report it''

At the meantime, can we consider the implementation of the lie detector? I think it helps to reduce the manpower need of the staffs, while it will not stop hackers in Henesys but it will stop economical botters in Ludibrium Dungeon or Coolies.

 

Just giving info regarding the lie detector.

Lie detector won't come as handy at this point for macro botters. They are using advanced scripts which makes them auto cc or run to cs when there are more than 1 person in the map or every few minutes to avoid detection. You won't even be able to see those botters let alone use an item on them. (One can manually report them by checking the mapowner and atmosphere of the map but this requires cognitive thought process)

It can surely help with normal robotic botters (heavy object on 1 key) because they aren't going anywhere from the fixed spot. Although they are rule breakers, they aren't posing great threats to the server compared with macros.

PS: I might be wrong if lie detector works by typing in the IGN. My memory says we had to click on the char .

 

Hackers gonna hack no matter what. That's pretty much a non-issue to me. The staff does their best. Players should do their due diligence when they see hackers and report. Until hackers are actively ruining my gameplay experience, this is good enough.

As others have stated, HP washing is a whole different can of worms. Most of it has been talked into the ground but I figured I'd toss the concept behind a potential solution into the hat for the sake of discussion:

The basis of HP washing is the difference between a characters' minimum and current MP value. So, provide an additional 1 AP automatically invested in MP per level up starting from the first (non-mage) job advancement....

The good:

1. Less emphasis on investing AP into INT for non-mage classes
   1. Lowers necessity of low level leech
   2. Lowers demand for INT gear, making it all around more affordable
   3. Allowing newer players to "play the game" and potentially breathing life back into low level content not named CPQ. One word: Nostalgia
2. Maintains the AP reset economy
   1. Buying AP resets was never the issue, it was leveling with INT. New players will feel less pressure to level up on a class they want to play with INT gear.
   2. AP going into MP means that we're not throwing off the balance of HP values without meaningful investment
3. It doesn't completely eliminate/invalidate investing in an uber-washed character
   1. Players chasing the "optimal" 30k or who just want more HP in general can still do so! If anything it means it'll just be a bit cheaper.
4. Using NL as an example... at level 140 the additional HP given would be 2860 (assuming 22 per ap) so at 140 they have almost 8k hp. Enough for core bosses but still relatively "unsafe" or needing investment for stronger stuff.
5. Can be applied retroactively
   1. A character that has existed before this "fix" could be put into place can have the AP points assigned to MP. (Of course easier said than done, but with some clever SQL its certainly doable)

The bad (that I can think of):

1. INT items less lucrative
   1. Self-explanitory, supply/demand
2. Less demand for low level leech
   1. An effective moneymaker for new bishops will be nerfed
3. Some code overhead prevent abuse
   1. This could be done by checking the potential "STR/DEX/INT/LUK total" after the AP reset against a character's current max "STR/DEX/INT/LUK total"

Just some thoughts from a fairly inactive forum user, but I'd like to see some holes poked in this idea personally.

 

The issue with HP washing isn't that it's expensive or requires you to make your character unusable for a decent chunk of the game, the issue is it's your only option to increase your HP to the amounts you need. If there was a far more expensive than hp washing method to get hp (Think the 500 hp quest, but repeatable for a lot more hp.) that would either cost a lot of mesos, or require a lot of time farming items, this would be a non-issue since anyone could do it at that point. But as it stands now, as a new player, your first character will become obsolete because HP washing isn't a form of character growth/improvement, it's a planned out feature of your character, and one you can't plan out without first having the resources to do it.