Hi Guys, I’ve been hearing different opinions on how the list is like and thus would like to hear the opinions from players much more experienced than me. I’m mainly interested in the late game rankings, with high lvl character, above average Attack gears (maybe >50?), stopper/Apple, SE, SI, MW20, Echo, etc I know about the dps chart Tim made on the valentines patch, however I have some questions. For eg, i’m not sure if it takes into account the element weak mobs for Pala for instance, as it would place them at a higher ranking. Also, it doesn’t include the dps for multitarget(s). Then there’s the series of Krex Eye video which is in contradiction with the ranking list provided. For eg, Shadower/Pally beats Heroes and Dk by a fair bit. Of course, gears/range could account for that difference among other factors. Here’s what I think the list is like, please help to give your opinion and correct me if it is inaccurate. Single target: Corsair NL Bucc Pally (ele weak) Shad BM DrK Hero MM Multitarget (only the relevant ones): DrK Shad Hero Bucc Pally Of course, each class has their own unique quirks, like Heroes being easy to play, DrK needing to Zerk, Pally having Crash, thieves having high avoid which may influence the actual numbers so feel free to include that as a factor if it is relevant to dps contribution. Edit: some links for easier reference: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/4th-job-skill-changes.135025/ https://royals.ms/forum/threads/pirate-king-krexels-2nd-eye-dps-tests-bucc-and-sair.145069/
Corsair wins a fair bit in static bosses(krex, the boss, anego, cwkpq margana, ...) and low damage bosses (zakum, ...) while nl wins by the same margin in others. I would consider these two to be equal in the rankings then. Bucc, pally, shad, bm, mm belong in the same middle cluster Drks and heroes fall slightly below the middle cluster And then you have mages that deal half the dps of the above. Multitarget wise, Drks and heroes are highest. Followed by shadowers, buccs then pally. Even when shadowers are hitting 4 targets, drks/heroes are still doing more damage if they hit 3 targets. Edit: there are countless other factors that add to overall damage which are not considered by many. Pally can contribute in helping the party do more damage by removing weapon cancel. Shadowers can use smokescreen effectively to allow attackers to move less = more damage. Smart drks/heroes will use their crash to remove def buff that will help their team do a lot more damage in HT (bishops can do the same but not instantly all the time because they might be busy with something else), etc You can argue that using mules nullifies these advantages, but attackers can't pay as much attention to their main attacker while muling
Agreed that these skills actually help out a lot in bossing aside from the dps of the class itself. As to how significant the contribution of such skills are in relevance to their dps ranking could be something to discuss too. When I play Hero and dispel the Def Up buff on HT I sometimes think about the actual effectiveness of Pally’s Crash on HT heads, since it has a 4mins CD while Hero’s Crash can remove the def buff from HT any time. In any case, seems like your dps ranking has some differences from the official chart by Tim too, notably Shads are actually stronger than Hero/DK at single target.
@FuminoAya DrK>Shad in multi target (2/3)? Meanwhile as much as the recent buff goes, i feel buccs is at a wonderful position going against the best 2, NL and Corsairs now. Definately not in the middle cluster Being the one that probably deals the best DPS when the SE mule DCs for The NL or SI+SE mule DCs for the Sair. Meanwhile instead a DPS tier chart. A tier list for an particular Boss example : Horntail might be further interesting discussion. example : SE(BM) being SS tier. NL/Paladin on S tier Moving down to the lower tiers such as Shadower/Heros which are mainly outclassed and overlooked due to how destructive these class can get when applying too much dmg onto arms. Slowing the runs significantly.
Oh, that’s an interesting point, when too much damage becomes counterproductive instead.. As for Shad vs DK multitarget it’s been on my mind too. I read some of the threads about Shad and the maths too but intuitively it seems too good to be true since Shad just win all the warriors in both single and multi targets while being tankier (high avoid+shifter+mesos guard) than them feelsbad
I’ve personally did HT quite a large amount of times with shadowers too after the buff. And suggested them to use all sorts of combinations but it never been too impressive (dps wise) compared to their own Dark Knights. (After shad buff) But this is just from a party host observation with no indepth calculations. Supportive skill wise. The Drk/Hero wins hands down with the ever so reliable def up crashes they provide. Spoiler But then again at this stage of the game. Dispelling of defense buffs are usually handled by the bishops, and seduce to be done by either Washed Bishops/Bloodwashed Shad/crashmule or simply the NLs with the rapid repositioning of FJ. Overall, i felt the balance patch makes these several classes a competitive option to choose against one another and a good change.
Paladin is stronger than bucc in general I think, though with very high range and apple/gelt bucc will eventually beat paladin because of the 199k damage cap that lowers blast's potential. After them you have shadower and BM, with shadower being a bit stronger due to higher avoid (hurricane loses damage from interruptions, and you also fall a lot in things like HT) Then you have Drk and hero, Hero got a significantly stronger damage without buffs and slightly stronger damage when you have only SE or only SI. However when you have both SE and SI Drk becomes stranger than hero. This is due to Heroes not benefiting much from SE (due to some bug with combo attack not multiplying crit bonuses) or SI (cause of fast weapons like ST or flame sword) while Drks greatly benefit from both) As for MM, it's pretty powerful when you are a low lvl with weak range but gets progressively weaker when people's range increases to the point of being the weakest class even with SI at endgame levels. This is because snipe doesn't scale with your damage range.
True, those are good points and there would be a difference depending on which class you play when you also mule. Then again I think I don’t wanna get too specific with HT mechanics for now in view of the other bosses eg helping guildies with Zak, Krex, Shaolin, ScarTarga, Cwkpq etc so I decided to just frame the rankings to single target vs multi target (2/3/4..) instead, though it’s also true that certain factors such as Armor crash is more applicable to HT
Well.. I'd rather calculate the overall damage than relying on opinions. Even if they weight quite a bit, they still are opinions and not given facts. Regarding the DPS for Shads vs DrKs at HT. DrKs hit 3 targets on the right side of HT: Head C, Right Arm & Wings When C has w.cancel active they hit 2 targets Shads hit 4 targets on the right side of HT: Head B, Head C, Right Arms & Wings When B has his W.cancel up they still hit 3 targets When C has his w.cancel up they still hit 3 targets When B and C have their w.cancel up they hit 2 targets. But then again to compare both analyitcally they need to have very similiar gear. For example: a perfect lvl 100 warrior top with 7 60% or 70% passed scrolls and a perf clean lvl 90 thief top with the same amount of 60%s & 70%s passed, and so on. Then there's not not the raw dmg but the attack speed / cast time of spells. Let's take a bishop at HT Even if the bishops hit 6* 199,999 dmg (let's use 200k for simplicity) every single genesis summing up to a total of 1.2m dmg / 3 seconds. It'll only be 400k dmg/ second. Both average and max dmg are the same here since they always hit 200k/target. And im pretty sure that requires endgame equipment and that green cheese to do. Let's take my Shadower here to compare. Back when i had 8.8k clean range with mw20 i had about 10.6k average range with Mw20, Onyx, SE & Echo i already did about 500-600k average damage/second with not so great equipment. Now this goes easily up to 600-700k dmg/second depending on the equipment. Then you have DrKs who have utility spells like crash i think it is, which enables other party members to hit harder again, does that make up for the lesser dmg? I don't even know, you'd have to place 2 100% equal equipped DrK's and Shadower's next to each other and see who whites stuff. That would atleast take things like rebuffing, avoidability, stance and dmg/time into account. Just comparing a class to another with different equip doesn't make a good comparison. Even if it's just 1 AP in difference. At those late stages of the game everything matters. e.G more Luk •> more avoidability •> less repositioning •> more active attacking time. As for the actual Dmg/time rankings. Just feeling wise i'd say top single target DPS are: Sair,NL,Bucc,Pally,BM & MM, Shadowers, DrK, Hero Probably in that order aswell Multi Target (same number of targets available (3)): Shadowers, DrK, Hero, Shadower, Pally Probably in that order too
Ok, for now the ranking list after insights from you guys: Single target: Corsair NL Bucc Pally (ele weak)/Shad (might need calc) BM (on par with shads on paper but loses the more they get interrupted) DrK Hero (stronger than DK w/o buffs) MM Multitarget (only the relevant ones): DrK Hero (stronger than DK w/o buffs) Shad Bucc Pally Pally vs Shad at single target could be discussed further, although Pally won at Krex battle there could be other factors too (time for me to calc and stop being lazy haha)
Pally krex run, as well as most of the other classes, were conducted by Nessi. The Shadower probably had a huge difference in the equip stats (much less).
