Marksman feedback [Snipe nerf poll inside]

True. It still does suck though. People just don't want their main to.. Suck as much. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

Cool, you're a scumbag


It's really frustrating. I love the class, nobody else gives a fuck because people will literally ignore you if you're not a bm, but low blowing them like this, when your character was capable of doing something helpful to themselves and parties with a skill working as intended, really blows.

But it's cool, hp washing keeps the entire economy churning so they cant fuck with that

 

You made a simple but good point why snipe shouldn’t go through wep cancel. However I would argue that in this pre-bigbang server many skill descriptions or mechanics are not even elaborated properly.

There’s Heaven’s hammer, doesn’t state that it goes through wep cancel and avoid ability and deal cap damage (whoops pala nerf next?).

Berserk doesn’t explicitly state how it’s calculated giving a huge boost when there’s SE crusher [(170+140)*2]*3 compared to Hero’s combo formula (260*1.9 +140)*2. Feels like it’s not consistent but we still keep it there cause it helps balance these classes I guess

The formula for mesos explosion is not elaborated for shadowers.

Barrage 5th hit doing 2x and 6th hit doing 4x?

Pierce doing more than cap damage?

The list goes on but now on to snipe, we could make a case that it has always been intended for it to go through weapon cancel, it’s just not specifically stated in the skill description.

We could still insist that it’s an issue but I doubt the reaction would be as big if MM wasn’t already the weakest range* class..

Personally I don’t think Cooler’s QoL ideas are necessary and I would think a further damage buff would be just as good, but that’s why we are all here to discuss.

Surely he could have worded his feedback better despite being upset at the nerf but you creating a forum account specifically just to start passive aggressive taunts is just not very constructive imo.

 

I make no apologies for what I said lol, it's too late.

I made the class because I have zero funding. Refuse to make mules for money, and snipe gives me reliable damage that I can count on myself to hopefully get my char into a comfortable place end game, I don't want to have to play into this same bogged down system of hp washing and leech mules or getting lucky at gach, I work multiple jobs irl have a life, i just like the class and its skills, it's fun. Taking away something that gives it an edge to a casual player like me, on a horrible dpm/dps class, really sucks

 

Mm doesn't need any buffs. Stop with the mindset that their damage sucks. MMs do more damage than drks and heroes. MMs peak early with their snipe skill. They have frostprey that lets them summon farm. They are only <10% weaker than buccs/pally/shad at most.

Between a random BM/mm, I would take the mm because who knows how weak their gears are, at least they have snipe.

 

It seems like Snipe hitting through cancel weapon attack was always a "feature", even past BB.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/924697-maplestory/59472847
"It was still 1m even though it only showed 500k. It still dealt 1m even to those monsters with cancel weapon attack."

https://www.hidden-street.net/forum/threads/41258-Crossbowman-Sniper-Marksman-Guide
"- has snipe, which can OHKO a monster, even if a monster has "Cancel Weapon
Attack" buff"

http://www.basilmarket.com/Archer-Crossbow-Sniper-Marksmen-Skill-builds-Post-BigBang-Thread-bwqza-1
"- snipe, as i've heard, before reorganization patch, it could still ignore cancel w.att. after that, i still don't know. the good thing is that we won't have this patch until like february next year. i don't know if it "misses" but still deals damage tho (i loved killing the event aliens like that )"

 

...u get me

And they peak early only if you max snipe asap, which most dont, because you sacrifice mmb which gives good minimum damage boost and flat w.att. otherwise lots of people can fly past you in your 13x, with just decent gear.

Shads are top dps/dpm with ME no contest, and max assassinate/step combo is much stronger than strafe even with se not working on nate

 

So let me just plainly say, getting snipe taken away during any weapon cancel really sucks, it was one of the highlights of the class that gave it distinction and opportunity to help. Breaking w.cancel fits with the description. Also weapon cancel is just a really weak mechanic to waste potions and most importantly, time!
I looked forward for months to be able to use it at max level again (had a mm in bera, many moons ago)It sounds like an extremely niche thing to be upset about but it was an ability we had, that made sense, that we now don't, and slows us down.
Yes I went off about hp washing, an altogether unrelated topic but a can of worms (bugs) in it's own right, that vastly alters the game.
But a marksman using snipe during w. Cancel does not.
You can see it working in old videos, and you can see that it remained this way for many versions of the game until snipe turned into something completely different, a different game completely really.
I loved it then and I loved it, well til a few hours ago. I'm of the opinion it was intended, seems like quite a serendipitous accident for the one attack to bypass it is also the same skill that attacks the weakpoint, meaning bypassing all defense, as it always did.

If this is for hacker detection, that's one thing, but if anything in this thread could be considered, I'd really like old snipe back...!

 

Yessss nobody touches my bananas leave the bananas alone please

Now I can no longer be bitchy to the BM about I at least can deal some damage while weapon cancel

 

Either play NL or be a mule for NLs or delete your character
This is what the server meta currently is

 

• Implemented server calculations to detect and prevent the ability to damage invincible monsters with all attack styles.

^ based on this I just wanted to flag the snipe nerf/fix thing is likely a corollary to this amendment, rather than some specific “let’s nerf marksmen even more just because” response.

I think it’s unfortunate that marksmen are indirectly being nerfed when they already have the lowest single and multi-target DPS (with the exception of mages) after the class rebalancing patch. Buffing and rebalancing changes are a can of worms I don’t particularly want to open though because this server seems incessantly resistant to this (post-BBesque, you can never please everyone etc etc etc).

As someone who plays a marksman I’d always be a bit biased... so I won’t say much more :’).

 

If you read my other posts or threads or my suggestions, I dont even want damage boosts or to be an OP class, I like it mostly as it is. I only suggested super minor changes, some of them, like DB, are common ones you hear, most were my own. Mostly pierce being a really frustrating mob skill because of cancelling, or blind, or snipe casting temporary auto target would be my biggest wants

But taking one of the few things away that we uniquely have is a true bummer for the class. Nobody uses blind and it's useless in bosses, pierce is a waste of time to use in boss battles when you cant even see what's hitting you and it will just get cancelled, and snipe is pretty much only good in the 130s/140s to close the damage gap which gets much wider after that, so losing the small edge from the snipe nerf even in its niche place really dampens the class when alternatively people can just hold down hurricane and afk and do more damage, and hurts because it was something we had

 

Just increase the damage cap from 199k to 299k
This will boost snipe significantly and also help some other classes like paladin (especially the bw one), bucc or archmage.

This is kinda realistic too because snipe is supposed to 1 hit all regular mobs yet some mobs like the shaolin monks can tank it

 

I dunno, 300k sounds excessive to me. Even just the 1v1 blind effect would be amazing for the few extra misses to help with dpm.

Then again they made assassinate insta charged and the damage output to shads was unbelievable. Buccs can hit 100k or even higher on their final line in demo or barrage or w/e.. really dont think buccs need help. They have godly iframes, high hp, stance, and insane damage.
But ALL archmages for sure need lots of skills buffed so they can boss if they want,instead of be babysitters

I'm just very hesitant for a big damage buff like that. I believe small holistic changes go a long way and help overall to the life of the class instead of just pumping more damage, it's a slippery slope

 

Be that as it may, it makes little sense for a non-boss enemy to survive a snipe, as the skill is supposed to kill any normal enemy in one hit.

 

Sure, but that was abused and learned from in some patches like the VIP alien stuff, snipe had insta death instead of damage against regular mobs, and it was abused to farm hella strong enemies with hp way over damage cap. Sometimes it be like that.

You can still have both. Insta-death to normal, non-boss flagged monsters. Mortal blow has insta-death (10% chance to monsters at half health or lower)

 

My goodness, somebody give this man his beloved Snipe back.

It's obviously not nerfing other classes neither is it buffing MM over the clouds.

On a personal note: i think most people don't care if the BM or MM has good equipment, unless it's absolutely necessary at places such as the Archer room in CWKPQ

I'd party either of both for bossruns and i think most wouldn't care if it's a BM or MM, as long as SE is maxed..

I feel you buddy, just made the discovery that i can't hit 1m dmg/s myself atleast not yet hehe

Atleast buff MM just the slightest bit on either of the skills... Won't kill the meta....

Edit: if the spell was indirectly nerfed to prevent hacking than we all can agree that this was the right step, however compensate MM's in some way atleast? It's really not too much to ask for

 

Using this a point of reference from Monday from @FireHeart

@Geyforlife MM out dps the classes that are meant the have AoE targeting (shad, drk, heroes) and also have to rotate between strafe and snipe for optimal DPS. In a 1v1 situation late game situation we out dps drks, shads, and non-elemental paladins on anything without two targets. Bucc’s dps chart isn’t even the optimized combo of barr+demo.

I’m not sure where you got the idea the class is in healthy spot. To get optimal damage like those charts the target would have to be an immobile as 2nd eye krex. It’s probably the 2nd worst class to get optimal damage outside of corsair. Shoutouts to Dark Knights too, however dark knight fair better with experience of proper zerking and hoping stance does its job. Neither bowmen have any skills to help prevent getting thrown out of the way/platforms, i-frames, or shadow shift, so even for bowmaster, getting those chart numbers are difficult. At least for BM you can tape your forehead to your space bar.

We scale the worst into end game; are we supposed to be happy we peak at 140 lol.

But at least we can summon farm?
Is that supposed to convince new players to boss as a MM?

You can keep looking at your number charts to believe MM are comparable to the other classes.

MM would get out damaged by a corsair who doesn’t have any points into ship.

edit:
I wasn’t even that die hard on getting us a buff before this patch. Matter of fact, I was shit posting on most of the buff MM threads. But I think completely wrong if someone argues MMs damage doesn’t suck.

 

REMOVE WEAPON CANCEL FROM THE GAME

 

These sort of quality of life changes don't really lead anywhere.
Buccs and Paladins were in the same position. Shadowers too.
Buccs were the weakest attackers in the game (even weaker than NLs without SE lol), the staff kept giving them random buffs (like 90% stance, shorter delays etc).
I kept talking about bucc buff but the staff said buccs got buffed already when the class still had garbage DPS

Paladins were like nerfed heroes (kinda like how MM is like nerfed BM lol) and even with the cancel crash it will just encourage you to make a crash mule rather than play a paladin. Only after making bosses weak to elements paladins became strong. Shads were also useless without bombing and got a lot of minor buffs that did nothing. Only a big damage buff helped them

Now look at MM, if you actually apply the suggestions you made (like pierce, dragon breath etc) it can help MMs grind and stuff, but will it actually make a change that will make MMs stand out? No
On the other hand making snipe hit 300k (maybe combined with a bit stronger strafe too?) will actually make MMs outdamage BMs until like lvl 160-170 at least and give you a real practical reason to make one.