I've been reading the report forums here for a little while now, and in my time here, I've noticed that bans are handed out frequently for seemingly minor infractions regarding what people say. I love that we try to keep a nice community and promote an environment that favors mature behavior, but I feel like reasons for GM action are given out too often for small instances of things like whispers between other players. If the chat filter is removed, why have such a harsh policy on utilizing that newfound freedom? When people get chippy with each other and start cussing, I find that we should encourage folks to simply block and ignore users who are acting in such bothersome ways, to save time for the GMs, and to promote better reactions to such people. I'm sure a minority of the community is posting harrassment reports for players in hopes that they get banned for something that was whispered, but I've seen too many of these posts. In my mind, that kind of behavior isn't productive in reaching the standard of maturity this server richly deserves. Here's a few reasons why I think that GMs should be lighter on users in such instances, and standards for harrassment reports should be higher: 1. Saves the GMs time (As stated earlier) 2. Blacklist / Block options are implemented for a reason 3. Sometimes, agreeable players can get mad too 4. Harrassment reports are much more one-sided in cases where both parties likely were flaming the other Now what should the solution be? I've already said it, let's start a campaign to get people to self-moderate more when dealing with users, and people should be reminded of the definition of harrassment. It's not an angry statement in passing to another player, it's the constant and unrelenting act of bothering someone else. If I am in the CPQ as an FWer and the party leader I'm up against decides to summon Teddies when I asked for Trojans, if I curse at him after the game, then he responds similarly, that's something that should be settled between us with either a block, an apology, or for us to just play on and forget about it. If I get mad at him and start defaming him with alternate accounts relentlessly, or if I start spamming him with whispers, or if I start kill stealing him, THAT is where GMs need to get involved. Otherwise, why doesn't the server feature a chat filter?
I dont understand where you have ever seen a Gm ban someone for nothing. Iv never seen them be too harsh and ban someone for something as small as cussing at eachother or fighting with each other over nothing. They ban people for harassing others or being racist and homophobic but other then that iv seen the gms settle fights between the players in game or explain in the ban appeal that what they are reporting the person for is not bannable and if they were truely offended to post it in minor offences where it will be looked at and if needed the player will be given a warning. The server is quite strict but i enjoy the fact that they take harassment so seriously, i enjoy being able to play without having nasty things said to me by other players i do not even know which has ruined alot of other servers for me that had alot of assholes. The community we have is pretty great and i feel its because of the strict rules.
Would be nice if you could link us all these frequent "minor infraction" bans that you speak of. At least one would be fine, it would clear up a lot for those who have never seen one. Because I don't think I have seen one so far.
We're fair in our discretion on what's harassment and what isnt. However, we do have a zero tolerance policy regarding racial slurs and other deragatory terms.
For what purpose? Why is it that if I tell someone to "f-ing kill themself", it's somehow better than anything you listed out? The whole purpose of what I'm trying to point out is that rules like these allow people to weaponize the reports system and take advantage of users when they get angry. If I'm whispering someone, I tell him he's "an f-ing idiot", and he calls me "a dumb n-word", how does that magically absolve me of culpability, and put him at risk to be banned? http://royals.ms/forum/threads/report-xclearj-for-racial-slurs.15521/ Here's an example of something that seems like an absolute waste of GM time, this is the kind of stuff that I'm talking about when I say we need to encourage users to utilize the blacklist function and a magical power called "just ignoring people". I will admit the GM wasn't particularly heavy handed in this case, but that's beside the point; this kind of report is worthless and should never even be accepted. More examples: http://royals.ms/forum/threads/reporting-lampion-for-sexual-harrasment.15079/ (This whole report is an absolute farce, it's in passing, the reporter was just as guilty by his own standards, and it's something that was a one time engagement that could have been resolved so much more easily) http://royals.ms/forum/threads/grizz-united-curry-player-report.15031/ (These two were engaged with the reporter and the person reporting didn't try to defuse the situation by leaving, muting, or ignoring; had she silently watched them and analyzed them based on what they were doing without direct involvement from other users like she did, this report would have more merit in my mind) Good reports: http://royals.ms/forum/threads/reporting-magicians-for-harassment.15240/ (Unprovoked behavior in the FM where it's constant and lots of people can see it) http://royals.ms/forum/threads/harassment-report.14041/ (He was probably dealing with this guy for more time than he should have had to seeing that he was in CPQ with him) If the n-word and other terms currently on the ever-changing list of epithets we can't use aren't filtered, why are they hair-trigger bans, then? Why not just filter them all? In my opinion, there's either an inconsistency here, or the server needs a word filter. Still, I want to reiterate to the other users and the GM in here that generally speaking I do like this server's attempt to achieve higher standards of maturity. I only post this thread because I see a problem arising from the current low standard for reports on epithets. The ultimate goal here is to de-weaponize reporting functions, because as it stands, I could have very easily gotten most of the people I play with banned just for a comment they made in passing, at one point or another, if I suddenly decided I had a problem with any one of them.
" if I tell someone to "f-ing kill themself", it's somehow better than anything you listed out?" It is not better in any way, shape, or form and if someone reported you for saying that, you would be banned for 3 days on your first offense. It's quite simple. We try to create a community where people can play without worrying about being exposed to bad things such as racial slurs, insults, and excessive profanity. I don't think the staff wastes its time banning people when they get reported as I believe that when someone does get banned, they truly deserve it. If they didn't want to get banned in the first place, they should have never acted out or said what they did.
So in every case, even in instances where the reporter is either egging on the user, or when they immediately resort to reporting them player, rather than resolving it themselves, you still see this as good and worthwhile? A community that reports on each other all the time isn't going to get along as well as one where the community encourages players to take care of their own problems until it becomes a hassle, in which case they are justified for getting help from the GMs. Now I've got a burning question. Why are these words unfiltered? Why not just implement a word filter? The policy works for smegas, why is it that I can freely spout epithets in chat, and as long as nobody reports me, I'm golden? If you disapprove of them so much, why is it that you don't just take a more effective route to solving the problem as opposed to a user-unfriendly policy of hair-trigger reports?
The word filter in GMS was *very* inaccurate, for what its worth. I remember at one point you were unable to say 'ch8' without it being filtered. You also couldn't say a lot of harmless words in succession "an always" for example, because "anal" would be in it.
There's a big difference btw saying a "fking idiot" and "dumb ni****". I have prob 50 reasons I can think of and more to come if you give me more time as to why there's a big difference but let's make it brief because everyone would lose their track and get tired from reading 100 walls of text. But I think we can all agree to that calling someone a "fking idiot" is pointed only to that person and is non-racial. But, if you say "dum ni****" you're literally at the same time insulting a whole group of people with the same physical trait that the insulted person has. One insult that they've kept hearing and know is one of the worsts things you can call or say to them since maybe even strollers and sandpits or stuffed animals and diapers.
I've heard the insult "f-ing idiot" my whole life, why can't I take more offense to that? Furthermore, why can't we take the venom out of such words by ignoring them and thus de-weaponizing them, to discourage people from using such epithets as insults? If folks stopped reacting to it, I think that we could help reduce its usage, and as it stands, reports are a tangible reaction to the offender. Finally, in my opinion, words are words. Regardless of the intention of the word as it were invented (or co-opted), "sticks and stones" still applies (of course assuming there's no actual harm attached to what is being said). I think that context and frequency regardless of insult should be applied, and the rulings should be applied evenly. Nexon had a different problem on their hands, and that is that they wanted to prevent people from bypassing the chat filter, because they probably couldn't ban everyone who potentially did. I can say from experience that on this server, it's perfectly viable to ban people who bypass a simple filter (just censor the words themselves and not attempted bypasses too), just like with smegas. Other than that, I understand as to why you guys would keep the word filter out, though.
Because you're insulting a bunch of people and not one person. That's like also insulting family or friends who may have have that physical trait. It's one thing to insult someone for their behavior but it's totally different to insult someone for their ethnic background. They can't help that they were born that way.
Granted, but how does this prevent us from taking a de-stigmatizing approach to stop this kind of talk? Wouldn't it be more effective if we taught people to ignore / shun / etc. the people who sling these sorts of insults at others?
The words may not insult you, but they insult others. Why don't you just not use the words yourself then if you want to cut down on reports?
So basically you are saying that if we are harassed and abused online, we need to learn to ignore it? No thank you. I think johns response sums up everything The server is not going to change its rules just so you can say whatever you please, you need to follow the rules but seeing your ban appeal, hopefully you know now that just because you change a letter to get by the autoban doesent mean that it makes it ok. Youll never be unfairly banned so to prevent future problems i suggest you read the Tos carefully.
I think it's all a matter of having some thick skin,it's perfectly normal for people to get angry and say things like profanities and racial slurs,in my opinion you give way too much ammo for players to ban eachother if they don't like eachother,rather than enforcing people to talk and resolve their problems(which is the spirit of MMOs,player interaction) As the other guy saying that when you say ''the n word'' you're insult every single person who's black,well that's wrong,I live in Africa,I've been called a ''fucking n*****'' thousand of times,and not once did I feel like they were ''insulting all my people'',in fact,that kind of thinking is actually racist since it implies everyone who's black is the same,and we're not. People get mad and people insult eachother,it's stupid to ban just because you used ''that one slur'',also I bet NOBODY has ever been banned for saying a racial slur against white people,such as ''cracker'' or ''white bread'',both which I used in occasions where I was angry,and I wasn't reffering to everyone who was white obviously.
I remember when I first joined the server and used the word HOMOPHOBIC SLUR in a smega. Everyone told me I was going to get banned and I had no idea why (I first thought that I was spamming or something, and then they told me the gms had a pet peeve for the word HOMOPHOBIC SLUR), because I'd read the T&C and I've never encountered anyone who think's that's "homophobic" before in my life. If these words are censored on the forums why can't we just censor them in smegas instead of having autobans? Censoring in other chats could be quite annoying because not everyone wants to bend over backwards to be PC. I've seen bans for people trying to avoid the autoban, which means they clearly knew about it and this I agree with completely, as they clearly know what's up, and the same could happen for those avoiding the censoring.
I think you misread my intentions if you think that I'm telling people to suck it up and ignore harassment. If people are actually harassing you (i.e. they won't leave you alone even after you ask them to stop, and whatnot), then there's nothing wrong with the current procedure, my thoughts are simply that we should raise the standards for reports on harassment from comments made in passing to something that fits the definition of "harassment" a bit more. I think John does have a point in saying that compliance leads to less reports, but at the same time, I think more can be done, namely a community intiative to promote better responses to angry players, and more user-friendly standards regarding said harassment reports, because ultimately, I think the problem isn't the rule, it's the unwritten rule of how harassment should be interpreted (loosely), around here. Nonetheless, I understand that I'm asking a lot, I merely intend to speak my mind and gauge a response to something that I percieve as an issue. I implore you to think about what I have to say, and I thank you for doing so.
