Character Name: Tanchan Last thing you did: Leeched in ulu2 Why do you think you got banned?: Probably making it rain with 10 meso drops. Ban message when attempting to log in: This is an ID that has been deleted or blocked from connection. What GM banned you (optional): Does anybody really know this question?
a simple keybind that i sometimes assign to my right mouse button the inputs unclude: left click, 1 0 enter and a small amount of delay on a simple loop to do nothing more than to make it rain because why not. ill even throw in a link to the set up https://gyazo.com/e3bd8a67e127eb61bf79d277020fd6c3
are you aware macros are not allowed? it's written in the rules that you agreed with upon account creation
and the way i had seen it was a macro that could be played on endless loop which could assist in mindlessly grinding while not even being at your computer. a macro that has no impact on the game in any kind of situation, especially on a mage, i couldnt understand what the problem with something so harmless would be. in what situation would that help me progress in any way shape or form in this game? if anything its detrimental since im just wasting mesos
Game Hacking - The act of using or benefiting from any third-party program, macro program or otherwise defacing or modifying any part of the game software to gain any sort of advantage over other players, or otherwise selling, advertising, distributing or posting information related to the act. Punishment: Permanent ban. Now stop me if im wrong, but it clearly states here that "macro program or otherwise defacing or modifying any part of the game software to gain any sort of advantage over other players, or otherwise selling, advertising, distributing or posting information related to the act". now sure its a program that lets me assign a few keybinds to facilitate an action, but i am in no way modifying part of the game or software, nor is this used to gain any sort of advantage over other players.
This type of dropping could be beneficial for chief bandits and shadowers for their meso explosion skill. The software you're using is not provided by the game. You need a specific mouse / software to be able to do these actions with single clicks. Having multiple actions assigned to single keybinds gives an unfair advantage to players that have this kind of equipment which we don't support. The macro you're banned for however isn't related to the meso dropping, its something you dubbed as: 'telecasting' in your chat history where you claim you press a button and it plays a series of keys which you use for leech selling on your mage where you claim to be hitting an additional wave of monsters timed perfectly with your macro software upon their respawn time. Can you see how that's something we consider as an unfair advantage?
Sure, if i was playing a chief bandit. but im a fire poison mage doing nothing but dropping 10 mesos. besides even with this macro from what ive seen the damage from shadowers still doesnt even compare to all of the other bossing classes so its still just a giant money sink. as for the telecasting macro i was once again under the impression of what was stated before, where so long as i wasnt setting it to an infinite loop it might slide. yesterday was the first time someone actually told me that it could be punished for something that simple. besides my mage isnt even at the level where i can sell leech. but hey if you guys feel so strongly about simply facilitating an action to press one key for two, by all means keep the account. infinite macro loops are one thing, two inputs for the price of one to simply facilitate the action of something that is already possible to do in the game is one thing i'll never understand why you guys crack down so hard on. its also possible to get macro programs without having a "gaming" keyboard or mouse. if other games thought this much was considered hacking i doubt large gaming companies like logitech or razer would implement such features in their products
oh by the way. that information about the telecasting thing wasnt what i had said. i simply said i had a macro that would facilitate it. the person who told me about it being an offense was the one who told me the specifics of telecasting on a certain map, and how those who telecast are able to use the skill an extra time per spawn.
I'll just take this time to write my understanding on this whole appeal, as well as my stance on the macro usage in this game. So firstly, I would just like to state that, once again, my character only just reached level 105 and I have not had the opportunity to sell leech, thereby countering one of your arguments. The information regarding telecasting benefits was explained to me by the leecher i had received that last bit of leech from, PasDeVoux (HS mule of the leecher) or something like that (it's been awhile name might not be exact). Until this time I saw it merely as a faster repositioning tool. Secondly, I fully understand your concern about the use of macros, especially when they can be set into cycles that would allow a player to train while afk, something you would refer to as botting. However, a simple two key bind which plays once, in this case it would have been teleport followed by the skill (meteor, blizzard, or genesis) is merely a case to simplify the action which can get tiresome after extended hours. This action for telecasting is already present in the game, thereby this simplification through the act of a macro should not be seen as being a special privilege of the user which gives him an edge over the rest. Vacuum or invulnerability hacks are such things that fall under that category. The player would still be present at their computer, and are still there to reply to someone at all times should there be any concern. In the case of the meso drop that I have used, once again, I'm on a mage, not a Chief Bandit or a Shadower, however even if i was, you can find multiple threads about their lack of damage and how they are rarely taken for boss runs. Not to mention meso explosion only increases in damage based on the skill level and not on the characters attack range, so this skill does cap and there's no extra benefit to the player aside from maybe dropping faster and using up more money. Whats wrong with a simple time saver? Once again, this only simplifies an action that's already executable within the game. Finally, macros are accepted in all other games other than competitive PvP. The reason for this is due to the high ping related benefits and frame perfect input, which given the speed of a no delay macro, can be easily obtained over a person's ability to repetitively spam a certain set of buttons. In this game, that benefit to the macros is irrelevant, since the same outcome can be obtained by simply holding down the key. Gaming companies, such as Logitech and Razer, have both implemented the designation of macros within their peripheral's software for the user's use. Large companies like these that target gamers, and say so in their slogan (e.g. Razer's For Gamers, by Gamers) would most likely not include such features if the use of macros had been globally seen and agreed upon as hacking. I am aware that not everyone is fortunate enough to own one such gaming keyboard, and many play on laptops which do not have this programability, however, third party macro application exist, for example upon a very simple google search, http://www.itoady.com/ is the first link to appear. So given this, macros are available to literally everybody, not just those that own a gaming or mechanical keyboard. The only thing that should be of concern is how you use the macro. To conclude this argument of mine, your rules state that macros cannot be used to gain the advantage over another player, or otherwise selling, advertising, distributing or posting information related to the act, and I can assure you based on this rule I have done no such thing. The macros i have used so far only include the meso drop which i have shown in the link above. I have a macro for telecasting sure, but I'm not at the stage where it can even be used, so technically I haven't even gone against what you would consider an abuse of the macros at this point, as I have never had the opportunity to use it. However, couldn't it be seen as someone who can more actively and successfully use the telecast macro be more beneficial to other players? To explain this, most of the mages in this game, if not all of them, will, have, or still do sell leech. If everyone of them were able to use the telecast macro, selling leech would become more efficient, and the players who buy leech would be able to level up faster. Given this, it doesn't only aid the user in facilitating the action, but also speeds up the leech process for the buyers, a win-win in my eyes. Though opinions may vary, and certainly it can be said that macros can be taken to an abusive level, it comes down to the user's decision to follow the guidelines set by the game. Question you may ask: Q: Couldn't it be seen that you didn't follow the guidelines we have set for this game in the Terms and Agreement you accepted before registering for this game? A: From my understanding your terms stated that it can't give an advantage that other players cannot achieve. In this case, telecasting is already achievable as well as dropping mesos. I'm simply speeding up the process for no reason other than to make it rain money on my mage and not using it for the purpose to drop more faster on a character where it matters, such as the CB or Shadower class. Telecasting saves my wrists the extra strain and relief from carpal tunnels. Now if you still feel that what I have done still goes against everything you stand for and believe in, that's fine. I've gotten my point across. However, you have banned me for simply saying i have a macro for telecasting which I have not used. This does not come across as fair nor should this be acceptable. I understand your intent to douse the flame before it spreads so to speak, however if anything, wouldn't it be better to compromise at this point in the game? For example, you can make it clear as day that the use of all macros, small or otherwise is forbidden, and I will accept a temporary ban for a given amount of time and refrain from using them within your game upon return. Or just simply revoke the ban if you happen to agree with any part of my stance on this matter.
the rules say no macros. You can write a paragraph or two about your stance and views on things however you could've prevented your s ituation by just asking a staff member or opening a forum thread if you wanted to know for sure if you were allowed to use non-looping macros (which you arent't, excluding the macro of 3 skills you can set in-game).
I had clearly stated that it was not only my stance on the subject but also how your terms and conditions are to be interpreted. I clearly stated that in the games T&C there is no space that simply says, the use of macros, FOR ANY REASON, is worthy of a ban. In the two spaces that you mention the use of macros, there are conditions for X, where i have stated that i have understood and accepted those conditions, and have instead used it for Y. I am merely entertaining the idea of having a structured discussion regarding the matter due to there being information which is liable to multiple interpretations.
however you chose not to have this discussion prior to you using the macro's but rather after you got banned for them.
I talked a great deal about macros in the game amongst friends, guild members, and party members, and there had been nobody that had seen what I had done to be faulty or could lead to a ban. After they heard what I had explained from my point of view on macros based on whats written in the T&C, a simple facilitating input versus a loop that can be abused, not one person told me that what I had done could be punishable by a permanent ban. There was only one person who had told that it was, in fact, an issue that could result in a permanent ban and that was the last person I bought leech from, and also the person who reported me. Had i received actual confirmation from any of these people of the severity you make it out to be, I would have brought this up sooner or dug through the forums for absolute confirmation and simply deleted my macros for the game. But as I went to sleep right after being told this to waking up with a ban notice, here I am now trying to appeal for a macro that I haven't used for any benefit so that I can maybe get off with a temporary ban, delete my two macros, and continue to enjoy the game with the people I have met on the game. On a side note kinda relevant but also not... this just popped into my head a while back but are simply rebinding keys illegal? like technically it's still a 1 key press 1 input thing but lets say i rebind my mouse left click to the - key on the numpad of my keyboard, move the inventory screen so that the drop meso button overlaps the ok confirmation button, and then just hold down -. would that constantly apply left clicks, imitating the meso drop macro (but keeping it solely at 10 mesos and no higher), or would it function the same as they mouse and click once when you let go of the key? if the former does that make it illegal as well?
you're free to rebind keys for 1:1 actions, this is supported in game as well (you can rebind JUMP to spacebar for example instead of alt) if you were to rebind mouse click to the - key on your numpad it would have to register as a 1:1 click, not a 1:∞ clicks (as holding the mouse button down doesnt provide ∞ clicks)
just because your guildies/friends didnt warn you about your macro usage doesnt make it ok to experiment on your own. If you wished to explore the borders of what's allowed and what isn't you shouldve contacted a staffmember regarding your questions beforehand which you didn't thus you got banned for macroing
Then I would suggest you take the time to update your T&C and make it clear that the use of macros gets its own tab in the major violation tab that clearly states: any and all usage of macros is forbidden within the game, aside from the three 3-skill macros provided within the game, because right now all it states is just conditional usage of macros, which is the reason this entire appeal is started. Probably less than half the people in this game actually visit the forums page and probably even less than that have taken the time to actually fully read the T&C. If this were any other game I assure you when you install it and you get up to that page even you yourself wouldn't read the giant block of text that appears, you would scroll to the bottom and simply hit *I agree*. Now I'm not using this as a dodge or anything I'm aware that even if those players don't read it they still have to abide by it, but when someone actually takes the time to read the T&C, they should be able to clearly distinguish what is okay and what isn't and not leave it up to the GM's own interpretations. Both parties should be fully aware of whats legal and what isn't within the game. There shouldn't have to be any questions to ask at all. And once again, the only macro I've had to chance to utilize was a repeated 10 meso drop macro on a mage. I have to be 120 and have the ultimate mage skill to have any sort of use with the telecasting macro which, once again, I had not reached as I only hit 105. If i didn't believe i had anything to use against this ban claim I wouldn't have even made this appeal. And again, I'm not asking to be getting off scot-free because sure, it goes against the intended T&C, but my argument within the appeal should have some weight on the matter of this ban.
And again it comes down to: if you needed clarification on any of our rules, you should've asked us and we would've gladly helped you out instead of us finding out you've been talking about and attempting all sorts of macro's on your own.
Except it doesn't. I didn't need any clarification on the rules until someone told me there was something that wasn't properly explained in there but rather somewhere in the forums. If you want people to be fully aware of what they can or cannot do, that's your responsibility as admins to ensure this. Nobody will go digging through the forums to find something related to the rules unless they stumble upon it. Everything should be crystal clear from the T&C and not leave any room for potential holes like this.
