I'd like to start with full disclosure. A 30-day ban was imposed on me today, with the supposed infraction being "account sharing." As @Muff can attest, I had been seeking some general help in the forum shoutbox after receiving a ban notice when I logged into Royals from work. Like most Royalers, I'm here because I love the community. I love my guild and - honestly - logging on to spend time with them is the only thing I've been able to look forward to these past few weeks... Adult life is hard, kids. I've been struggling a lot with minor depression. This game and these people really help me. So I panicked. All I could focus on was that ban notice. Since I work for a University, I knew there was a fair chance that it was an IP ban, given the potential # of Royalers to be found in any college population... But I was still freaking out. So I called my S.O. and frantically had him help me check to see if it really was just an IP ban. I guess my mistake was putting that in the shoutbox? I've been sitting here in tears for hours over this situation. Here's where I'd like to start this discussion. I've gotten a lot of messages about the tiptoe'ing that most of us/you do to avoid being banned on a "rules are rules" basis. I struggled for a long time to decide whether or not to start this discussion thread, simply because I'm afraid of further retaliation. That's not right. Community management is everything. That's the topic of the week right? At the end of the day, I want to believe our admins really care about us as players. The T & C section includes this phrase: I don't believe a "rules are rules" justification for a 30-day ban here is "necessary and appropriate." I'm not here to submit a ban appeal, and I'm not requesting that my ban be reduced or overturned. I want to start a dialogue using this situation as a starting point. Neither I nor my S.O. benefited from that one login. He did not actually play on my account. He was attempting to assuage my distress when I called him bawling my eyes out with panic. He doesn't even understand how MapleStory really works. First offense: 30-day ban. Conversely, someone who maliciously discriminates against another player in-game for their gender, race, or religion? First offense: 3-day ban. Someone who uses 3rd party programs to allow their characters to move when they're not controlling them, giving them an advantage over other players? First offense: 3-day ban. Someone who harasses and stalks other players? First offense: 3-day ban. As mentioned above, the staff reserve the right to take actions that are appropriate. It is your prerogative to determine what is appropriate punishment, using the T & C as a baseline. I hope that the administration is bringing on staff that understand what this means. Ban appeals are - by nature - designed to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Yet, all I've seen are links to ban appeals that were reverted from 3-day bans to permabans simply because GMs didn't want to take the time to differentiate between situational cases. Don't hide behind your stone wall and throw out "rules are rules," when asked for justification. All games start from the idea of inclusion. That's why we're all here, right? For better or worse, we all wanted a place to enjoy something we love with like-minded individuals. Inclusion also means you need to consider when your users need support. Please consider the idea that GMs and moderators (however the dynamic works) should evaluate situations like this on a case-by-case basis and devote some empathy and consideration with respect to due process. And if not...then I don't believe it's unreasonable to request that your ironclad rules be re-evaluated. Major Infractions: Account Hacking - Spoiler: Description The act of accessing, restricting, or inhibiting any game account of which was not initially created by you by any means, including any sort of account phishing, editing or defacing of the game, or additionally, the act of soliciting or attempting to obtain any private account information from any individual who owns an account on MapleRoyals through any method. Punishment: Permanent ban. Game Hacking - Spoiler: Description The act of using or benefiting from any third-party program, macro program or otherwise defacing or modifying any part of the game software to gain any sort of advantage over other players, or otherwise selling, advertising, distributing or posting information related to the act. Punishment: Permanent ban. Server Attack - Spoiler: Description The act of directly attempting to disrupt, alter or otherwise tamper with any server or connection associated with the game, including denial of service attacks. Punishment: Permanent ban. Duping - Spoiler: Description The act of exploiting any sort of glitch, unintended feature, flaw in game design, or using third party programs, with the intent to duplicate items or mesos, including knowingly possessing or requesting illegitimate items or mesos. Punishment: Permanent ban. Malicious Programs - Spoiler: Description The act of transmitting or providing access to sources of any software or other materials that contain any viruses, worms, trojan horses, defects, date bombs, time bombs or other items of a destructive nature. Punishment: Permanent ban. Illegal Content - Spoiler: Description The act of providing, transmitting ,or otherwise allowing access to non-public information without permission from the rightful owners of the content, including the transmission of third-party trade secrets. Punishment: Permanent ban. Game Monitoring - Spoiler: Description The act of scripting, macroing, or otherwise monitoring actions of the game, including "packet sniffing" for any purpose. Punishment: Permanent ban. Real World Trading - Spoiler: Description The act of exploiting the software or the game for any sort of commercial purpose, including buying or selling items, mesos, or services for real world currency or barter, or additionally, any and all solicitation, advertisement or other promotion of the aforementioned. Punishment: Permanent ban. Improper Files - Spoiler: Description The act of operating MapleRoyals using altered, damaged, outdated, edited file or otherwise any game files that were not provided by MapleRoyals Staff, including but not limited to any changes to the User Interface or language of the game text, and use of outdated MapleRoyals files more than 14 days separated from the time of the files becoming outdated. Punishment: Permanent ban. Account Sharing - Spoiler: Description The act of sharing the use your account, sharing account information with any other individual, or the act of logging into or otherwise using an account owned by another person, with or without permission, regardless of whether or not the information was directly or indirectly shared. Punishment: First offense - 30 day ban, Second offense - Permanent ban. Please be aware that, in cases of severe abuse as per discretion of staff, we reserve the right to respond with a permanent ban regardless of if it is your first offense. See appendix for more information. Moderate Infractions: Staff Impersonation - Spoiler: Description The act of expressing, implying, or otherwise stating that you or your actions are endorsed by MapleRoyals staff, that you are a part of our administration or staff team when you are not, claiming privileges or rights by association to staff, or misleading players to believe any of the above. Punishment: First offense - 7 day ban, Second offense - Permanent ban. Solicitation - Spoiler: Description The act of advertising or soliciting any sort of commercial opportunities of any nature, including chain letters, pyramid schemes, investment opportunities or commercial advertising, or additionally providing access to any location that does the above. Punishment: First offense - 7 day ban, Second offense - Permanent ban. Information Harvesting (Stalking) - Spoiler: Description The act of collecting any information about the game or any individual associated with the game, including players, ownership or any involved third-parties, without their expressed consent, regardless of the location of the act. Punishment: First offense - 7 day ban, Second offense - Permanent ban. Glitch Abuse - Spoiler: Description The act of exploiting any errors in game design or any features or bugs, documented or otherwise, that are not meant to be available in order to gain any sort of competitive advantage. Punishment: First offense - 14 day ban, Second offense- Permanent ban. Robotic Play - Spoiler: Description The act of engaging in robotic or automatic play which allows any character you own to function autonomously or affect any portion of the game without your presence. Punishment: First offense - 7 day ban, Second offense - Permanent ban. Vote Abuse - Spoiler: Description The act of attempting to, or successfully, bypassing the restrictions of voting no more than once per 24 hours. Punishment: First offense - 14 day ban, Second offense - Permanent ban. Please be aware that, in cases of severe abuse as per discretion of staff, we reserve the right to respond with a permanent ban regardless of if it is your first offense. Minor Infractions: Objectionable Behavior (Harassment) - Spoiler: Description The act of engaging in any sort of rude, harassing, vulgar, obscene, hateful, threatening or abusive discourse with another player, or alternatively in a setting in which unintended audiences may be present such as all publically transmitted chat or serverwide messages. This includes persistent badgering, flaming, mass defamation or disruption of another player. Punishment: First offense - 3 day ban, Second offense, 7 day ban, Third offense - Permanent ban. Objectionable Behavior (Disruption) - Spoiler: Description The act of engaging in any sort of action that is deemed to be excessively disruptive to the individuals around you, including spamming or flooding chat or skills. Punishment: First offense - 3 day ban, Second offense, 7 day ban, Third offense - Permanent ban. Hate Speech - Spoiler: Description The act of transmitting any sort of content or acting out any scenario which could be perceived as derogatory or otherwise prejudiced towards any group of people based on their race, sex, gender, life choices, or any other division. Punishment: First offense - 3 day ban, Second offense - 7 day ban, Third offense - Permanent ban. Inappropriate Content - Spoiler: Description The act of transmitting any sort of inappropriate content, including vulgar, obscene, fraudulent, threatening, libelous or sexually explicit materials, or alternatively transmitting any content that is privately owned. Punishment: First offense - 3 day ban, Second offense - 7 day ban, Third offense - Permanent ban. Kill-stealing - Spoiler: Description The act of attacking bosses or monsters on a map persistently without the system designation of ownership via the /mapowner in-game command, or alternatively last-hitting any bosses or monsters on a map without that same designation, without the expressed permission of the player who does have that designation. Punishment: First offense - 3 day ban, Second offense - 7 day ban, Third offense - Permanent ban. Map Looting - Spoiler: Description The act of looting one or more items dropped from a boss monster, regular monster or other map element without the system designation of ownership via the /mapowner in-game command, or alternatively without the expressed permission of the player who does have that designation. Punishment: First offense - 3 day ban, Second offense - 7 day ban, Third offense - Permanent ban.
So what ultimately is the suggestion that you're making? That Staff should be more lenient in delivering bans? That ban current ban durations should be modified to reflect different ideals? Because there have been plenty of times where Staff have deviated from the specific guidelines of the T&C to deliver punishments that are more in line with the needs of a particular situation. [also, insert joke about integrity of this game something something lack thereof]
Not necessarily more lenient. I understand indiscriminate leniency would open the floodgates to administration horror. Rather, I think they should evaluate bans carefully instead of slapping on a tag and moving it down the factory line. I disagree with hate-speech and similar transgressions being listed as "minor infractions." Any words or actions rooted in making this community more discriminating is at least moderate. Furthermore, those minor infractions are all given more than 1 shot at improving. 3 days, then 7 days, then perma (obviously with staff discretion to change at any time, etc.). My situation was not given due process, just a 30-day ban sticker popped on it with no follow-up. This is considering that 2 GMs were present when I was in the shoutbox and said *the incriminating thing*, which was that my S.O. had helped me verify that the situation was a network issue rather than an account issue. Err, hope that helps to clarify what I was trying to express.
It does, thanks for the clarification! For what it's worth, I do agree with you and I actually brought up a similar point about a year ago. Ultimately, their response was that it's inefficient and unrealistic for Staff (at that time at least) to deal with abuse reports and ban appeals at such a level. Hopefully this can be reconsidered with the newest addition of interns, as well as the recent influx of highly qualified applicants.
Personally speaking, I think the punishment of minor account sharing is too severe. The original motivation behind account sharing bans is to prevent people from taking turns to train and grind on one character, which is unfair to other players. Therefore, the severity of punishment should reflect how much unfair advantage was gained through account sharing. If two people have been sharing an account for weeks, or even months, then a significant unfair advantage was gained. In this case, I agree that a permanent ban is warranted. If the action of account sharing has only lasted one or two days, even if some training or grinding were involved, it's not that big an advantage. Currently, this case would be subject to a permanent ban, but I think it should be changed to a 14-day ban. This is in accordance with vote abuse punishments, where moderate infractions are punished by 14-day bans since they don't lead to big advantages. Some might argue that account sharing is different from vote abuse. The advantages gained via vote abusing is easily reversible by removing NX, while the effect of account sharing (leveling up, etc.) may not be easily reversible. In response, I say that admins and GMs are free to use other means to negate that advantage, such as taking mesos from the character's inventory in accordance with leech prices. Still much more appropriate and humane than a permanent ban. Finally, there are one-time occurrences of account sharing that don't lead to any unfair advantage in gaming (which is OP's case). In particular, if the "account sharing" only involves logging into the account but doesn't involve character selection, then it's impossible to gain any gaming advantage through that action. Currently, this action would be subject to a 30-day ban, but I think it should be changed to a 3-day ban or 7-day ban. The consequence could be more severe for repetitive offences, but for first offence, those are the ban lengths that I consider appropriate.
Yours shows way more comedic prowess ;-; There are a lot of valid suggestions - thanks for linking! A graduated banning system does sound like a viable (and preferred) alternative for the current state of things. Maybe someone will volunteer to code a fun, easy-to-use slider for ban mods. One click to drag from the standard 3-day-ban to a 10-day-ban lel. While it seems like more work on the surface, I think the benefits outweigh the costs. Morale is an ongoing issue on this server, with players and with admins. As someone in this situation, I'd feel less wronged if the ban times discrepancy weren't...27 DAYS. Furthermore, it would be ideal for admins deal with less hostility if a reasonable ban system were implemented; they'll want to actually stick around longer and (hopefully) find their jobs less jading. Additionally, saying that it's "too much work" is an explanation and not justification. I think the distinction is important
A less severe duration might be something to discuss, but I feel generally people will still be upset because they got banned for something they don't feel should warrant a ban (despite it being explicit in the rules not to account share). Ultimately the minor account sharing ban is designed to discourage people from sharing account details in the first place (at least that's how I read it). There's really no reason for anyone to know your details. If someone admits to using a friends account to boss/leech/use a mule, the same swift response would have happened, just with a permanent ban. <-- to clarify, it's the "speed of the ban hammer falling" that you think should be changed? As for morale, maybe I'm just looking at it the wrong way, but is it really fair to say it's unfair to get in trouble for breaking the rules? Bad morale on account of breaking a rule... isn't that sort of brought on by the person?
Thanks for your comment! In @iEatEmoKids 's linked post, they mentioned that the entire idea of a ban system is to encourage penitence and I completely agree with you both. While "I didn't know" and "I didn't read the rules" should not be acceptable excuses to overturn a ban, the punitive action against that in the instance of this account-sharing seems too heavy-handed to be considered a learning tool. 4 hours between slimes already seems like a lifetime to me. 30 days is terrifying...
Thanks for your comment~ I'm not arguing against the, err, speedy ban hammer. I'm contesting the size (?) of the available ban hammers. In the moment, I was panicking and crying and couldn't really imagine spending another few hours at work not knowing if I had been account-banned or if something had just gone in a horrible direction somehow. I don't think that I - as dictated in the T & C - compromised the integrity of the game. You describe it as the "minor account sharing ban," but do you think 30 days is truly a minor ban? The infractions currently described as minor have 3 and 7 day punitive bans. If this account sharing situation is considered minor, as well, shouldn't it also have a comparative ban period? To reiterate, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a ban involved. I'm also not asking for an overturn. I understand the need to encourage penitence and make sure people read the rules. 3 days is ample time to read the rules. 7 days is ample time to re-read the rules. 30 days is not a warning; it's a statement to stop playing Royals... With regard to the morale comment, I'm referencing the entire outlook that players here have where they just don't expect their voices to be heard. The fact that it's just accepted and meme'd is hugely terrifying. I don't think normalizing the bleakness of the admin state is going to help but obviously there's not much I can do about other people's behavior there
Royals has a "no exceptions" policy, in which punishments are sentenced regardless of the context or intentions of the player. Also, the staff can override any rule at their discretion. But, this clause in the rules is used exclusively to make punishments more severe, rather than move in the opposite direction. Because of this, any experienced player knows exactly what lines they can't cross or what topics they can't joke about if they don't want to get permanently banned. This is why I have many friends, former and current players alike, who complain about the Royals staff. But, I have seen the staff shown mercy occasionally. I think the strictness here is not due to the staff as people, but rather the zero tolerance culture that Royals as a server has had for as long as I've been here (and surely much longer). Anyway, you're definitely not alone in your sentiment. I believe the status quo needs to be reformed but alas, I'm only a small fish in a big pond. Your punishment of a 30 day ban really doesn't fit the "crime", and it's even more tragic that you only got "caught" because you mentioned it in shoutbox. So, it's not fair. But, I don't expect any exception would be made for you because to do so would require a reform of the strict banning culture Royals has had for years. Not sure if this helps at all, but my thoughts go out to you
Here's the thing. I get that the point of banning account sharers that actively play 1 character, since that gives them an unfair advantage. However, in this scenario OP said that she was having trouble logging in from one of the locations she plays at and was asking for help in the shoutbox. She then had her S.O. log in from another location she plays from, simply to see if it was an account or IP ban. He/she wasn't playing on the account, did not farm/grind/sell/buy anything that would be an unfair advantage as far as I can tell. And the GMs/Admins would not have known had OP not continued to ask for help in the shoutbox, unless the Admin team has the resources to actively monitor all IP log on attempts, 24/7. If OP was account sharing in order to gain an advantage, why put it in the shoutbox? All she wanted to do was to ask for help. Instead, GMs ban her because "rules are rules", and hits her with the same ban hammer as those actually abusing account sharing? That doesn't do anything except ostracize GMs from the community, showing that they don't want to help and are only there to enforce the T&Cs with no exceptions. Could/should she have dealt with the situation better? Absolutely. Definitely could have waited until she got home. But since this was so minor, honestly even a 3 day ban should have sufficed, much less a 30 day ban.
Something happened to my friend and confused me quite long time,I would like to request a clarification from @Evan. My friend lent her E-mail to her sister to register an account since her sister didn't have one.But never used her sister's account since then.Is it called account sharing?
It's not hard at all,and the point I focus on is what account sharing prevents.Used by other people?Or include any information relate to other people?
Do you want/expect GMs to ignore players admitting to breaking rules simply to entertain the appeal of a lesser broken rule? ^ This 100% (I've seen that you responded to Evan's post. I'm just quoting for truth)
So if I understand this correctly... A 30-day ban has been issued as seen "necessary and appropriate" for simply confirming to see if you were banned under Account Sharing when said person who logged on your account did not go into game, did not log on to a character, and thus not actually playing the game; a 30-day ban. Really doesn't seem like these bans are done through a case-by-case basis unless this is what staff actually find necessary and appropriate. To my belief, rules are made to serve as a guideline for what should not be done and what is to be followed so abuse and exploits are not re-occurrences to "preserve the integrity of the game." Mentioned somewhere above already, obviously the intention here was not to exploit anything; I'm still mind boggled that a 30-day ban was delivered for this when all that you wanted was to alleviate your distress while at work. When I first started playing this game, to my perspective, this game had a great community. I was greeted by very nice people who let me into their group and that also was my main drive for continuing to play the game. It pains me when others who find their escape from stress and other things in life has it taken from them especially when they're a positive aspect to the whole. Sorry to hear that this happened. These bans should be handled more carefully and the punishment should also be revised...
Don't break the rules and you won't get banned. I have no sympathy for you or anyone else that gets banned. I've helped run a gaming community for 6 years now and these guys are actually way more lenient than we are. We had multiple(as in 12) battlefield 3 and 4 servers ranked in the top 25-50. Including one that was rank 1 in the world. We instantly and permanently banned anyone for even minor infractions. If you break the rules, you get the boot. The same applied to our other game servers and even our VOIP clients. I've even had to remove veteran members of the community who had been there longer than me, close to 10 years. Tldr: I don't see anything wrong with their rules and actually think they should harsher. Also, after a ban appeal is denied, all forum access should be IP banned as well.
Account sharing is a big deal and it should have a severe punishment. However, it does feel like there is something wrong when players who are intentionally involved in harassment or any form of hate speech would get a 3-day ban on their first offense, while cases like these would get a 30-day ban. I don't believe that the 30-day ban on the first offense should be changed, but I believe that this "Please be aware that, in cases of severe abuse as per discretion of staff, we reserve the right to respond with a permanent banregardless of if it is your first offense." should also be used as a way to reduce first offense bans in general depending on the situation. The suggestion is just to give the GMs the ability to give less severe bans on someone's first offense based on their own judgement of the situation, similar to the ability to give permanent bans on someone's first offense. Just a thought
bro,First of all, I respect you . But do you think you're being too strict? Imagine that sometimes a game circle is like a microcosm of a society. We do need to punish those who seriously break the rules, but imagine that if you make some mistakes in your life, you won't face the death penalty directly, even if you're in prison and you're tied to your freedom. But you can still watch newspapers and baseball and even watch TV. What I'm saying is, we need to punish people who break the rules on a large scale. There is also a need to give some first-time offenders a chance to forgive them like a child. Even if they are permanently banned, I think they should be able to browse the forum and even offer constructive advice to help the community get better. I wish we could treat those new people as children, and if they just make minor mistakes, why not give them a chance for confession? I tell myself from time to time that we should use love to influence others, Sometimes this is more effective than the rules that bind them (of course I'm not asking for rules to be removed), and sometimes we lose patience and ignore people directly. I believe that the MapleStory of a decade or so ago attracted us sometimes with a pure friendship. Now I've grown up, I don't have much time to stay here, maybe all I can do every day is say good morning to my friends and AFK in FM or henesys.I love this game, whether it was more than 10 years ago or now. So far, I still think it's great that those gm are working hard for us. We should learn to understand them.
Treat it like the real world? Have you travelled at all? The real world is not forgiving. Even in my home country, dozens if not hundreds of Americans are imprisoned there and fined thousands of dollars for bringing guns / bullets in there suitcases every year. Simply because they couldn't be bothered to do a quick Google search on the law's of the land they were traveling to.(10 years in jail for a gun and 1 year for every bullet) The same applies here on Royals. Ignorance of the rules is no way to prove your innocence or ask for leniency. Try traveling through south east Asia with a bit of drugs on you. You can and will get the death penalty. As for banning people from the forums as well, that suggestion comes from actual experience dealing with banned people. The majority are toxic and only stick around to stir up shit. And we do not want "advice to make the community better" from people who could not even follow the agreed upon rules and regulations of the community. That's the same reason why people who have been to jail cannot vote.
