Can Castellan be weak against Fire? This person be weak against lightning cause he's moist Castellan Toad 3rd body of Zakum looks like he should be weak against some element since he's a fusion of rock and magic. Maybe each body can have a different elemental weakness or just 1 body can have a weakness. inb4 fear of making Paladin's and Mages too strong.
2 bosses that I can think of that can be elemental weak are the horntail heads A and B A is ice elemental and usually ice mobs are weak to fire, while B is fire elemental and could be weak to ice. Head C is lightning elemental and should probably remain neutral
That's interesting! But still I don't know. It will be easy for most pallies to 199k crit with echo using stoppers on ele weak heads; in that case it would be too op. I still believe pallies shouldn't be top dps, they already are at krex as IronMeme mentioned and I think that's enough. What do you guys think?
I think it would be pretty fair, while paladins would be able to deal significant damage to Head A/B and the first prehead their damage against the other parts would still be bad and they don't have the multi-target capabilities of heroes/Drks who can hit 3 parts at the same time while still doing high damage.
As long as Paladin's have weak dps, their weapon cancel support skill will just subject them to be mules in boss runs. I think at bosses with multiple forms like Horntail and Zakum at least 2/3rds of the forms or body parts should have some elemental weakness Paladin's and Mages can abuse. The balance comes from other 1/3rd of the fight where they have no elemental advantage and are subjected to sucking.
I posted this in one of my feedback threads a while back. Some of this is outdated now but I'd still support this as is. I was actually planning on expanding upon this idea in a new thread soon focusing on the pros of adding elemental advantages to more bosses for Paladins/Mages(Excluding holy advantages for what I think are obvious reasons) as well as making the 3 warrior classes a bit more viable as a whole(Because LBR we're playing NLstory) but I haven't gotten around to typing it out yet. If it isn't clear, I voted yes
Yes, I can understand that. However, even if A and B were to be ele weak, I would still prefer a hero or a DK (power crash) over a pally since they can hit those two heads at the same time. Unless the purpose of this thread @OrcaGel is to give a bossing viability to paladins in general? Paladins at the moment shouldn't have any problem joining HT runs as sed. They can hit tail without crossing and using meme hammer there will hit all 7 parts of HT (8 minus legs). A slight advantage for 2h users who can hit legs, left arm and wings at the same time (not consistent), same thing for head C and wings. I just think what would mostly help the class is an acb buff in range and/or damage.
What's the origin of this mentality? So you're saying paladin should stay as sed and crash mule? #nlstory?
Warriors in general are sed mules as you already know, not just paladins. If you want an effective HT run with a warrior as an attacker, you would want SI in the party, just like night lords need SE. Otherwise it won't be that optimized. Unless you make a melee-only run + SE, which is my personal favorite. NLstory only exists because funded people tend to make top-dps classes; the best one for HT being night lord and people only think of recruiting decent ones for faster runs. Well, simply because on this version all the buffs that this class would need to be considered good dps-wise would be unfair to the other warriors. It's just how badly this class was designed in the first place. Paladins started to make more sense in later versions of the game when other jobs were buffed as well.
Bossing ability aside, they're able to take advantage of elemental damage and it's a shame they don't even get to do that against most bosses. In the above bold you said you would still prefer the other warriors over Paladin's even if more bosses started to have elemental weaknesses and in the below bold you said it's unfair if their dps is closer to other warriors, but then you mention buffing acb range+damage which is an even better buff vs adding elemental weaknesss to two or three bosses. I don't understand. I said this in another thread, because it seems that Bishop's for the next patch have gotten their end game map buffed, their Holy Shield, and their rival the mages got an attack nerf. Nightlord's will get a huge hp buff which is heavily more valuable to them than Warrior's. Nightlord's have already lost their biggest an only real weakness against bosses in where only decently funded could take advantage of hp wash, and now with this buff it will be so much easier for every NL to reach high hp counts. Being a good seduce mule isn't native to the original tanky classes anymore. Warriors have lost one of their main specialties and all they're left with is a 3 and 6 hit mob damage as their advantage.My suggestion isn't a full blown fix for the class, it's to help increase their overall usefulness in the end game. Maybe it helps a lot and maybe it doesn't, but why keep the weaker classes in a state of limbo while the better classes get these random buffs left and right? As far as being unfair to other Warrior's, that's why I suggested only certain forms or body parts of bosses have more elemental weaknesses. They can't be over powered having an attack bonus against only 60% of the boss fight, but they would still have an attack bonus over 60% of the fight as a buff. Horntail wasn't my suggestion even though I agree with it. I was thinking more elemental weaknesses for both forms of Castellan and maybe adding 1-3 for Zakum body.
You're quoting me out of context, I was simply replying back to sawako and jake. Giving toad any ele weakness and pallies would become just as strong as they are at krex. That would be a pretty good buff right there. I just think giving bosses a few ele weaknesses here and there won't be addressing the main issue with pallies which is lack of range with acb, since they need it for grinding, zak and HT. And of course, this is just my opinion!
I read it all. I wanted to add some of my ideas. I like discussions like this vs people just blowing it off. I really wouldn't mind a acb range buff since a buff is a buff and Paladin's need one, but they're already amazing at Temple of Time and grinding maps are the only places to really hit 6 monsters at once, any less and it's still a weak multi hit attack for bosses. The reason I ask for boss elemental weakness is cause that's what they're pretty bad at and they can be amazing at some bosses if they were given more elemental weakness and be balanced by still having bosses they don't get bonuses from. I wouldn't mind both buffs though.
Paladins are no match to drk or hero when it comes to boss with multi target AND mobbing at ToT. Hero and drk can one to two hit kill up to three Oblivion 4 mob consistently when reached end game gear. With the same gear, pally can only one hit kill 1 target with blast, or 2~3 hit kill up to 6. However due to the ACB slow casting animation and it's short reach, the mobbing speed or exp per hr is slower or on par at best against brandish and crusher at Oblivion maps. The meme hammer also blows at mobbing because the casting time is so long you clear faster and better off just rush + ACB at ToT. TLDR: paladin can't even mob better than the warrior counterparts. The argument of paladin doesn't deserve a buff of some sort at boss because they are "good" at mobbing is a big load of baloney sandwich assumed by people who never used paladin or never fund it properly before.
I didn't say they were better at mobbing than their brothers, I said they were amazing there since it's one of the places they can abuse their elemental advantage and 6 hit mobbing. I also used the word amazing to describe a theoretical future in where more bosses become elementally weak, but of course they still wouldn't be breaking any barriers if it did happen since they would still be weak and they would need more buffs to catch up. And I didn't say they shouldn't have that advcharge range/damage buff. I said I wouldn't mind having both of the buffs, but for bossing purposes adding elemental advantages to certain bosses or boss parts would be better than a advcharge buff.
Nah my boy. You're right about multi-target bosses, but ToT you are quite wrong. ACB reaches a total of 2100% damage on 6 mobs, while Brandish reaches 1560% with their 3. ACB's range doesn't matter when everyone Rushes mobs into a condensed spot anyway (If you hit one enemy, the range of hitting the rest increases, too), and ACB's normal attack animation isn't noticeably slower to me at all. To some extent Meme Hammer is dancing on the border of being maybe slightly faster or the same speed as if I hadn't used it during ToT training, but I use it anyway. Though for Zakum's arms, having the option of doing 200k damage to each one every 20 seconds isn't bad.
The total % dmg IMO is irrelevant when you can one hit kill ToT mob with brandish or crusher when you reach end game. You cannot one hit kill 6 mobs with ACB (assuming you get 6 mobs all the time, but typically you get 2~4 sometimes 5~6). I agree if you can always get 5+ monsters then ACB is good or on par with brandish or crusher since brandish and crusher need 2 hits to kill 6 monsters which is the same as ACB. However, if you don't have 5+ monsters, brandish and crusher will out shine ACB.
It definitely depends on your funding whether or not you can consistently 1-hit 141k hp mobs, not many out there would be able to achieve that. I think pallies are decent at obv4 due to map configuration and ele weakness of course, but anywhere else and they are easily outclassed by heroes. It is true acb's short range doesn't help while grinding, especially if you are a 1h user, but its attack animation is totally normal. I have only noticed Blast's startup animation being slower than acb's.
I think you are drifting off the message or point im trying to deliver. The one hit kill with brandish/crusher and two hit kill with acb is just an example to illustrate that paladin need some TCL or direct/indirect QoL buff. "Decent" is a relative term. In fact everything in this universe is relative. Can't say something is "decent" without giving it a reference point. Mobbing and grinding was supposed to be paladin's strong point to make up the poor or unreliable bossing DPS per original design of the game. However, what I'm trying to point out is paladin is not good with both bossing and grinding relative to most class/sub classes available in maple royals. Drk and hero are better or on par with paladin at mobbing, and better than paladin at bossing with equal funding. NL/sair/BM are better than paladin at bossing Mage are better than paladin at mobbing, and bishop can find boss parties easier than paladin. Those are just examples of the big picture im trying to paint.
I am confident that I am fairly better at Oblivion 4 training than Dark Knights and Heroes at my funding level. But I get it, there isn't really much of a gap at end-game levels of funding. It'd be nice I guess if it was addressed, but you know me, I am content where things are. 0:
