The previous guide on the effectiveness of SI has been removed For the sake of farming more Forum Li... I mean giving back to the community. Here is my attempt to fill up the void that's been left behind. There is also good news. There is more math to be done ! I am not an addict, I can quit anytime I want, I swear! I've searched for more information about Attack Speed and stumbled upon these posts: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=3217 https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-attack-speed-reference/ This information might be (partially) incorrect, neither do I have a level 200 char of each job. Please let me know if there is false information or wrong maths. The first goal for writing this guide is to do all maths with the information available. If any data has been incorrectly assumed, it'll just be a matter of changing the respective values. I am a maths guy. Not someone that makes pretty and readable guides. I'll try to improve it along the way. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- About Attack Speed: Attack Speed in this game is determined with an Attack Speed Value (ASV) with a range of [2,9] Each Job gains its respective Weapon Booster wich decreases the ASV by 2. Speed Infusion stacks with Booster for an additional -2 ASV for -4 ASV in total. However, there exists a Attack Speed Cap of 2. Therefore some Jobs will gain 0% DPS increase, such as NL's and Shads. Some other Jobs like BM will not receive a DPS increase from SI when using Hurricane, however other Skills like Inferno or Arrow Rain will benefit from SI. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some Information I am missing: I believe Axes have received an Attack Speed Buff some time ago. I am currently using the very outdated MapleRoyals Library for the ASV and am not sure how much Axes have been buffed and if this was after the last Library Update (in 2015, lmao) A lot of Pirate Skill have an Attack Speed timer and a Delay Timer listed. Since I have never played a Pirate and am not sure how to correctly work with that. I'll leave those open for now until I find someone can help me out. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you mean 2.0??? What had not been discussed by the precious post, is the increase of DPS with the combination of SI, SE and Echo. Wich all stack multiplicatively. More about that later. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Data listed as: Unbuffed - Booster - Booster + SI Weapon, Attack Speed in ms, ASV, DPS increase % from previous ASV (Unbuffed -> Booster -> Booster + SI) Warrior: Spoiler Hero/Pally - Sword - Brandish, Blast Spoiler Dragon Claymore - (6) 840 - (4) 750, +12.00% - (2) 630, +19.05% Stone Tooth/Sparta - (5) 810 - (3) 690, +17.39% - (2) 630, +9.524% Paladin - BW - Blast Spoiler Dragon Flame - (7) 900 - (5) 810, +11.11% - (3) 690, +17.39% Morning Star/Crushed skill - (6) 840 - (4) 750, +12% - (2) 630, +19.05% Dark Knight - Spear - Crusher Spoiler Dragon Faltizan/Pinaka - (7) 1140 - (5) 990, +15.15% - (3) 870, +13.79% Sky Ski - (6) 1050 - (4) 930, +12.90%- (2) 810, +14.81% Fishing Pole - (5) 990 - (3) 870, +13.79%- (2) 810, +7.407% Archer Spoiler Bowmaster - Hurricane Any - 120ms +0% Bowmaster - Strafe, Inferno, Arrow Bomb Spoiler Nisrock/DSB - (6) 810 - (4) 720, +12.50% - (2) 600, +20.00% Maple Pyrope Bow - (5) 750 - (3) 660, +13.36%- (2) 600, +10.00% Crossbowmaster - Strafe, Arrow Eruption, Iron Arrow, Pierce Spoiler Neschere/DSX - (6) 870 - (4) 720, +20.83% - (2) 630, +14.29% Maple Pyrope Crow - (5) 780 - (3) 690, +13.04% - (2) 630, +9.523% Pirates Spoiler Buccaneer - SoonTM Corsair Spoiler Corsair - Rapid Fire Any - 120ms +0% Corsair - Battleship Cannon Any - (5) 750 - (3) 690, +8.696% - (2) 660, +4.454% Corsair - Battleship Torpedo/Homing Beacon Any - (5) 900 - (3) 780, +15.38%- (2) 720, +8.333% Nightlords and Shadowers Both gain no benefit from SI due to already being at capped Attack Speed with Booster ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Further increasing DPS with SE Information on SE DPS increase from: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/how-good-is-se.92891/ NL: +53% BM: +65.7% Mage: +6% Drk: +12.4% Hero: +8.1% Pally: +3.6% Sair: +5.5% Bucc: +5.3% (demo) SE + SI Spoiler Warrior Spoiler Hero - Sword - Brandish Spoiler Dragon Claymore - (6) 840 - (4) 750, +21.07% - (2) 630, +28.69% Stone Tooth/Sparta - (5) 810 - (3) 690, +26.90% - (2) 630, +18.40% Paladin - Sword - Blast Spoiler Dragon Claymore - (6) 840 - (4) 750, +16.03% - (2) 630, +23.33% Stone Tooth/Sparta - (5) 810 - (3) 690, +21.62% - (2) 630, +13.47% Paladin - BW - Blast Spoiler Dragon Flame - (7) 900 - (5) 810, +15.11% - (3) 690, +21.62% Morning Star/Crushed skull - (6) 840 - (4) 750, +16.03% - (2) 630, +23.33% Dark Knight - Spear - Crusher Spoiler Dragon Faltizan/Pinaka - (7) 1140 - (5) 990, +25.34% - (3) 870, +27.90% Sky Ski - (6) 1050 - (4) 930, +26.90% - (2) 810, +29.05% Fishing Pole - (5) 990 - (3) 870, +27.90%- (2) 810, +20.73% Archer Spoiler Bowmaster - Hurricane Any - 120ms +65.7% Bowmaster - Strafe, Inferno, Arrow Bomb Spoiler Nisrock/DSB - (6) 810 - (4) 720, +86.41% - (2) 600, +98.84% Maple Pyrope Bow - (5) 750 - (3) 660, +88.30%- (2) 600, +82.27% Crossbowmaster - Strafe, Arrow Eruption, Iron Arrow, Pierce Spoiler Neschere/DSX - (6) 870 - (4) 720, +102.21% - (2) 630, +89.37% Maple Pyrope Crow - (5) 780 - (3) 690, +87.31% - (2) 630, +81.48% Pirates Spoiler Buccaneer - SoonTM Corsair Spoiler Corsair - Rapid Fire Any - 120ms +5.5% Corsair - Battleship Cannon Any - (5) 750 - (3) 690, +14.67% - (2) 660, +10.30% Corsair - Battleship Torpedo/Homing Beacon Any - (5) 900 - (3) 780, +21.73%- (2) 720, +14.29% Echo + SE + SI Spoiler Warrior Spoiler Hero - Sword - Brandish Spoiler Dragon Claymore - (6) 840 - (4) 750, +25.91% - (2) 630, +33.84% Stone Tooth/Sparta - (5) 810 - (3) 690, +31.98% - (2) 630, +23.13% Paladin - Sword - Blast Spoiler Dragon Claymore - (6) 840 - (4) 750, +20.67% - (2) 630, +28.27% Stone Tooth/Sparta - (5) 810 - (3) 690, +26.48% - (2) 630, +18.01% Paladin - BW - Blast Spoiler Dragon Flame - (7) 900 - (5) 810, +19.71% - (3) 690, +26.48% Morning Star/Crushed skull - (6) 840 - (4) 750, +20.67% - (2) 630, +28.27% Dark Knight - Spear - Crusher Spoiler Dragon Faltizan/Pinaka - (7) 1140 - (5) 990, +30.35% - (3) 870, +33.02% Sky Ski - (6) 1050 - (4) 930, +31.98% - (2) 810, +34.21% Fishing Pole - (5) 990 - (3) 870, +33.02%- (2) 810, +25.56% Archer Spoiler Bowmaster - Hurricane Any - 120ms +72.33% Bowmaster - Strafe, Inferno, Arrow Bomb Spoiler Nisrock/DSB - (6) 810 - (4) 720, +93.87% - (2) 600, +106.79% Maple Pyrope Bow - (5) 750 - (3) 660, +95.83%- (2) 600, +89.56% Crossbowmaster - Strafe, Arrow Eruption, Iron Arrow, Pierce Spoiler Neschere/DSX - (6) 870 - (4) 720, +108.23% - (2) 630, +96.95% Maple Pyrope Crow - (5) 780 - (3) 690, +94.81% - (2) 630, +88.74% Pirates Spoiler Buccaneer - SoonTM Corsair Spoiler Corsair - Rapid Fire Any - 120ms +9.72% Corsair - Battleship Cannon Any - (5) 750 - (3) 690, +19.26% - (2) 660, +14.71% Corsair - Battleship Torpedo/Homing Beacon Any - (5) 900 - (3) 780, +26.60%- (2) 720, +18.86%
The one caveat to this: I believe hurricane startup time is affected by SI, but not the continuous shots. This means if for whatever reason you're repositioning a lot SI might make somewhat of a difference.
This isn't true, the Hurricane startup as a fixed speed of 0.3 sec according to this site: https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-attack-speed-reference/
As I was writing this part on SE, I realised my understanding of Critical Damage in this game was incorrect. I simply believed that it was an additional multiplier that was placed somewhere in the damage formulas. But that definitly didnt reflect the maths done by several people in the past. Such as the maths I (shamelessly) copied. The tl;dr about Critical Damage is that it is not another mulitplier but simply a buff to your Skill Damage. SE adds +40% +140% Skill Damage to the skill you are using. F.E. DK's Spear Crusher deals 170% Skill Damage. SE increases that damage to 170%+40%=310% 170%+140% = 310% Damage. The tooltips of both Critical Strike and SE are incorrect. Their increase in damage is listed as 100% more than they actually do. The post I used as information did not list MM or Shads. Reason why is that they use skill that are (partially) not affected by SE. How much that relatively affect these jobs is dependent how much, and how frame perfect Players utilize these Skills. While digging further into this information I found several suggestive posts (not excluding to MapleRoyals forums) that a NL's Critical Damage is taken from their Range, wich is NOT reflective of their L7/TT Range. If this last part is true, than the claim that NL's Damage is increased by 53% is false. And the actual answer is, like always, "It depends" Edit: I have again mistakenly assumed I understood how Critical Damage supposed to work. Maths down below is right. Just done with wrong numbers. Spoiler Ignoring W.Def of the Target, a theoretical NL with a total DEX and STR of 0 would have: f(LUK)=(5*LUK+2.5*LUK)/2= 3.75*LUK ----------------- not Crit g(LUK)=(3.6*LUK+0.6*0.9*3.6*LUK)/2 =f+2.772*LUK --- yes Crit Increased DPS from Critical Strike: p= 1/2 c = 1 1-(f+g*c)*p+(f*(1-p)/f = 1- (CS DPS)/(DPS) 1-((6.522)*(1/2)+(3.75)*(1/2))/3.75 = 1-(5.136/3.75) = 0.3696 CS increases DPS by ~36.96% An increased DPS from CS to CS+SE: p = (13/20) c = 1.4 CS DPS = 5.136 1-(f+g*c)*p+(f*(1-p)/(CS DPS) = (CS+SE DPS)/(CS DPS) 1-(((3.75+1.4*2.772)*(13/20)+(3.75*(7/20))/5.136 = 6.2725/5.136 = 0.2199 That would mean that this very specific NL would have its damage increased by ~22% instead of ~53%. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yet, this doesnt reflect a NL in practice. Let's assume an end-game Nightlord would have about: LUK = 1200 DEX = 150 STR = 50 that would change our g(LUK) to g(LUK, DEX, STR). Since the damage yield of DEX and STR are equal, we can sum them up as Secondary Stats (S) to simplify g to g(LUK, S). We can further simply to LUK = 6/7 S = DEX + STR = 1/7 p = 1/2 c = 1 g(L,S) = (((3.6*(6/7)+(1/7))+((3.6*0.9*0.6*(6/7)+(1/7)/2))) g(L,S) = ((108/35)+(1/7))+(2916/1750+1/7) = 8816/3500 = 2.5189 1-(f+g*c)*p+(f*(1-p)/f CS: 1-(((3.75+2.5189*1)*(1/2)+(3.75*(1/2)))/3.75 = 1 - 5.1969/3.75= 0.3858 = 1 - (CS DPS)/(DPS) CS increases average DPS by ~35.58% CS + SE: p = 13/20 c = 1.4 CS DPS = 5.1969 1-(f+g*c)*p+(f*(1-p)/(CS DPS) 1-(((3.75+2.5189*1.4)*(13/20)+(3.75*(7/20)))/5.1969 = 1 - 7.3547/5.1969 = 0.4152 1 - (SE+CS/CS) = 0.4152 SE Increases for this specific NL's DPS by ~41.52% instead of ~53% Additionally, all of this is assumed fighting 0 w.def targets. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Conclusion It's quite somewhat more complicated than just giving you the values of % DPS increase for NL's. Since it just simply depends. And, if my suspection is true, the real values are actually very far off what has been assumed to be correct all this time. That would also mean I need to revist my previous guide on finding how much Stats yield the same DPS increase as 1. W.Atk does. Since it means that DEX and STR actually do increase L7 and TT DPS. I might have made some mistakes and typo's during writing all of this. But I guess you get the point. I do maths, not physics. I want truth, not approximations. (looking at you 5 prim stat = 1 atk....) Before I venture further off into this Critical Strike maths-party. I need some more conclusive evidence that what I am trying to say is actually correct. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: Simplified Formulas to calculate (CS DPS) and (CS+SE DPS) CS DPS = (10.727*LUK+(STR+DEX))/(7.5*LUK) (CS+SE DPS)/(CS DPS) = (((125.4505*LUK^2 + 18.2 * (STR+DEX))/(10.272*LUK + (STR+DEX)))*(0.375) or ((112.911*LUK + 13*(STR+DEX))/(CS DPS))*0.05
Any NLs want to volunteer doing a krex 2nd eye solo with and without SE, and posting your results (and stats) here?
I am also not sure about the exact workings of defense. Especially where to place it in the damage formulas. All I've got so far is: MAX damage = (MAX before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.5 MIN damage = (MIN before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.6 where D is (monster level - player level) if (monster level) > (player level), and 0 otherwise. aka D = 0 for if i'd be fighting krex I would need to know if the formula for Skill Damage is either Dmg(output)=Dmg(input)*Skill-Def or Dmg(output)=(Dmg(input)-Def)*Skill It would make a massive difference and I definitly need to know this first for sure
Since u mention about L7/TT can tell when avenger beat TT? Saw the skill description show that total damage to multi mobs from avenger is way over than TT (realized this when i do LHC first quest on nl). Mayb NL main can answer this if u do LHC frequently. Just check it Max tt do 150% x 3 Max avenger do 180% x 6 mobs It just idk the speed of avenger (its definitely much slower than TT)
Spoiler Lucky Seven/Triple Throw/Drain/Shadow Meso/Normal Attack Faster (2): 600ms (-210ms) Faster (3): 660ms (-150ms) Fast (4): 720ms (-90ms) Fast (5): 750ms (-60ms) Normal (6): 810ms Avenger Faster (2): 630ms (-210ms) Faster (3): 690ms (-150ms) Fast (4): 750ms (-90ms) Fast (5): 810ms (-30ms) Normal (6): 840ms L7/TT at (2) ASV = 600ms Avenger at (2) ASV = 630 Making L7/TT 63/60=(1/30) faster than L7/TT Additionally they are using different damage formula's. So again, it depends on everything. Disregarding Crit, because too much maths for something thats supposed to be discussing effectiveness of SI (please let the questions coming. Somewhere in the future I want to make a full MapleMathematics Guide on everything there is to math). Allthough, if my last post about Critical Damage is indeed correct. It does favour Avenger quite significantly. Including Shadow Partner: Avg DPS L7/TT = 1.5*(3.75*LUK*3 + 3.75*LUK*3/2) = 1.5*16.875*LUK = 25.3125*LUK Avg DPS Avenger = 1.8*((2.772*LUK+(S)*[1,6])+(2.772*LUK+(STR+DEX)*[1,6])/2)= [1,6]*(7.4844*LUK+2.7*(STR+DEX)) (31/30)*25.3125*LUK = [1,6]*((7.4844*LUK+2.7*(S)) vs 3 Targets (31/30)*25.3125*LUK => 22.4532*LUK+8.1*(S) TT > Avenger[3] if 3.70305*LUK > 8.1*(STR+DEX) vs 4 Targets 26.15625*LUK < (29.9376*LUK+10.8*(S) ---------------------------------------------------- From the previous example NL with 50/150/4/1200 stats: 3.70305*1200 > 8.1*(150+50) TT if 3 or less mobs Avenger if 4 or more mobs --------------------------------------------------- 3.70305*LUK = 1620 LUK = 437.47 A NL with 50/150/4/437 would be dealing more damage vs 3 mobs with Avenger than TT. Allthough these values are not very practical for a 4rth job NL. If the last part about Crit Damage is true. These values would be more in favour of Avenger since the increase of DPS of Avenger is greater than that of TT/L7 and there might be a handful of NL's around that would actually be better off using Avenger vs 3 mobs instead of TT. --------------------------------------------------- Edit #69420 Without doing the maths I suspect Echo would actually fuck up more shit than just a 1.04 damage multiplier. Additionally since NL's are a class that deals a lot of relative low damage hits very fast. They are relatively much more affected by W.Def than most other Jobs are. -------------------------------------------------- Edit #4819136400 Hold up. If it is indeed true to Critical Damage takes it additional damage from the range, instead of being an increase of Skill Damage, with a function as: Range(dmg)*(Skill)+Range(dmg)*(Crit) This would also imply the increase of DPS of Echo while having SE is not simply a 1.04 multiplier. It should be: Range(dmg)*Skill*1.04+Range(dmg)*(Crit)*1.04 Gaining exponential value of Echo while on SE (or Crit in general)
Regarding SE the way it works is that in increases your damage by a further 100% on top of the skill bonus. For example when using TT with no SE you'd crit 250% damage (150+100). With SE you'd crit 390% (250+100+40). The average damage without se is 200% per hit while with SE it's 306%, an increase of 53% more DPS. For that reason Se is not effective for high damage % skills, for example when it's used on blast it will just go from 580% to 720%. Also for mages they just get a flat +40% damage boost without the extra 100%
I just started to realise the same thing while checking the maths of https://royals.ms/forum/threads/how-good-is-se.92891/ My god. I need to redo some more maths I always thought Assassin CS did 250% damage as well. But it's actually 200% btw ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually did some napkin-math with CS taking damage from range and not TT for NL's (CS+SE)/(CS) = (11.75112*LUK+2.21*(STR+DEX))/(8.377*LUK+(STR+DEX)) If we'd assume STR+DEX to be 0. The DPS from SE would be ~40.28% Again from the assumed endgame NL with 50/150/4/1200 Stats (11.7511*6/7+2.21*1/7)/(8.377*6/7+1/7) = 1.4185 Gaining +41.85% increased DPS from SE.
How about Hurricane vs Rain arrow vs Inferno (on fire weak movs like bears ofc) This one might be more conplicated Ninja ambush The skill give 100% damage on 6 mobs for 12 sec at max Nb +TT might beat TT alone when there are multi mobs When lhc was out ppl complain about bm and nl not good. Just want to know the op damage of these 2 jobs can catch up with others or how far they are left behind
