Greetings Royallers, Wulin Yaoseng (commonly referred to as "Shao" or "Shaolin") was introduced in Update 54, and has since then become a favourite among our players. Originally intended as a unique challenge with its short timer and a high EXP reward, the plan to reward cooperation between several players working together to defeat this formidable opponent has not exactly panned out as expected. What was meant to require a party of attackers has become an excessively easy and quick way of gaining a big chunk of EXP without much investment. The Staff is interested in revisiting this Master of the Martial Arts, and see if he can be reworked into something a little more involving and social. We have attached a poll in which you can vote for your favourite option. You are also invited to discuss your feelings or ideas in the comments below. Note: The purpose of the thread is not to serve as a direct-democracy vote, but rather to gauge the community's feelings on the topic, and to hopefully generate some interesting discussion. The Staff reserves the right to balance the game in whatever way it ultimately deems most beneficial. With that being said, we do take your input into careful consideration, and are always very interested in hearing your thoughts. Happy Mapling! - The MapleRoyals Staff
I think that the exp you get from it is good but I think shortening the timer would make it more party friendly instead of solo/duo with mules!
If you shorten the timer, more players will invest in attack pots or will start duo/trio which is not a bad idea. Decreasing the exp will take off the experience of doing shao, which is best exp in game for my opinion.
I think it would be positive to "force" bigger parties to attend rather than a strong duo combo with mules.
I agree 100%. People are more likely to use apples instead of stoppers if anything. Not sure if it would necessarily increase trio parties since finding duo shao partners is already a struggle for some
As mentioned above, shortening the timer will only result in the usage of stronger pots with no real impact on its social involvement. Adjusting the HP/EXP ratio to match other raid bosses sounds most fair and optimal. We need to reduce the brain dead fat-exp bosses and introduce challenging ones with substantial rewards.
Shao is an extremely strong source of EXP so I see the argument of wanting to nerf him. That being said, I do think having a short boss that gives a lot of exp is a super solid incentive for more casual players to log in and play every day. It can be daunting to muster up the motivation to do a full Horntail run but I can easily convince my friends to log in for a quick Shao. I voted to change nothing about him, but if he is to be nerfed, I would much rather see an increase in HP or an increase in HP + EXP rather than just flat reducing the EXP, otherwise high level players don't have any short dailies that they can feel good about.
Making it harder to kill isn't going to reduce the amount of mules, it just increases the amount of NLs.
Imo Shao exp:hp ratio is definitely overtuned. I bet the ratio is like 2x or more of any other boss? It'd be cool if maybe the HP was increased to encourage Trio Shao. Could encourage people to do a daily gauntlet of bosses like: 1. Trio Shao 2. Trio Toad 3. Trio Krex 4. Trio Zak (whileas HT and CWKPQ typically require 4 or more) The only counterargument is that the existence of Shao currently feels kinda like a gift to the server for free exp lol so if you remove the gift people might be upset though. To mitigate this downside it should only be nerfed slightly, albiet rather changed. So, I voted for +HP and +EXP but nerf the exp:hp ratio a bit.
A lot of voters on not changing anything, which is ok. I feel like it's fine as it is too and we shouldn't fix something that's not broken. BUT! by increasing max HP and EXP, there becomes a threshold for which higher level players can benefit more from shao by still possibly being able to duo it for added exp, and lower-level parties can trio/quad and still get a greater bonus gain in exp. I feel like a lot of lower-level people aren't invited to shao due to the strong urge to duo, instead of teaming together with others to trio/quad. I'm imagining a scenario where I can help my lower level friends and guildies defeat shao in time with a trio/quad and get a great bonus to exp. I feel like it would make it more rewarding to complete in a team. But that's all left to people's opinion on whether they like solo play or team play.
I personally think that nothing needs to be changed. Yes, it's a boss where most people would prefer to duo and bring mules (mostly HS mules) but there are also plenty of lower level players or players who do less damage, who choose to go in larger parties as they are aware of their lack of damage. However, if I were to even think of something that I would change about it, it'll be to increase the level required to leech it because realistically, not many level 145 people (specifically the unfunded players) could go in parties of duo, trio or even quad to kill this boss. I just feel that setting a minimum level of 145 gives unrealistic expectations to people who do not expect the boss to be so tough and end up failing the run. I'm placing myself in the shoes of a new, uninformed player who JUST got to level 145 and think "Oh look, I can go for a new boss now. I'm sure it's about the same difficulty as Zakum and/or Krex, since it's only 10 levels above the required level to go for those bosses", then find out that it's really not the case Everything else seems fair, the HP:EXP ratio seems fine to me and the time limit is perfect as 10 minutes is the exact duration of 1 onyx apple, hence not wasting any damage boost that people gain from using an apple. I think it's pretty much a standard now, to use 1 apple for every Shao run and that's a very small price to pay for the EXP that you get, more so in just 10 minutes.
The problem for me at the moment: I cannot shao anymore cause nobody wants to go with a real bishop, instead, everyone demands hs MULES. Its impossible for me to find a trio with me, some other attacker and a bishop - for instance. Hs mule is required. I dont see any chance, how this could be changed. It just slowly goes towards shao solo, so at least, maybe increasing the HP would help - so that a trio pays off more? Or even quad? One can dream ... But then again it still would be trio with HS mule. But at least the chance is higher to find ppl with a mule ... This whole mule thing destroys so many aspects of the game, such as shao for instance. sadly enough ... I though of this: Make shao cast a spell, that decreases your accuracy (and one that stuns you more often), so that maybe there is at least a small need for an active bs? Of course one could use acp, but if you make shao cast like every 2 sec, a real bs would be a true alternative - especially when hsh is useful as well. Otherwise I would leave it like it is. Cause even that I cannot enjoy this content anymore (saaaaad ) due to the duo meta at the moment, it would be a shame to take away such a quick and exciting bossing experience from the players.
Shao doesn't really feel like a large party boss to me, unlike Tokyo Neo's bosses whos potential is way higher to be incorporated in your daily boss routine with a larger scale party. I feel like if any steps should be taken to encourage party play is some adjustment to the Tokyo Neo bosses instead of Shao!
I think you need to choose the audience you want to promote Shao to. When content overlaps, the non optimal content is always going to get ignored. You should consider what progression system you're aiming for. For exp bosses, it might commonly be zak/krex -> ht -> auf. Where do you want Shao to exist in that progression (on this note, 120-135 sucks for new players who can't buy leech)? If the exp is too problematic, unique drops from bosses ensure that they have a niche, though this also contributes to power creep and can make other items obsolete. Shao is in a weird place where it is massively more rewarding to people duoing or soloing, and can be quite difficult for new players to do. New players doing shao often find the time limit requires 3 - 4 attackers, 12k hp requirement, as well as requiring a way to split clones. It seems from the OP that you'd like this to be accessible to new players still, so these are the changes I'd consider: The 12k flame attack could be made dodgeable by jumping to be more accessible to new players. You could attempt to smooth exp differences between solo/duo and trio/quad runs by: introducing some map bonus exp based on current party size at time of kill / exp gain. spawning additional clones per attacker that has done a certain amount of damage prior to Shao spawning clones (to prevent just bringing in mules to spawn clones). This would involve rebalancing the hp / exp of the clones of course. Side note: I feel that Shao heavily devalues the exp gain from HT/Auf because it is so easy for old players.
Whatever kind of nerf please make it impossible to kill with 4 or less attackers with average DPS, that is, only 1 mule allowed. Exp per player gains can be either slightly nerfed or just not because shao suppose to be fast exp content. Maple should be party game, not multiclients and solo/farm, or it is nothing different from the ruined version aka the official.
I think looking at shao is a step in the wrong direction, because shao is in a good enough state and most people won't struggle running it (with some exceptions). Why not look at bosses that are completely whack and could use some major changes, for exmaple - Nibergen and Dunas V2 ,and make them actually worth running? Shao is alright atm, and even tho i can think about some ways to kinda change it, its not the change Royals desperately needs atm imo.
