Class/Skill Hero's Will 5+ focus thread

this thread will solely focus on the prospect of hero's will advancing beyond level 5. in this thread, i initially proposed the concept. the skill itself is a perfect, universal extant structure for many potential relative functions, concerning future content, as well as current, that every character can reap the benefits of since all classes can unlock and invest in it if they wish

before i personally suggest any of these potential perks, I'd like to hear from the community:

• how do you feel about this idea?
• how would you build this skill out?
• what would the advanced benefits and drawbacks be?
• where or how would the new skill book, or books, be obtained?
• what future (and current) content do you see it dovetailing into?
• how would you gate it, if at all, from retroactively making current content trivialized/easier?
• would you possibly change the current levels of 1-5 to attenuate/balance into the levels above 5? or keep the greater adv skill benefits gated solely after passing the second SB

entertain the prospect of this idea any way you like. I think this concept has lots of potential packed in it, and i believe it would do a lot of good to liven up late/end game in many fun ways, in ways I'd love to discuss.

[if you'd like to read my personal ideas on the possibility of advancing HW above 5, please take a peek at the thread linked above, or my condensed ideas behind this spoiler]

Spoiler

Hero's Will (10)
Requires HW lvl5.

• Lvl6-10: adds a passive chance to resist Seduce. TBD resist %. 5% chance is a 1/20 possibility, (duh), etc.

Drops from highest level bosses. Auf, Von Leon, PB, TBD newer bosses, or perhaps a rare drop from less commonly run current bosses (the boss, toad)
Why: it provides a fresh economic boom and new drop to the current bossing meta (new drops are sorely needed) akin to MW20: it's a new common class SB, so all classes would desire it, provides a great defensive tech if gained and invested in (it could also be HW20, doesn't necessarily need to max at 10). note: HW10 is likely the highest the skill should max, as its been pointed out that some classes sp demands couldn't afford HW above 10

HW10~ could be a great loot and additional min/max skill

Here is some additional sauce for HW and this suggestion:

Besides being a new and energizing drop and buff for people that want to be extra geared for bossing, Hero's Will, IMO, could still be a bit improved:

• Vanilla HW being able to will out of any abnormal condition would be really nice, stun, slow, weakness, blind, potion lock, etc. Sometimes, especially for shads, mages, ppl that need hb or other chars that are in danger if they are dispelled, or if you simply don't have ACP (ACP should cost a lot more mesos IMO, I am unashamed to suggest this), would find this to be very helpful, and it doesn't take away from will's primary use, it just gives it more utility.
• Vanilla HW could possibly also begin the sed resist stats, where HW10 would provide you with the most resistance, but no additional perks to CD or MP
• But speaking of that, it also could. A shorter HW CD, and possibly lower MP cost from higher level will, locked behind a rare and expensive SB, could be very desirable to some
• Being able to use HW while in darksight?
• Small resistance to all abnormal stats?
• Useful in some way for future boss afflictions, needing a higher level of will to cure them? (Such as potion lock, total darkness, an undispellable zombie or a dangerous % based venom status that can't be cured and will eventually kill you over time (like toxic in Pokemon. equally dangerous for washed or dirty chars alike), etc
• Or 6+ levels in will has a higher CD and mp cost in a personal choice trade off for your particular character and HW10s possible benefits above 5
• Desirable to archers/sairs, who have no inherent defensive/avoid skills (who need to wash), as well as very proactive bishops, and of course mules (yes I suggested something helpful to mules)
• The RNG of it (sed missing you) provides a more fun engagement in bossing, IMO
• Finally, as suggested in this thread, the possiblity of seduce being a more equal opportunity threat to all despite your HP/avoid, like 1/1 is, makes sed missing you especially desirable
• I'd estimate this SB starting at about the average price of a ws/cs, and hovering around there, with it possibly going up quite a bit higher depending on the meta
• HW above level 5 (6+), will alert you if a DR is about to be cast/being cast at a chance. Level 10 will proc alerts 100% of the time (something like a exclamation mark and screen shake, player side, within 1 second before DR is cast, or a chatlog alert when the animation starts). Often bosses that cast this have easy to miss or ignore cues and can be lost in attack animations, damage digits, or lag. Warning will cost MP. Just a fun extra perk idea

A fun and very simple, very easy to dev concept, that adds lots of possible dimensions to bossing. We can assume Von Leon won't be dropping his weapons, seeing as how they are superficial NX, and the end game gear market is already super locked in, and also awaiting a market crash from PB and it's timeless gear someday (I'm guessing VL will introduce the shoulder pad eq finally. crystal ball says 2 attack, 250 HP, with HP scrolls available somewhere, probably totem exchange).
This SB and idea could breathe a bit of life into end game gameplay, market, and bossing.

***

[on animations:]
I was thinking if it mixed the HW cast animation, the power guard sarcophagus/stone maiden, but reskinned to be golden like 4th job skills (or iron will, or iron body), or maybe a MISS/RESIST but also colored gold instead of purple

***

i think a 70% (or 40/50%) skillbook for an upgraded HW is staring the meta right in the face and serves a perfect vehicle for limitless future content, as well as existing content, and because of that, serves as a stepping stone, or advantage (or both) for future end game content such as von leon or PB.

but on just the topic of "HW10", I've given lots of conceptual feedback here, because it could be very open ended, depending on what changes are ahead. and while i think HW10 being more optional than necessary is the better option for everyone (less gatekeeping, less required spending/gambling, play as you wish), it perhaps being necessary very late is also a good thing for the economy, and an extra individual quest of preparedness to face VL/PB/+more (plus current bosses for extra min/max benefits).

either which way, it has ripe potential to enrich end game content, market, and fun in bossing. im going to try and make these ideas more black and white and fully fledge them to make them seem more realistic to more seriously consider it, as i know that @Kenny is actually considering this possible skill extension now.

first though, how would this SB be acquired?
i think because of the way auf is ran, auf is not a great candidate to drop it. the auf helm and helm scrolls, the scroll scraps, already make it an obsessively farmed boss (especially solo) if HW10 also dropped there, it would be too big of a boost to the small/solo player's already huge wallets, and have less of an economic impact.

i think right now VL has the best fit and prospects to drop HW10 (as well as some shoulderpads with HP/MP, tokens, totems, and items to build reverse/timeless gear, but anyway): he's before PB, and he requires full, active parties to even get to, and i think this requirement alone is the perfect set up for HW10 as a drop there. invested, active individuals working together.
or, a much less ran, but difficult bosses such as toad, or The Boss (the boss being my choice between the two since its very rarely ran compared to toad and drops almost nothing good. dunas2 is also a pretty good option considering nothing wild drops from her, but she's also not severely difficult. also grampa balrog, if we ever see him one day (i pray )
also I'd be fine with the HW10 SB being 40/50% rate instead of 70%, like the second SB rate usually is (or 60, etc), just to heighten the impact of it's late game effects, and give it staying power in the economy.

what Hero's Will 10 can offer
first ill do a quick bullet run down of the additional perks it could provide or expand on, and then flesh out the major concepts as examples, level by level, to visualize them. if anyone has HW10 suggestions/expansions, I'd also love to hear them.
as brought up by Pablo (@GunzGaming), five extra SP is the max SP they could crunch in their paladin build. this is important to keep in mind, as @Kenny is considering HW20, a much bigger additional investment. to that i say, HW is already a fairly difficult to acquire skill in general (mini-pianu$, karta quest, eurek/griffey hunting) and 5 sp is two full levels. 10 is 4 full levels worth of 4th job SP (10/12 SP). because of its requirements, late SP investment, and possibility of it dropping from later, more difficult bosses, i think HW10 is more than enough to cap it at (but this is a separate discussion from this particular post--but be my guest and talk aboit it).
lets run down what it could do now:

• lvl6-10 could offer less CD to cast HW, but more MP cost
• lvl6-10 could offer higher CD but NO MP (at 10, max) to cast HW
• 6-10 could provide a passive chance to resist/ignore/miss seduce (this is a refreshing RNG that would make sed rounds exciting if it procs. i think 9-10% at max would be great
• ability to will out of new/future statuses such as: potion lock/skill-lock/zombie/blackout/reverse control/mana-poison/etc
• 6-10 provides a passive, small resist chance to common statuses (~9% at max?)
• 6-10 will passively immediately alert you when Damage Reflect is cast at a %, up to 100% at max. an alert on screen, in chatlog, or an exclamation mark above your char that will always appear on top of all other animations, as well as a sfx
• 6+ can let thieves Will out of seduce while in darksight. passive bonus
• 6+ can cure any normal status condition as well as sed/etc. a nice utility for more casual situations
• 6-10 provides some passive 1/1 attack resistance. (example HW6 will leave you at 10/10 instead of 1/1, HW10 would leave you with 50/50)

you can imagine what most of these suggestions would look like on the skill screen, but I'll flesh some out to make them seem more realistic and viable.

[example: on the suggestions of HW10 offering higher cd but no mp cost, and sed resist (feel free to play with these suggestions / numbers):]

hero's will 5:
Cures you from being Seduced. The cooldown decreases as the skill level increases.
Level 5: MP Cost: 30, Cooldown: 360 sec

hero's will 6:
Cures you from being Seduced. The cooldown now increases as the skill level increases, but MP cost lowers. A passive chance to entirely resist seduce now applies.
Level 6: MP Cost: 25, Cooldown: 375 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 2%
Level 7: MP Cost: 20, Cooldown: 390 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 4%
Level 8: MP Cost: 15, Cooldown: 405 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 6%
Level 9: MP Cost: 8, Cooldown: 430 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 8%
Level 10: MP Cost: 0, Cooldown: 445 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 9%

etc~
plug in any new status cures/resist, passives, values, and suddenly you have a very late game refreshing meta skill that enlivens some parts of the game, and new ones, rewards those who get it, but doesn't necessarily require it, especially on some classes. while other classes, such as bishop or ranged characters, may want it.
that's why the new status cure is a bit of a slippery slope (as it would eventually be a requirement), but, i still think this a great built-in skill that can still add progression to the game, even this far out in the future, which is a really, really good thing. adding any dimension to this old 2D game, especially end game, would be quite effervescent imho~

obviously these new effects would only be packed into the new 6+ levels.

 

bumping this because i would love to hear other's thoughts on it. i still believe this is an excellent concept with nothing but potential, and your feedback is invaluable. I'm sure there's plenty of amazing pragmatic, end-game meta ideas out there for this advanced skill's form and function, as well as current and retro utility

 

Could be interesting if you made it like some ultimate dispel that can cure all status effects (including stun, sed, zombify, seal etc) but with the same cooldown (with the extra levels each adding more resistances)

Kinda like an emergency button.

 

speaking of vanilla HW solely, ive always thought it should also be able to cure basic status effects too. would be nice for casual or emergency situations, and vanilla should also definitely be able to be cast in DS, imho

 

I have seen this on an older server years ago, it honestly worked wonders