AP/SP Resets were clearly put into the game so that no player would have to worry about permanently ruining or invalidating their account. People care a lot about time investment and progression. Even in other grindy MMOs like Old School RuneScape, where all endgame accounts are equal besides equipable and always-obtainable gear, people are so worried about progression and time investment that they begin to shift their worry towards efficient progression. Nexon recognized this intense player-driving worry about time investment and progression, and created AP/SP Resets so that no player would ever have to worry about unknowingly or mistakenly limiting their account's potential ("ruining" it). Due to their nature they locked their solution behind a paywall instead of allowing players to earn it through free means, but their solution, as it was designed, allowed for an unintended and abusable quirk: Washing. Washing is antimatter to a player's idea of character progression in MapleRoyals. It's confusing for so many reasons: 1. Washing is complicated. A new player can wash incorrectly. You have to read a guide to wash. 2. Washing wasn't really part of a nostalgic Maple experience. It may have existed, but because it was behind a paywall it was largely inaccessible and unknown. 3. Washing is antithetical to the supposed purpose of the items you use to wash. You're supposed to use an AP/SP Reset if you regret how you allocate your points, but with washing the regret comes from NOT using the resets at all. 4. You want to wash to make your account stronger, but the most efficient ways to wash require you hamper your account progression by investing into INT, either base INT or equips. 5. Washing effects the in-game economy by driving up demand for items that would otherwise hold no or less value 6. Washing timegates progression, meaning that if you don't pay for a zhelm by lvl 50 etc. you're wasting more money in the long run and hampering your character in the short and long term 7. Washing confuses balance that should come with HP buffs and equips. I like the idea of stat quests and equips, I like them so much I think washing should be removed entirely in favor of them. I understand that it's been talked about to dead, and that there are a lot of reasons to not remove washing, but I don't know of any that keep the new player experience in mind. They all mostly boil down to "It would be too hard/jarring/unfair", which is totally acceptable from a technical perspective, I don't know how to make a custom source code or run a server, but this mechanic really does suck (to me). It's really, really off putting. I'm positive that there at least 1000 people that were looking for nostalgic MapleStory, found that this server is one of the only ones that really offers something close to that, were willing to invest enough time to get at least 1 character to 4th job, but ran away once they realized washing is a thing and their investment in their character was unknowingly quite inefficient and not as fruitful as they thought it would be. I was one of those people. You can take this all with a grain of salt because I'm very casual and have never gotten very far in Maplestory. But I also play Old School RuneScape casually and have gotten farther in that game than I ever would have as a kid. The further I get, the more open I am to taking on challenges I never would have, like bossing and PvP, and I learn to love the game in ways that were unavailable to even my kid self. The game isn't at all the exact same as it was when I used to play it, but it's not called "2007 RuneScape", it's OLDSCHOOL RuneScape. I look over at not Maple07 but MapleROYALS and can't help but feel like maybe I would view it the same way if it weren't for something as major as HP washing shaping the face of progression in this server. I know it's different, since Royals is unofficial... but a man can dream! A man... can dream.
half-joking suggestion: create an untradeable ring that provides +999 INT and can be equipped by all classes except beginners and mages, and have the 1st job instructor hand it to you after your advancement
I think people are heavily focused on perfection, and while I am similar to some extent, I have also decided to not be a perfectionist in every single regard on every single character I have (because it would cost 100+ billion mesos and I can't be bothered). For example, my current cape is 14 attack, my gloves 15 attack. But my marksman's weapon is a Night Raven's Eye. Sure, it requires a decent amount of STR and the attack is not as high as Dragon Shiner, but it gives a good amount of HP and it looks cool. Also the attack speed is faster which is a bonus. Anyway, point being, it's fine to pick something with more HP sometime. It's also fine to pick something you think look cool on your character also. The perfection thing goes for HP also. When we talk about washing, I think many people want to go very high. Perhaps even max HP. But for most bosses, you will be fine with 12-15k. Pet HP scrolls, Dojo belt, medal (like collector medal), event rings, certain face equips and HP quests can help you reach that goal with minimum washing. I put no points in INT what so ever on my Marksman. I only invested in some equipment with decent attack and good HP combo, did HP quests and used my mage's INT gear while leveling up sometime for some mild washing and my HP recently got above 15k. HP washing makes it easier and maybe less time consuming, but there are other options
HP-Washing is here to stay. What is the plan for all those 20k hp NL/BM's? Delete them? I do definitly agree that the game design of: "Let's make this class have 6k hp at max level and this mid-game boss deal 10k damage.' Is not really great, but it's what we have been playing with and will probably never change by a significant amount. Also most new content is being designed with not having these insane HP-requirements in mind. Yes HP-Washing impacts the market. At least INT scrolls and Washing gear holds any value compared to the other 99% of items in this game. Would it be great if players would be rewarded more for playing the game as intended instead of just dumping 2-3b on leech. Yes, that would be great. Could there be done a better job of comunicating options players have? Sure, make another guide on the forum that explains in detail all that people need to know and watch how appearently nobody reads them. As seen in all other "old school' MMO's, osrs, WoW Classic and this private server, the main difference is that we are not 10 years old anymore. People have unlimited acces to the internet, social media and youtube guides excist. We are all just much better at playing games. We can all do elementary school arithmetic now. People just min-max the fuck out of these games as they do with any other game. If you don't want to do that, than just don't do that. I see several posts per week that are like: "Hey I am new to the server and I want to make a 20k HP NL, how much INT do I need?" "How about you play the game first" At the moment your HP is really going to matter you are rich enough to dumb several bilion meso on a new character and don't give fuck about it. It really only takes 1 google seach to find all information you need. And if you can think of ways to make about 6-8b on a 200 INT NL you can also do 1 more google search to find out that there are other ways to gain HP and you don't have to Hp-Wash.
I think its fine to have an opinion but to call it unethical is a stretch. Yes, washing hurts the new player experience, but I would not call it a morally incorrect or a borderline torturous experience. It’s a game, if its that painful or that draining for you, I will have to kindly suggest to stop, as I wouldn’t want that on anyone. Washing is hard: there are guides. Games will have learning curves. We all made incorrect skill point choices when we were kids too most likely. You live you learn. Washing paywall/not nostalgic. NX is free here. It’s literally illegal to spend irl money for progression. Timegate. Yes the game is timegated. Like most MMOs, there are timegates that forces players to invest time/resources in order to reach certain progression points. We need these to get players to stay on longer and strengthen our community rather than people progress too fast and quit. This point is kind of weak, as it is pretty general since I am not a game balancer or developer. This is not a 500x rate server, it is a vanilla pre bb server, with nostalgia premise but Royals does not try to be a carbon copy of old MS. Its not meant to hit you with an exact nostalgic experience of your 2007 gametime, it has its own meta and economy. To be frank, if old MS live server had multi clienting and free nx, I imagine it would be pretty similar to our situation now Washing dictates a large part of our economy. You wouldnt believe how fucked our economy relies on APRs, people buying leech, and washing gears. I think this is the main reason I have 0 faith in the community/staff doing major changes in washing. It is a good direction our server is taking pushing out options to get more HP without tanking our economy. The daily repeatable HP quest and one time HP Quest was a great addition in my opinion. The key factor being it did not at all destabilize our market but helps you reach HP goals outside of traditional washing
Here are some solutions I have in mind. And I've said them before in other threads so pretty much copy-pasta, and like a bunch of other people said the same things over and over. Revamp Tokens of teamwork rewards: Include HP/MP gain, more cosmetics, untradeable scrolls/equips, potions. Raise the # of runs cap from 3 PQs to 5 PQs. Buff other PQs rewards: R&Jpq, PPQ, OPQ, KPQ have obsolete untradeable equips rewards. Please give them the same treatment as LPQ/EPQ with actual competitive endgame untradeables as a stepping stone. Include ALL PQs in tokens of teamwork: GPQ, Dojo, Etc. Change CPQ to give no exp for killing mobs: CPQ is toxic and doesn't promote teamwork and friendships IMO, and it's just more leech spots. Promote other PQs. This will probably kill CPQ, oh well. Good riddance. Reward wins only, let it be actually competitive by its design and not just a mob farm. Boss Questline rewards: Upon the first completion of any boss run/Questline, give an HP/MP reward from the quest. Make town Questlines and give HP/MP rewards upon completion of the whole story. (e.g. Ariant questline, Magatia, KFT, etc.) I think this will make washing truly optional. You can play the game as intended, and get HP. Or make a bishop>wash>Boss. It will also make PQs much more lively, as those who have not washed will continue to run PQs for HP, and other rewards.
The problem I feel that it’s not about the hp washing. It’s about the multi client mule that is in bosses. A 6 man ht with 3 man and 3 buff. But people always tell me, you want play you play. You don’t want play you go holland let people screw. A lemon is a lemon. You can’t be suggesting a lemon to be like orange. And I don’t get why are y’all spending so much time commenting on something it won’t turn back round? Can unwash the hp ah? I think y’all eat too much.
If you hate CPQ, then just be straight up with it. What you're suggesting is just terrible. CPQ is a teamwork training area and does a good job getting people together to grind for levels, making buddies, and even finding guilds. Why would you want to destroy it so that people resort to solo grind (making people less likely to meet each other) or buying low level leech?
Every experienced player was once a new player when started on this server. I didn’t start off well and i struggled like hell but eventually, day by day i found myself appreciating the game. Try to look at the pros more than the cons and see from a different viewpoint. I wouldn’t say the server is tip top perfect but least it’s playable for an old school version, at least the team are taking in feedback and try to make any reasonable adjustment that wouldn’t ruined past effort or major disruption. There’s constant improvement and adjustment made such as hp quest, content adjusted for old school version. All these required effort and time, thus simply saying HP washing is hurting player base is somewhat pointless. I’m not part of the staff and i don’t have friends that’s one of the staff hence i am not speaking for them, this game is free to play except for cosmetic dress up therefore they doesn’t earn a single cent from running the server…yet they tried to listen to the community and perform what they could. End of the day just continue playing my friend, you are just at the tip of the iceberg
You can do HP quest on repeat until I believe 9k HP. You do not need to wash to make this game playable. Washing is truly optional at the moment. Whether or not you think HP quest sucks, that's a different conversation. You realistically only need like 9k HP to clear most end game content, HT and LHC, to get to 200 (Krex, Zak, CWK, etc.). CPQ is the least leech-promoting PQ imo. You need to actively kill to get on most parties or pay mesos, it can even help newer players make a few extra mesos. I think you were around before CPQ was fixed. LPQ was awful. You would have to result in R> a few washers, people who legit couldn't clear shit, it was a pretty bad experience i recall, and you were so reliant on having a 6 man party you occasionally needed to let these deadweights come into your party for free, and then one would dc in before room 3 and have to quit. I personally think PPQ is the most boring PQ in the game and such a huge level range. They brought back Romeo and Juliet but I would imagine nobody does it. Maybe give a better clear reward for OPQ/R&J
Lpq/opq > cpq Or even party grinding. Which is SO FAST to level up. Its nuts. You can do those things in lpq and cpq also. Allow me to go even further. Cpq is only exp, and allows people ppl to leech/sell leech. Which is why this thread was made... Lpq/opq gives exp, teamwork, problem solving, communication, and an item reward. Cpq is just 10 minutes of wacking a rombot and then you leave. Dont try to justify that it has as many positives in terms of community forming as lpq and opq does. @Cynn youre just listing current issues with the pqs without implying any theory to if those suggested changes are done how it would be different.
I think allowing users to benefit by selling leech is a good thing for new(er) players though. Having washers being pigeoned into your LPQ/OPQ is much worse and dcing made the experience awful. Community forming is what you make of the game and is completely subjective. I do not know what each new players want, and to be quite honest, when I was 14 years old I loved CPQ. CPQ was so much fun due to the competition and rewards of feeling strong and killing monsters I only saw in brief instances in the real maple world (rombots and trojans, trojans spawn is shit in ludi). But I can understand why it's pretty uninteresting to have only one PQ in a specific level range. But our community is too small and those level ranges are too fast. PPQ is as boring as CPQ with just kill and move right. I don't even think most players know R&J works/exists. It all starts with the playerbase but we should never force funnel players into it. Incentivizing EXP I think is usually secondary to new players, so long as they're competitive to each other, injecting early-game mesos I think is more important. Suggestion to PQs like R&J/OPQ: Add a jackpot reward of like 30% weapon scrolls don't add pure mesos let all pqs like this R&J/OPQ/LPQ also give mid tier rewards of red ciders/yellow ciders. I miss seeing these buggers in the market
I'm just going to double post because I thought of something. I hate how PQs are so hard to get to, like Magaita is so inconvenient. Can we just have PQs somehow reachable in an easy area, like an NPC in the FM that lets you go to only the PQ area? No abuseable glitches that'll let you cheat warp to Ludi or anything.
I used to love cpq too, when it was competitive. And ariant pq is even more fun, ive held guild events where we all make lvl 24 characters and compete for prizes. I just find the alternative of not having cpq in its current state more beneficial. One of the things i loved about *other old school server* was the lack of cpq. It was more fun to level up and made friends so fast. Just a more enjoyable experience. I know there is an option to not wash and reach hp goals through daily hp quest, i have done so. I played an mm from scratch not using any leech and no equips from my mains. It was HARD AS HELL, repetitive, and took months to grind. The option is there i get it, but i feel that having hp gains organically through normal play would be more beneficial towards the goal of player retention. Most players that make multiple characters leech/wash. those who decide not to leech/wash maybe do a 2nd playthrough? If the playthrough was more enjoyable in such ways i and many others suggested, it would bring them back again and again.
What about: - Changing broken glasses from 20 hp to 300 - Making the OPQ glove 3 wa 400 hp clean. - Making Eye of Horus competitive with Deputy Star (7 allstat, 100 base hp/mp + gains from rock of wisdom), and potentially reduce runs needed to acquire it - Add a few one-time HP purchases for tokens of teamwork (maybe ~300 HP max?). Or maybe do this in the form of pendant for HP 30/60%s, giving 100/50 hp per pass? - Reduce HPQ tokens of teamwork since when people want tokens they just farm that daily. Also giving a small amount of HP for completing certain questlines, like the quests for each area boss would be nice. That adds: - 300 HP on an already very strong eye accessory (2 allstat 5 slot is already pretty big for thieves, until they go for toad I guess) - A decent glove with HP for people to 60% and hopefully make something to carry them until SCG - Extra HP in general - Slightly more incentive to PQ Sure, these won't be best in slot, but at least the glasses and glove could potentially last a while, which lets people start bossing earlier, and eventually they can HP quest/wash out extra MP to upgrade gear.
Hope you’ll like the new Questline An Adventurers Assignment and the HP you can get from it. Thanks for your feedback!
