You hear about this subject every day on the server, HP washing. However, in my opinion, it's not healthy for the game up to a certain point. HP washing certainly was a part of the pre-bigbang official maplestory server, but the limitation at that point was real money. I will list a few reasons why it should be limited up to a certain point ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. It removes any danger from boss runs What is the fun of running a boss without any chance of dying? Imagine you are a level 180 Night Lord with alot of avoid. Zakum hits you only 10-20% of the time, the other times it misses. Besides that, you have 15 k hp. Will this person ever die? Maybe if he laggs out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. It makes Warriors look stupid (Especially Dark Knights) The only Warrior that is worth making for boss runs is currently Hero, because they were made to be the highest DPS warrior. Why would you take a DK in your party if you don't need the extra HP? It removes the need of their key ability, to boost the HP of more fragile, DPS jobs. And why would you pick a warrior for their survivabilty, while you can make another job who can achieve even more with avoidability ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. It makes certain jobs able to solo bosses without any danger, being able to tank hits without HB Examples: Papulatus and Anego. Papulatus does around 5-5.5 k touch damage, and so does the gun Anego shoots. And in more extreme cases of washing, fragile jobs are actually able to survive any hit they dish out. Without HP washing, you will get around 5-5.5 k hp at level 200 as a BM or NL, making it still quite a gamble, but your survivabilty will improve with leveling up, which is more balanced then the current system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. There are no cons to HP washing with the current leeching system You have a character with 200 int not being able to do any damage? No problem! You just place a bishop to leech you, and you will probably even level up faster as if you were to train yourself. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In my opinion, HP washing needs to be more balanced. Maybe there should be a limit to how many washes you should be able to do. Auto HP already helps you out alot with survival, I think so much added HP is just not healthy for the game. Would like to hear all of your opinions/ideas about this matter.
1. So? You're paying a lot for it 2. Warriors get way more hp per wash 3. Refer to number 1 4. No cons? 10m per wash, leeching is expensive as heck. If you want to make your own bish, it's going to take a loooooong time. It's been in game too long to change now. I personally don't see a problem.
I do agree that it costs alot and that there is quite some time investment, but in the end your character will almost become immortal. Is that really healthy gameplay? @ point 2, they do but usually it doesnt really matter because they've got enough hp to survive most hits already.
Same thing can be said about pet auto potting remove that too then, i would die a lot more without pet than i would with my high HP, thanks too pet i can leave in a zak run and go eat and still be alive, when i return.
Since one has put much effort in building up an immortal character, why not? It takes time and effort to buy leeches, all the mesos and nx are earned legitimately, meso buying aren't allowed, it is a fair game-play. Some find nostalgia just in fighting zakum without risk of dying, hence being immortal is good. Some might find nostalgia in having the risk of dying (some sense of challenge due to the risk), hence you are absolutely welcome to choose whether to hp wash, and also whether to use the pet auto potting function.
Reasons against: 1) I dont think you really understand how much washing it requires to tank an attack from anego, or even from bigfoot. It costs billions of mesos and hundreds of hours of leech, even with the recent discovery of MP washing. 2) Big goals (expensive goals) like this are good for the longevity of the game. Giving people something to shoot necessarily means you spend more time playing. 2.5) This gives people a way to distinguish themselves. People have heard of chance and his crazy attempt to make a 30k HP night lord. Next you'll be wanting to ban white scrolls because people are perfecting weapons and doing that much damage makes the game too easy. 3) AP resets are good for the economy. It's one of the few consistent ways to get money out of the pockets of older, richer, high level players and into the pockets of the fresh new players. 4) If pink bean and other additional content is ever released, we'll need 12k+ HP ranged characters and 30K hp warriors. If you limit HP washing now, and those players level up to the point they can't effectively wash, then even if you raise the limit once those bosses are released, they'll lose hundreds of hours of levelling and many untradeable gears on having to start over, because there is no way to wash without levelling up. 5) On the other hand, if you try to limit washing now, how is that fair to the new players? People who have been around for a while have done a lot more washing, and people who are just starting are never going to be able to catch up. If you try to reset the HP of the people who have washed to "normal levels" how is that fair to them? Now to respond directly to your points. 1 and 3) Since these are the same point basically, I'll respond to them together. My main question here is "why does this matter?" What actual effect does someone else's HP and death rate have to do with your game experience? How does someone else being able to tank a boss change things for you while playing royals? 2) might be a legitimate argument - but we are nowhere near this point as a server. DrKs aren't needed at zak even on completely unwashed characters after a certain point. It's always been that way. At Horntail however, anyone who hasn't spent multiple billions (yes, more than one billion) on washing is still going to need HB. DrK's are standard for the ranged party, because in 90% of runs at least one ranged attacker is going to need it - and these are the highest levelled players on the server! If/When stronger bosses (CWKPQ, PB) release, there will only be 2-3 ranged players that are capable of surviving it even at level 200. DrKs are still, and will continue to be necessary. Plus, if you like playing a DrK, play one. I've never been on a boss run where someone was looking for a warrior and turned down a DrK. And most people go bossing with friends and guildmates anyway, so while damage does matter, it's not the #1 concern. 4) If that's how people want to play the game, let them. It's absolutely 100% possible to train yourself, non-leeching with 60 int on a first character. I know this, because I did it. I did it a long time ago, when I first joined the server. I did it again, this summer when I made my BM but with 80 int, and I'm doing it a third time with 100 int on my future DrK. I have never bought a leech for my main playing characters, only for various mules. I have never self leeched, and I have rarely PQ'd. once again, how other people are choosing to play the game and the goals that they are shooting for has zero effect on you.
Just wanted to add- even with 7.1k HP on a 183 night lord, while I can tank one hit and still have 2-3k HP leftover from Oblivion mobs (where I train)... I can still die. Easily. As my friend and I found out yesterday morning when I was grinding and died. I've died at HT several times (Not including the one stupid moment I decided to FJ into horntail's heads..) Even with HP washing, DrKs are still necessary like ^ said above. I can't live at HT without HB, and I know many other ranged can't as well.
Thanks for all of your opinions. I have indeed taken an extreme case of NL and 15 khp, which might be an extreme scenario, but it does happen. Especially with NL having alot of avoidability this gives the game even more inbalance in my opinion. NL's are already really strong, even unwashed, and while i do agree some hp washing should be ok, I think extreme cases should be prevented by having a cap on certain jobs. Even if it costs alot of money to do it.
Why though? How does someone choosing to do this affect you in any way? Why do you want to limit the effort that others willingly put into their characters? Some people HP wash just to survive and others choose to invest a LOT of time and money and go hard with the HP washing. How can you determine where someone should stop HP washing? What if someone doesn't just want to survive but also wants to be able to survive two hits without using a potion? What if someone wants to be able to use a ginger ale to heal to max rather than needing power elixirs? It seems illogical to cap it off before 30k because each individual has their own set of goals.
Pre-Big Bang servers also had an NX item that would allow you to resurrect once you died. I think easier access to HP Washing makes up for that.
It does not affect me in any way, but that's not what im trying to discuss. It's just an opinion, and it would be nice to hear out everyone's. I do agree with a few statements that were made here. Of course HP washing has its positive sides too, especially as a factor for people to continue improving. However another downside in my opinion is that it makes the balance between jobs even more of a mess. It throws away the entire meaning of some characters, with warrior being able to survive more, and bowmans and thieves having to watch out for tough hits.
I don't see a point in removing it. It's an extremely important piece of the game; without it most DPS won't survive a hit from HT. Idk if PB is implemented, but PB would be impossible no matter what without HP washing.
Not only are there a lot of people who can't afford to HP wash, there are some who didn't really think of it to be an option, as it was pretty much only done by rich people in GMS So there are still quite a few people who need the HB. Also, if you know your boss runs will almost always have a DrK in it, you only need to wash up to 18750 Hp. I would be in favor of making it perhaps a little more affordable, like cutting down the price of ap resets and possibly sp resets as well.
No character gets useless cause of this. Without hp washing DKs would probably have a much harder time using zerk, i assume they don't get 18k base hp without washing, and i know it would be painful at earlier levels. DK is a support class and they probably don't out damage a Hero but that doesn't make them any less viable, when I first started doing z-runs here i thought DKs are useless and you always needed a hero... that was far from the truth. You are right that this takes away the NL being high speed ninjas that jumps around dodging and stuff, but in all honesty, this game don't have enough strategy and high skill mechanics for that sort of gameplay, and it don't make any class less viable. Pets is worse than high hp. Side Note: Seems you missed out on some hp washing, you don't have to hp wash,but some end game content makes it very useful. It's not that expensive since it's pretty easy to get mesos on this server, and with free NX, and the high drop rate, im surprised AP resets don't cost more.
1. It removes any danger from boss runs 1HP/1MP attacks though 2. It makes Warriors look stupid sexy (Especially Dark Knights Pallys) Fixed it for you 3. It makes certain jobs able to solo bosses without any danger, being able to tank hits without HB 1HP/1MP attacks though 4. There are no cons to HP washing with the current leeching system >not making your own Bishop and leeching yourself in multiclient >paying for leech >ever
I disagree 100%. If someone wants to spend all the nx they get from voting, all the mesos the get from grinding / leeching themself/ whatever on ap resets, thats their choice. there was an old MS commercial that had someone swinging at a char with a frozen tuna and it was like... Why are you hitting that guy with a frozen tuna... Because i can and its free. so conclusion. ^^^^^^ PS. making a 30k NL. QQ about it
Well I would have made a response if I saw this earlier but @jmmainvi pretty much covered most of it. [Off-topic] Just came to link this in (Although AP Resets weren't exactly 'free' in Maplestory )
Thanks for everyone's opinion on this. It would probably be impossible to remove it after all this time, with people putting alot of effort in it. I still think that if you look at it at a balancing standpoint, it gives certain classes more unnecessary strenghts. However old school maple wasn't really balanced to begin with. Thread can be closed, thanks again for all your feedback. P.S : This thread was not made to QQ because I may have missed out on HP washing while leveling (Which isn't even true, I leveled with quite alot of int most of the time). I was just wondering what everyone's opinion about it was, and I wanted to share mine.
