Need to imply HP washing before starting

Hello. I'm a newbie who just started.
However, while browsing the forums, there was something called hp washing.
I didn't know there was such an important system in the game.
Therefore, in order to avoid inconvenience to new users, I think it is necessary to inform them before starting.

 

Well luckily its not required!

 

Its not required by the game. But more so socially.

what I mean is that instead of trying to recruit HB into boss runs, most would opt to just find another washed player to fill the role.

 

There are hp quests you can do at later level as well. You can get max hp with just dedication instead of washing. Plus you get 8k nx daily you can use on apr if you wish to wash casually. I play a 115 beginner, not being able to wash didn't prevent me from participating in pqs or grinding. Other than bosses, I'm able to somewhat carry my weight still. You can still enjoy everything while not washing. Washing is for min/maxing

 

I strongly disagree. Below I will show you some HP requirements that are otherwise impossible to meet without washing/dumping fresh AP into your char:

6125 HP: Horntail w/ Hyper Body
7.5k HP: Shaolin/Bigfoot w/ Hyper Body.
8.2k Hp: Explosion of High Dark Star (Papulatus summon) w/o hb
9800 HP: Horntail w/o Hyper Body
10.2k HP: Explosion of Blood Boom (Pianus Summon) w/o HB
10188 HP: Castellan(Toad) w/ Hyper Body
11.5k HP: Pink Bean w/ Hyper Body (PB doesn't exist in this server yet)
12.1k HP: Shaolin/Bigfoot w/o Hyper Body
16.3k HP: Castellan (Toad) w/o Hyper Body
18.4k HP: Pink Bean w/o Hyper Body (again, no PB on royals yet)
18750 HP: Anego (Female Boss) slap damage w/o HB
25k HP: Horntail Head B touch damage y
The Boss (Grandpa) w/o Hyper Body
27k HP: Bodyguard B
30k HP: Horntail's tail with atk buff. Actually only warriors with Max Achilles can survive this and maybe 30k/30k mages and maybe 30k shads with meso guard.
Warriors with Max Achilles reduce the min HP requirement as Max Achilles reduces your weapon damage taken by 15%

A few remarks:
BF according to the monster book is a Lv103 boss. No unwashed melee class can survive BF on Lv103 without HB. Buccaneer cannot survive with HB until 4th job. However they have enough HP with HB at Lv120 without making 4th job so you can complete with extra HP Equips such as medal and pendants.
No unwashed ranged class can survive BF even at Lv200. The same applies to Anego's slap damage, Castellan (Toad), PB and the Showa Bosses.
Pianus is a Level 110 Boss. No unwashed Melee Class can survive the explosion of a Blood Boom until they reach 4th job and Buccaneer cannot survive until +Lv150. Ranged classes can barely survive the 10k hit almost reaching Lv200 with HB.
Papulatus Clock is a Level 125 Boss. No unwashed ranged class survives the explosion of a High Dark Star without HB, even at Lv200.
Female Boss is a Lv130 Boss. No unwashed Melee class can survive slap damage up without HB until almost Lv200 assuming Max Achilles reduces slap damage and unwashed Buccaneers can barely survive slap damage close to Lv200 with HB. Unwashed ranged classes cannot survive gun damage up until Lv175+
Shaolin is a Lv150 Boss. Unwashed Melee classes reach the HP requirement for Lv145, except Buccaneer which won't be able to tank without HB until Lv188. Then again no Unwashed Ranged class can survive Shao (a 10 min silly boss that can be taken in duo with apples), not even at Lv200, and not even with HB.
Horntail is a Lv160 Boss. No unwashed melee class can survive touch dmg which is near +20k if Max Achilles without HB, even at Lv200. Unwashed ranged classes can barely survive magic damage at all close to Lv200 with HB. This includes unwashed Lv200 Buccaneers.
Castellan (Toad) is a Lv180 Boss. No unwashed ranged class can survive even at Lv200 and even with HB.

And we're not even talking about other bosses such as Vergamot, Nibergen, Dunas, Auf Haven whose damage data I don't know and therefore I can't give proper info.

You'd better say "HP Washing Optional", but implying you will lose most of the fun and most of the end-game content the server has to offer.

Then again why it's HP washing Optional? Most of the community will expect you to wash anyways, you cannot gain reasonable exp from Zak/Pap/Krex after you hit the level req for Shao, HT and at later levels, Toad. These are the bosses you should be able to face, but if you follow the natural progression of the game without dumping your fresh AP into HP, there's no way you'll be doing that unless you invest some money (or time) into the HP Quest. Most of the people you will met in this server will tell you: A) Make a leech/moneymaker mule to fund your leech. Pro players who have experience with this have told me that they first made they moneymaker mule, then AFTER THAT they made their main character, you need to make a bs mule anyways for HS, res and conveniently have a Mage sign for cwkpq. B) The HP Quest is a waste of time as it will take you several months, even years to reach min HP requirement for high-HP demanding bosses, while you can invest no more than 1-2 months into making a leech or several leech mules and even you can make money to not only fund your wash, but also your equipments, and several silly stuff like chairs that everybody seems to like and waste their money after people finally accomplish their HP requirement quota.

 

My nl hp was 8.4k clean with slight wash, what makes u think hp wash is necessary for me? Simply I just don't go shao, HT or toad unless PT having a drk. For your wall of text boss dmg deal, there's no problem to pap/anego/pianus, just have to be extra careful. Hp wash become necessary only when u think joining end game bosses are necessary. One last thing, chair is not silly item, I liked chair much more than high end eqs >.>...

 

I don't see a point in your post. We do have a hp quest available that bring player to 9.5k hp so player don't need to wash. In addition, just because ht tail hit 30k+ or pap bomb hit 8k, or bigfoot touch dmg of 12k, it doesn't mean a player needs to tank it. A skillful player can easily dodge the damage by making a smart decision (not jump into the tail, dud). Toad is the only exception that a player can't do without the aid of hp washing or hp quest

 

1 hour of leech is 100m on the least. You can buy at least 9 APR with the current prices in the market. That's worth 9 resets you can -MP into HP if you train a washed character. Making a mage leech should not take more than 1 month. While on that time you gather stuff to be able to 1-hit specially on low-lvl where the requirement is easier and therefore you spend less funding your mage.
Compare that with the 30min-1hr that you need to do to gain what it was again, 10-20hp thats more or less than 1 APR worth resetting?
In my opinion not only that is a waste of time, but its also the worst and slowest way to increase your HP.
If you do the math right, you can sell daily hours of leech, and gather even more funds, drastically reducing the time you need to accomplish your HP goal.
Tell me why a player would waste time on the HP Quest when it's the slowest method to increase your HP when you can simply make a leech mage and sell leech you get your APR much quickly that way and you also profit to buy other stuff otherwise the HP Quest only grants you a minimal amount of HP per hour invested.
If I were really to invest time in the HP Quest, it would have to be like something that increases your HP at least by 50 or 100 per hour invested on the quest. In one day of CPQ Leech I've managed to make over 600m. Thats like, more than 50APR? Slightly more than 50 I think at the current price could be like 55. And I'm not even considering I'm not selling leech for full hours because there are dead hours where no one is in CPQ. If there would be people on CPQ all day I could possibly sell up to 1B all day along just on selling leech. My point is that the HP Quest isn't really worth it unless you are a masochist and do it in the slowest way possible. For me time is also a valuable resource and the most efficient way to increase your HP in the shortest amount of time would be via selling leech by long hours by a really long shot. Of course if you don't like selling leech and playing more your character you can disagree with me but alas it will really take you a long time to reach your desired HP goal and honestly that wouldn't be the best thing to do when you have limited hours to play the game and need to maximize the time resource into something that's really worth it. Honestly I don't like leeching and sometimes It gives me drowsiness but I've realized that for increasing your HP is the most efficient option. I didn't even make a properly washed character but if I would done like I told earlier, first a leech mage then my main, with the no more than 3 months? I play since March, I would be done selling leech by now and start playing my main actually. If I were to grind with the HP Quest. It would literally take me forever to reach a High HP Goal.

 

The HP quest was meant to help those “unplayable” unwashed characters who want to go to bosses like HT. It was never meant to be a cheaper/easier alternative to the old APR washing method as that would just make APRs and quite possibly a lot of these INT gears suddenly worthless?

 

But I'm not talking about easier alternative. I'm talking about a viable alternative that's worth the invest of time.
Selling leech while it is easy to say it's quite simple, it really isn't. First you have to grind your mage leecher, dedicate time to it, I assume you take one month raising a mage leecher, then you have to save funds to equip your character properly so he can sell leech. You actually have to invest many hours of gameplay to be actually able to sell leech. BUT when you do it it's quite profitable. We are talking about low level leech 40/80m per hour if low leech, or 70/140 if skele or petri leech.

While on the meantime on one hour of doing the HP Quest, assuming you take one hour, you can take less time depending on your class and damage, you only get 10-20hp points in that meantime.

Both selling leech and grinding for the HP Quest implies that you have to invest your most limited resource: Time.

It only took me a few days to raise a CPQ Leecher then I started selling leech. The only problem I am facing right now is that CPQ is dead most of the time and I don't get consistent buyers who can afford to buy from 30-50 straight. But when I do I can get a huge chunk of meso in a relative short amount of time. With those meso I can not only buy APR but I can also fund my own Bowmaster with better equipment. If you were to grind for the HP Quest you pretty much lose your time and gain no profit from it, your only reward is a measly 10-20HP increase that otherwise would equal to the amount of 0.8-1.2APRs if you instead sold leech to actually fund the APRs.

From my perspective, the HP Quest should be rewarding enough so you can get a reasonable amount of HP, within a reasonable timeframe.
Spending from 30min to 1hour to gain only 10-20HP is not a reasonable time invested to reward ratio. In those half to 1 hour I could consistently make enough money to buy many times the amount of APR that would grant me more HP through MP washing. Why I would want to do the HP Quest if it's gonna take me longer. There should be an alternative that doesn't put you at a disadvantage of losing more time in order to achieve the same goal.

Thought these are only my approximated calculations and should be taken into consideration that sometimes there is more or less demand of leech on certain zones. I only sell CPQ Leech so my sales are pretty much limited to that zone. If you want me to give more specific data I can tell you this: Most of my friend who have been playing for a long time do have many mules, they do have mage leechers because they know that's the more profitable way to earn meso. Thought I haven't asked them how many time they took to actually be able to fund their HP Wash, you can simply do the math by yourself.

A friend sold 3 hours of skele leech for example. He earned over 450m from the leech itself, plus the drops he NPCs at skeles.
Do that for 10 days straight and you already have enough funds to do a reasonable wash with 4.5b

If I do a rough calculation, lets try
to reach 15k hp goal as a night lord washing from lv1 you would need 13.86b which can be achieved with 3 hours a day from selling skele leech for 30 days straight which would be the same as saying 90 hours invested to reach a little less than 13.5b assuming the market prices for APR and Leech are fixed and don't change.

to reach 15k hp with the HP quest, assuming you are able to do the HP Quest in 20min on average (stats taken from a Lv187 NL with 6.6k range who happens to be my guild master, says he takes on average 20min per HP quest), and assuming you get 15hp (one of 10hp and one of 20hp on average per quest repetition, assuming the 9500 limit is removed) can take more or less mmmmm lets say 333 hours on the least. If you are not a Lv187 NL with 6.6k range this can take even more time on average. Since everybody is not a High Level NL with decent range, then I can assume some can take 40min which easily doubles the time 666 hours and if you were to take 1 hour per trip that would be a whopping 999 hours. But we are forgetting the HP Quest has a daily limit past reaching 9500 base HP by Level 175. So that means 10-20 (average 15HP assuming 50/50) per day. How many days it takes to reach (15000-9500) = 5500 more HP to reach the 15k HP mark when you are only able to do the HP quest daily past 9500HP? Well it takes 366 days.

I don't think that is a reasonable timeframe to just gain 5500 more HP where as with leeching that should take just a few days of selling leech.
Either I don't want the HP Quest to be broken and replace the current APR/Washing system, but rather an alternative that lets both option coexist while the user can decide to choose one path or the other and not feel like the alternative path is just an infinite staircase that will take you forever to climb to the top because right now that's how I feel about the HP Quest.

 

please get your fact right first. Have you done the hp quest before? it only takes me avg 15~20mins per quest after the drop rate boost

 

Yeah, for you, not for me. For me it takes roughly 1 hour with my current level and range which is Lv153 with clean 3055 range (I have 220 base INT and dumped lots of AP into HP). You didn't even read the whole post as I stated afterwards my guild master can do it in pretty much 20 minutes. Considering he's a High Level NL with High Range, it is expected that me, a semiwashed bowmaster with considerably less damage output will take more time on the average, you can't simply say that everybody will be able to do the quest in 20 minutes because that's simply not true.

Also you should take into consideration the increased drop rate of the anniversary event which drastically reduces the time to get certain drops, normally I would take 1-2 hours to collect all 5 paper pieces for Kenta's Advice quest but with the +13% bonus drop I could get it in no more than 25 minutes and with 17% of bonus drop it was slightly less than 15 min approximately.

 

in this context i fail to see at all the difference between adjectives like "viable" and "easier" because i would assume you are basically advocating for a buff towards to hp quest rewards. but putting that aside, since you used various examples to elaborate your points i will try to assert my perspective here in a similar way :

making a mage, you assumed one month, let's say 4 hours of gameplay a day to get it there, this is equal to 120 hours of work.

with this 120 hours of gameplay, on your unwashed character you would have done, based on your assumed averages :

thats 45minutes for 15hp, so 120 hours of hp quest would get you around 2.4k hp which is equivalent to about 133APRs (~1.5b meso). i'm pretty sure at this point with the help of the other hp quest and hp from gears like medal, dojo belt, bfc you will already have enough hp to join a ht run without hb.

now if you're insisting on making a mage first before playing your attacker class at all to get it perfect, thats 120hours + 10 hours of selling skeles leech just for the APR money you would need to get the equivalent 2.4k hp. but that's not even all because

• you would need more APRs to wash your remove your base INT points
• you would have to leech it from scratch since you have massive base INT before washing out
  
• you would need to sell some more low level leech to gear your mage up if you want to do skeles

by the time you're done with all that the person doing only hp quest would probably be sitting on a pretty comfortable HP pool enough to go on HT without hb already.

again, it's meant for allowing characters who want to dive into the bossing scene straight away without having to build a mage first, not for the perfectionist 30k NL wannabes out there since using APR is just much more efficient like you have discovered.

 

Hp quest meant to be "unreasonable" sir, pls get Ur mindset right . It's a door for those "fked up" characters to gain hp, not a hp washing alternative. No point to compare both.

 

Are you sure about that? I remember taking more than one hour with my bowmaster, at least one hour and a half, a high leveled character with high mobility (was using the silver mane=170 speed), that was really long time compared with the next two tries.
With the low level character I also used victorian basket to move at 140 speed but still got the 5 pieces in 2nd try no more than 15 minutes and with 3nd char also moving at 140 speed no more than 20-25 minutes.

 

Then this is not an attempt to "fix" it, you're just offering a really shitty way to offer help to those who have "screwed" characters and you're offering it in the worst way possible, considering wash takes valuable time from the player, regardless of what's the method you choose to increase your base HP.

I was about to quit at certain point but my guild friends were nice enough to don't let me die. Of course I'm not the only one and I've told new people who join the server the implications of washing and as is expected, most of them are discouraged as still anyways they either have to choose a grind quest for a really ludicrous amount of time or make a mage leech, which isn't really that bad as I pointed out earlier it's worth making a bs anyways for hs/res which comes very handy as I've seen in our guild runs and mage sign for cwkpq so you're not really "losing" your time when you invest on leveling up a 12x-13x bs.

Doing the HP Quest makes you lose time tho as the only sole purpose is to offer an alternative to what's already in the standard and is considered in other servers a flawed mechanic. While the reward of grinding a bs is pretty much the self explained and the amount of time is justified in comparison to what you "get", doing the HP Quest is not as it is purposefully made to make you lose time and not gain any valuable amount of HP in a reasonable amount of time.

But whatever I do understand we agree to disagree and I'll just continue with my leeching mules anyways it will be worth the time invested and not only a miserable increase of HP for only one character not gonna lose my time on that crap. You wanted my opinion have it then, you don't want my opinion I can stop posting on this thread as anyways I no longer care.

If you were more reasonable I'd suggest adjusting the quest to a minimum of 50HP, with either a 75HP or 100HP reward sometimes. Someone mentioned something about the Quest not competing with the APR market. Honestly I don't see why that would be a bad thing since anyways the market is inflated and people have to resort to the 1B coin to exchange stuff, I'd say that's is also ridiculous to see inflation in a MMORPG but my guess is that if the APR values drop, eventually everything else will drop its price meaning people will have less need for the 1B coin but that's just my opinion and I'm no economist but that's what I think about it.