Questions about Christmas Tree event results

So my teammates and I are surprised and quite disappointed with the results of the creative tree contest to be honest. (LINK FOR RESULTS HERE). We made a GM tree representing Kaii: we had a clear theme, utilized a specific color scheme, had to coordinate between team members for each set of layers ( we had 3 layers on the tree), coordinated outfits, and a working composition. We met twice for 2 hours each: once for a trial run/ reference for brainstorm and the 2nd time to finalize it, not to mention we were constantly discussing things on discord. It took us a long time because of the 3 layers we had in which we had to carefully coordinate each member due to the fact that certain items had to be jump dropped and they are shown on the screen in order of how they are dropped. On top of that we had to constantly remove and replace things despite that to work out a working composition. However we were bested by a tree that honestly has no artistic flair or composition and is also a poor copy of the previous years winning gm tree by Sila(Link). The tree is so empty the lightbulbs on the tree look like they are half the decoration. Did we misunderstand something? The guideline for this category is:

GM Tree: Decorate a tree and explain why the tree, items, or theme represent the GM's of MapleRoyals.

Is the key word "Gm's" here? were we supposed to make a tree that represents every single gm? if this is the case I have to say that theres no way anyone would know all of them except the people who are in frylan and oblivion like the winners and making a tree with all of them would be a messy theme to work around. Or is it that the GM's are not required to vote objectively here and are able to vote for just their friends for the sake of friendship? Or is this supposed to be a Christmas Tree Explanation event in which the visuals dont matter? Is this gonna happen every year where the gm tree is won by whoever uses that same idea of "1 item per gm on the tree"?

We're not looking to be given the first place prize or overturn the results, we just want an explanation of why a tree that looks so visually uninteresting with an unoriginal idea won instead of ours

 

Hi,

First of all, please don't be mad about being a runner-up, your tree was very nice and definitely a good choice for first place!

However, don't assume that just because our tree doesn't look 'super artistically professional' that we didn't spend a lot of time on it. Me and @Yan actually had the idea over a month before the event was even up, and it took us weeks to finalise what items we believe represented their avatars the best. We even struggled on a few even after that, like with Sila's and Martins, but decided to go with the best we could find.

Also, our idea is completely original, no one has made something about the GMs' avatars before, we checked - what you linked is about the GM as a person and has nothing to do with their avatars.

Please don't berate my tree any further as it is not nice to do, we did put a lot of work into ours, and afaik the gm event doesn't have to be about every gm, or even any gm at all. (see some of the other GM trees for example)

 

-Speaking as Evan, not staff-

The issue is he's arguing objectivity, and I can't disagree that when you look at event winnings it does seem pretty skewed to a few guilds/groups. Whether or not this is because they are better event winners or not is hard to pin down, and I'm not arguing either side in this. But when a good chunk (Like >50% of active staff) are in one of two guilds, also owned by staff, I would hope you can see how it might seem impossible or frustrating for other guilds and new players to have a shot.

 

This is just my 2 cents, but it looks like the majority of work that you put into your tree was in the quotes section of how each item described the GM. Your tree looks very plain and empty. Most of those items are just haphazardly spread about. If it was a writing contest, I think you should win, for sure. But for decorating purposes, it's not very appealing, at least to my eyes. Either way, congratulations on your victory.

-EDIT-
Thinking aloud, I know that with contests in stores like Target or Game Stop, for example, there is a rule that workers of the store or their family cannot enter these contests because they would have more opportunity to win than regular applicants. I wonder if these types of rules should be applied to forum events too.

 

I have to agree with this. When an average player looks at the results of the decorating event and sees that of 8 possible winners, 3 of them are GMs, there's going to be some raised eyebrows. I've even seen players in FM talking to their friends about not bothering with making a tree because they don't think the selection is fair.

I don't think that excluding GMs from these events is a good solution, since they're often very active and invested players, but I think several ideas would help alleviate feelings of impartiality among the average player.

1) Publish the grading rubric for each category before the event.
2) Publish GM votes after the event winners are announced.
3) Appoint judges before the event who are not allowed to enter the event.
4) Possibly have a special category for GMs who submit extraordinary submissions and exclude them from normal prizes.

 

You'd be mistaken, the text took me about 30 minutes to write, since most are from anime/games that I already know about so I either quoted some of my favourite quotes that their particular character says in said anime or game, or I'd make up a quote about the game (like with Chrille's Dark Souls avatar.)
Also, it clearly says from what a 'GM Tree' should be, that the text is part of the event also - 'GM Tree: Decorate a tree and explain why the tree, items, or theme represent the GM's of MapleRoyals.'

I can't comment on what you edited since I don't know how things are behind the scenes, but this is a bit different, am I not allowed to choose my friends? Not because of their status in this game, but because they are simply my friend? You can't 'log on your legit' at GameStop, so it's not really the same thing in regard to entering competitions from said chain of store etc.

 

I didn't catch that difference in your idea which I apologize for. But to be fair I am not trying to berate your tree, I am simply communicating what I am perceiving objectively about your submission and why I do not feel it is worthy to be placed 1st. So im sorry if it seems mean but I am not doing this out of bad intentions towards you or your team, I am trying to get a proper explanation for the results assuming that the results are supposed to be objective, So that I may be at ease with the results

 

For what it's worth, it's also a decorating event. You put emphasis on the description, some people put emphasis on how it looks. Both are right, you both just took from the rules what you thought was most important.

 

I personally don’t mind gm’s winning these events however I must admit that I do heavily feel that even among the 2 winning most creative trees each done by a gm team, that there are quite a lot of submissions that seem much more worthy

 

I don't really think there's any problem with GMs winning either, I quite like Eli's tree. But I do think that any steps that can be taken to increase the appearance of impartiality would be great.

 

You can criticize the event and offer up constructive suggestions all you want, but please stop finding new ways to basically tell them "I think your tree is ugly and bad, and you don't deserve to win." If this was a broader comment about the event as a whole (as other replies in this thread have been like), that'd be one thing. But your posts are single target attacking that particular group and that particular tree. That's not very nice, and it just adds more toxicity to this community. Whether something looks good or not is, by definition, a subjective judgment.

 

The whole GM themed tree is immensely flawed because it gives people who actually know the GMs a huge advantage.

The #1 tree is literally "here's an item or two of things we know each of our GM friends likes and why". I don't blame them, what else you gonna do? It's just a lackluster category. Lol.

 

Congrats to both teams!

 

I don't get why any of you even care this much lol. It's a GM hosted event on a fuckin maplestory private server - take your rare nx and move on lmfao.

 

Let me clarify then. This event is called "Winter Holiday Forum Event: Christmas Tree Decorating!"
You certainly did decorate a tree but if you look at EVERY OTHER WINNER'S TREE, their tree is lavishly decorated and there are group outfits and more coordination (in my opinion). For example, the Guardian's tree has a lovely display of showmanship and decorating skills. The color coordination is on point. The most creative tree is also very pretty and uses character effects and a good display of colors as well. The Maple Royals themed tree also has many different items that accurately represent the struggle of upgrading gear and starting from the bottom and working towards the top. Your tree, however, doesn't display many characteristics of a "Christmas Tree Decorating" event. I see it as a good DESCRIPTION of each gm, but as far as a decorated tree, I don't feel that the tree fully captures the point. What I see is a few items dropped on the tree, a very detailed description of said item, and then some characters wearing their normal outfits spread around smiling. I just don't feel that captures the spirit of a decorating contest. That is why I said your entry is more like a writing contest. And again, if it was a writing contest, you certainly would have won, your descriptions are wonderful and the quotes were good.

You can cherry pick quotes that people say all day, it still doesn't change the fact there there is a very solid argument behind your chosen statements; objectivity should be questioned. Please stay on topic.
-Edit-
Please don't slander my friend by saying he is adding toxicity to the community. You are the one who is comparing what he said to something you feel he said. If you have questions, ask for clarification. Don't assume things.

 

Apologies if you thought I was off topic. I was asking the original poster and other posters to focus on the topic at hand (the judging of the event and how to improve it in the future) instead of insulting other people's work, as I do think attacking work that other people put time, thought, and effort into adds toxicity to the community. If you have a different definition of toxicity, I do apologize. Personally, I believe that it's possible to talk about the merits of your own tree without saying that other people's trees have no artistic flair or any of the other adjectives your friend used. I have no questions, nor did I make any assumptions, about what he said -- he literally said that their tree had no artistic flair (among other things). Please note that Aerith and the other members who worked on the first place tree have not said anything along those lines about the original poster's tree. Again, whether something looks good or not is a completely subjective ruling. Just because you and your friend think something looks better does not necessarily mean the whole world has to agree with you.

 

You can decontextualize comments that people make all day; it still doesn't change the fact that the intent behind this entire thread is inherently based on personal dissatisfaction and masking it with any claims of a pursuit for "objectivity" is grossly inauthentic. Replying to a public forum post where people discuss their personal opinions and viewpoints sounds sensible to any reasonable person, and anyone who has legitimate criticism for certain ideas that have been discussed also has the freedom to voice these concerns. Please stay on topic.
-Edit-
Know your place lmao

 

I think that Nine bought up a good debate about how these are judged. He could have worded it so it seemed less offensive, but I understand the point he is getting at. He probably could have said that their "composition was less complex" but it doesn't imply that it was bad. A simple composition in itself could be appealing. Pretty sure both groups were looking to appeal in different ways anyway.. One was looking to appeal with composition, one was looking to appeal to the GMs memories/personal life.

Basically, his post could have been worded a bit better, but he brings up a very important point about how this contest could be judged under the GM Tree section, which was elaborated in Evan's posts. Congrats to both teams, I 100% believe that both teams deserve the rewards and am extremely glad this topic was brought about. It could possibly change how the ruling in this section goes? Since I do sort of agree that the judging might look a bit biased, though that is not to say GMs or the members of their guilds should be excluded from contests, but precautions should be taken so it doesn't form a misunderstanding.

 

While I understand that you're not mad, per se, I still can't comprehend why y'all care so much. They don't even have to put on events lmfao. I don't understand how any of you can sit there and not even contemplate the concept of human subjectivity.
In any competition you make appeals to the judges, and, while the judges do their best to be objective, their subjective preferences will always come through.
If you really expect pure objectivity from a mapleroyals GM... who is literally just some person who cares enough about the server to put up with y'all's bullshit, then you need to reevaluate your existence lmfao.

 

I agree that the judges try their best to be objective but they cannot ALWAYS be objective-- yes I totally agree with you on that! While I can see that sometimes it's just better to take it for what it is, since it may be something we have no control over, it could also somehow move our community to question things that should be open to debate.

We are only moving forward by questioning. It may be viewed as a time wasting by others but for some of the people who see it as an issue, could see progression in their community. I'd rather have people who care about questioning and improving the community than people who do not care and just let things slide if they know they can do something about it. Doesn't matter the result, it's the thought that they care that is important and I really appreciate that they are bringing this up since it poses questions to those who care about these forum events.