Regarding friends who may have stupidly hacked in the past

I recently talked to someone *coughjordycough* who hacked in a moment of.. stupidity (sorry jordy but it's the absolut truth), and got subsequently ip-banned.

I understand the need for permanent IP bans being issued to prevent the resurgence of hackers.

However, what if someone decides to turn over a new leaf- and misses the community very much? I'd like to suggest a review on a case-by-case basis for some; because I believe that although most are asinine morons who act maliciously and greedily- there exists a minority; a small group of people who do things out of impulse and regret it later.

Of course the person would have to start over from scratch and lose all the items he had- which for the non-malicious, random impulse moments people is probably punishment enough.

Maybe it's just me- but since even convicts get a second chance at life.. maybe some ex-royalers deserve a second chance at..royals?

(Of course I understand otherwise- since it's a case of if you do not bother to read and follow the rules in the first place, you should be punished thoroughly for your actions- and permanent means permanent since one has shown that one is unable to be trusted with an account on royals)

This is just a suggestion.

 

I very much second this in the case of Jordy.

He was with us for a long time pre-wipe and I genuinely don't think he poses a potential hacking problem for the server. He proved his worth as a member of the Maple Royals community for a long time.

Normally, I wouldn't even consider giving hackers a second chance because we either don't know them well enough to know if their words can be trusted, or we know them well enough to be sure that their words can't be trusted.

 

I don't know the guy at all, so he could be a nice, awesome, and amazing fella' but it's my understanding that he broke not just one but two major rules. Maybe sometime in the future he should be allowed back, but he should still have to serve a lengthy portion of his ban.
If you (just a general you, by the way) were to allow him to come back, it wouldn't be very fair to the others that are turned away for the same reason. It's impossible to truly know someone's intentions; whether they planned to be malicious or not is only known by the individual, especially when it comes to the Internet. I don't really know how a person uses a cheat and is not considered to be malicious, though. The cheater is never remorseful about the act while they're doing it, just when they get caught.
Just to stay fair, I wouldn't recommend judging cases depending on the individual in question.

 

But if they would do this, then this would be like an easy way to get rid of a permanent ban for alot of hackers, since it would just require a just few friends to make a thread saying he's regretting what he did and misses the community.

I bet other hackers would abuse this "trick" (not saying you are trying to trick anyone though) to get back to Royals, once they'd see it works.

Goodluck though

 

The Staff needs to maintain consistency. Once we give one player a second chance, every hacker will be asking for the same treatment. Hacking is a permanent ban, that is the precedent that was set. Like falh stated, we really can't judge individual cases based on personal feelings.

 

As someone who knows Jordy through interaction and skype- I can say quite honestly that he probably did it out of boredom and stupidity :/

Indeed, rules are rules- It's the whole nature of consistency and precedence which rules exemplify. Letting one individual through would open a shitstorm for the rest to follow- which would open a can of worms for persistent hackers to take advantage of. It would also show a level of non-professionalism (and more importantly biasness) if exemptions were made based on personal standing and friendship.

I concur with Dan- I was just hoping that there was a way which wouldn't jeopardize the standing of the rules ^^

 

On the other hand an appeal is a plea to overturn a decision. We have an appeal process but it does seem mostly to just clarify why you've been banned and tell you how long you're going to be banned for.

 

Mhm. That's the reason why I brought it up here in feedback- because with the rules standing as they are: bans can never be overturned unless you're innocent of the mentioned crime. Not to say it isn't good-it has definitely kept our server clean and hacker-free.

I was just attempting to examine if a logical rationale for exemption existed. In short- if anything existed which could provide the basis of an exemption for extenuating circumstances apart from being innocent of said crime. (You know like the little clauses associated with any line in the penal code)

Of course at this juncture I'm pretty sure that stupidity and not thinking at the point of action doesn't really count as a circumstance worthy of exemption- since nothing really excuses hacking.

 

And that is primarily how it should act. There are examples where someone has posted an appeal and we said "Oops sorry, you are right. You are now unbanned" but that does not happen often as the staff and the autoban system are not only consistent but fair in giving bans.

Regarding the particular case that spurred this thread, Jordy recently tried to circumvent his ban not once, but multiple times. He only dug himself into a deeper hole.

 

I'd venture a guess that it's more because he really misses playing with his former friends and not to attempt to hack the server more, unlike most players who attempt to evade bans.

I don't know the guy at all, really, so I'm just here to say this; in the case of criminals who have been jailed, the ones who are released after "rehabilitation" follow two paths; either they become straight and never pose a full threat to society again, or they revert immediately, break parole and end up right back in jail faster than they can say their own names. This parallels our current situation; the player was caught once in past. People seem to believe he made an honest, stupid decision that he regrets. If released, it is possible that he'll never harm the server again. Worst case scenario, he starts hacking again... but you caught him once already. Who's to say you can't do it again?

Just my two cents.

 

It does not matter why it was done, but the fact that it was done showing further disrespect for the rules.

 

This reminds me of one Jean Valjean.

Valjean was imprisoned for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving sisters children.
Jordy was banned for hacking even though he quit because he was bored and couldn't leave us.

Valjean tried to escape multiple times, thus enhancing his punishment.
Jordy evaded his ban making his situation worse.

Valjean became bitter and hated the power system.
After being rebuffed Jordy will become bitter. (Speculating now.)

Valjean meets a bishop that changes his perspective on life.
Jordy will meet someone who will turn his hacking ways around.

Valjean tries to do what is right but can't run from his past.
Jordy will never be able to run from the baggage of hacking.

SPOILER ALERT
Valjean dies.
Jordy will eventually die.

It totally works right? Riiiight?

 

John, you can say this with a straight face? REALLY???

Spoiler

 

I forgot I need to tiptoe and be very precise with my responses otherwise I get sly responses like this one: the staff and the autoban system are not only consistent but fair in giving bans related to hacking.

 

What exactly is unfair about banning a guy who hacked?

Anyways if he really wants to play Royals again, he can buy a new computer, switch to a different internet provider and start over from scratch. And this time, don't go blabbing about how he's back and announce to the world how he cleverly bypassed a ban. Just become a new person. And don't hack.

I agree with those who say reversing a ban on an admitted hacker would set a bad precedent.

 

I don't know who this guy is, but I don't see why he should be unbanned on special circumstances just because he is a long time player who is friends with much of the community. That would be unfair to everyone else who has hacked and hasn't been given a second chance.

In fact, I think it's more reason to keep someone like that banned. He knew the people here and how enjoyable the server could be and with that in mind he still hacked knowing full well that the consequences were a permanent ban.

I vote no to special case by case unbannings of hackers. The only people who should be unbanned are those who were wrongfully banned in the first place, not those who have simply changed their minds and want to start fresh. If you want to play here don't hack. Ever.

 

Even though I'm very sad (although not surprised) that Jordy remains perma-banned, in a more general sense, I'm relieved and glad that the admin have upheld and stuck to the rule that a permanent ban for hacking does indeed equal a permanent ban. It's better to go that way than make special exceptions and give rise to accusations of bias/favouritism and unfairness.

I'm just sad that Jordy was dumb enough to play around with hacks and desperate enough to ban evade - he was a fun and likeable guy to have around, and I do genuinely believe that the hacking was a one-off.

 

First of Grey, welcome to MapleRoyals. I don't want to be rude, but what exactly has your question to do with me? I'm asking since you're quoting me and I haven't said anything about this particular ban.

My personal opinion on permanent bans (for any in game related reason) in general is, ban the person for a few months, maybe at least half a year, and then release the ban and give him/her a second chance. If the person "misbehaves" again then ban him/her forever. I do believe in second chances because, come on, lets not pretend like we are all saints here ok, most of us have either hacked or taken advantage of/abused some sort of bug/glitch/service at some point in our Maple life...

About my comment, maybe I need to clarify it wasn't aimed at John. Even though I often can't stand your square robotic black&white mentality John (no right or wrong here, just personality clash), you are pretty consistent, you do put in a lot of hard work (it don't go unnoticed), the server has improved (even thought I don't know the specifics, I would say a lot) since you got on board and MR and Matt are better out with you on the team.

I just don't feel it's honest pretending all GMs are consistent and professional in their operating and decision taking when some have clearly showed they aren't. This even applies to the forum. Don't think I have forgotten getting infractions on the forum and getting threatened to be banned for breaking (still) non-existent forum rules.

 

Saki, let the past stay in the past lol. Everyone makes mistakes- GMs included :> It's only human to randomly have a non-professional moment sometimes. (I mean they aren't mechanical robots...)

Forgive n forget pl0xxxxx

Now LUBS. <3

Sorry Jordy if you're reading this- I was hoping that one day your ban would expire after an indeterminate period of time (sort of like going to prison and then being relased after a period of time) but as it is- you really should have thought before you acted.
Let's move on- I apologize for causing any kind of conflict by posting this thread; I just wanted to see if any chance existed that the noob bishop with the ton of secondary characters who kept dying at Zak could ever return just to say hi to us again :>

 

Zzz...

It's funny how banning hackers permanently is all good until someone you know is banned for hacking.

It's not like Jordy didn't know about the rules. I am (so far) super bored post-wipe too, I didn't turn to hacking. I just log on, socialise in FM then get bored and log off.

Your actions always have consequences that you have to face, this incident - or hacking incidents in general - is no different.