Soul arrows was changed in update #73.3 to work like shadow stars, which sparked a discussion amongst the archers. Most of the discussion took place in this thread, with some players satisfied about the change and some dissatisfied, wanting a revert, and the discussion went on for awhile before it ultimately ended with the decision to revert the change in update #75 which imo was a premature decision since there is a potential solution to appease both side. That discussion thread has been closed due to the request of its OP, and can't be reopened so i made a new thread to continue the discussion (2 years too late maybe ). Due to the revert, max quantity size of arrows/bolts have been increased as a compensation which is basically a free QOL without the user needing to put in more effort, just more mesos spent on purchasing arrows. I honestly think the whole concept of managing your ammo quantity via a skill would have been more meaningful. As Matt has pointed out, it's not possible to combine both mechanics of that iteration of souls arrow and the nostalgic one into a single skill, So my proposal is to change max level of soul arrows from 20 to 10, and add another skill that was the intended new soul arrows (for simplicity sake and to prevent confusion, let's just call it spirit arrows for now). Meaning, there will be two skills, soul arrows and spirit arrows, both having a max level of 10, Soul arrows would function the way it is now, 0 arrows required, 0 att bonus regardless of type of arrows in inventory, grants infinite ammo and lasts 10 minutes at max level 10; Spirit arrows would function like it did in update 73.3, requiring 200 arrows per cast to provide infinite ammo, att bonus granted is based on the type of arrows in inventory and lasts 200 secs at max level 10. Both skills are unique to their own, and only one can be active at a time (Paladin's element charges work like that). As in the old discussion thread, there were mixed reactions from the changes, and from what i've read and understand, Players that were against the change was because they didn't want to deal with managing arrows in their inventory, and those that enjoyed the change was because it dramatically reduced the amount of arrow sets they'd have to carry around, hence why i think my proposed solution would actually satisfy both sides. I'm posting a new thread for this specifically because i think while the current [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing thread serves as a informative conglomerate of many feedbacks, a single feedback can easily get overlooked due to the sheer amount of feedbacks and it's not exactly the best place for a lengthy focused discussion. I'm interested to know what are the players' thoughts on my suggestion, especially from the archers playerbase! Thanks everyone for reading.
After owning rechargeable arrows and not using Soul Arrows for once (VL only) I can speak a bit on this topic from MM pov. I don’t even use one entire stack of VL arrows in VL, I use around 4000-5000/6000. MM should always be prioritizing mobs when theyre up, Pierce Arrow takes only 1 arrow for the 2-3secs it takes to charge+shoot that skill. I’m not against BMs getting buffs but want staff to know. If you revert soul arrows to that last version, that only helps really one class of bowmen. The one that eats 7-8 stacks of arrows in HT, not the one that uses 1-1.5 stacks. Even if you gave soul arrows 200 arrow cost for 6minutes, it would barely make a difference for MM players, infact, it would only help BMs more. I dont want staff to improve/revert soul arrows and call it a bowmen class buff
Thanks for pointing that out, i think though, it's because of the compensated increased quantity size of quivers that VL arrows aren't that sought after and therefore not as valuable as VL stars. -edit- i think i'm wrong about this, arrow consumption atm should be higher but dispels does not penalize as heavily as it would have. Also something to note; if arrow cap size were to be reverted back to 2k and soul arrows were to function like shadow stars, it would mean in any given time where dispel is not a factor, 1 set of 2k arrows can last up to 33 mins 20 seconds of gameplay, and refilling red/diamond arrows would cost only 80k mesos per set (40 x 2000). Currently it costs 200k to refill one set of arrows (40 x 5000). I'm not sure if the current 5k arrow per set is able to last 30 minutes for BMs, but it certainly costs more.
I've never liked the way Soul Arrow works. It's ten minutes of "I don't have to think about arrows at all." That's fine for some people, as they've pointed out in the old thread, but it's weird to me since I main a Night Lord. Imagine not having to consider throwing stars at all because of a hypothetical Soul Star skill. When I play my BM, I don't consider arrows to ever be a factor outside of events like Pierre where you are forced to use them. I think it's rather silly that a class that features ammo management can completely ignore ammo. And they can get away with it too, since red/diamond arrows only add 10 attack, which isn't as big of a deal on a BM/MM compared to 10 attack on a Night Lord. I still carry about six to eight stacks of arrows, but they almost never get used since Soul Arrow is way too convenient with a negligible drawback. I never got a chance to try the soul arrow changes back then, but I imagine it would have made me treat arrows in positive way instead of something I mostly ignore (especially when I end up with a bunch of them on one of my other characters and can transfer them to my BM). Again, this is speaking as an NL main who already deals with throwing stars. I can't sympathize with any of the complaints I've seen since I already deal with those things and still sleep soundly at night. But maybe I'm a total nutcase since I don't think star recharge prices are too high, unlike some other NLs. I'd welcome Spirit Arrow with Soul Arrow as a backup "oops, I forgot to get more arrows" option. People who don't like arrows can keep using Soul Arrow. I'd probably want more varieties of arrows available in stores (not new ones, just existing ones added to more places), but even adding Spirit Arrow with no other changes would be good enough to me. Spoiler Unhinged thoughts follow. Don't take them too seriously: People say stuff like "I don't want to carry arrows." Well I don't want to have 28 stacks of stars, but I do. That's overkill but my stars don't stack to 5000. What else are you carrying on your BM/MM that means you can't spare a few slots for ammo? Is this your scroll mule? Why are you playing a mule? Don't say it's potions, because I only have about 300-400 of elixirs/PEs and I do just fine. They also say stuff like "I don't want to pay for arrows." As lxlx pointed out, it's 200k mesos for a stack of red/diamond arrows. That's the cost of a single ilbi recharge, which only lasts 10 minutes. 200k is peanuts when you can farm equips that NPC for more than that in high-level areas. What about "I have to travel so far to buy arrows"? You can buy arrows in any town and they drop from plenty of enemies. Reds are farmable in Showa which can be accessed from anywhere, and steels are farmable from lantern ghosts in Mushroom Shrine. If you don't want to do that, don't use the best arrows. NLs face a similar issue with the best throwing stars, which is why I don't use them. This might be a dumb idea, but what if all arrows were rechargeable like throwing stars are? A single red arrow quiver would last FIFTY MINUTES if treated like a throwing star, and could be refilled easily at vendors. Would you complain then?
Good takes overall, the existence of soul arrow is weird. The wa upgrade isn’t enticing enough to keep off 100% of the time, 10wa (realistically most archers dont use vl arrows) vses hwabis for example which are 27 wa I believe? Unfortunately 300-400 pe/elixirs last a lot longer on NL/shad than any other class. Wish we had more rechargeable lower wa arrows instead, lets say 5-8WA. Main issue is having to grab them each time at nlc/showa, further de incentivizing players to turn off soul arrows. Their original token of teamwork rework teaser photo showed new arrows. I thought theyd release a new recharge arrow but they were scrapped entirely, can staff comment on this? Also my inventory for example: The only ridiculous thing really are the ciders and need for 1000 sunset dews lol. I could easily hold 6-8 more stacks of arrows but currently I've only been rose gardening due to lack of playing time. Not having to leave the map is pretty nice. I don't want to spend the 600k to recharge my VL arrows or leave RG and have to rock/VL scroll+walk back from Showa. So I just soul arrows the entire content for record.
My vote is no and I am against the change you want to make. BM and MM do not have an npc to reload arrows Also, von Leon's arrows are very expensive to manufacture and reload (sorry, I'm not rich in mesos)
What if we made new rechargeable arrows of a lower tier, let’s say 8WA. And we made those and VL quiver for bow cheaper. Why don’t we make recharging for bow arrows cheaper than xbow. Personally I’d love new recharge arrows and for bowmasters to be fairly compensated w theirs costing a lot less
But you'd still have soul arrows, it's not a rework of soul arrows, but the addition of an additional skill that functions like shadow claws, so if a player is used to playing without arrows, the player can still choose to use soul arrows. Nothing would change for players that has been relying on soul arrows for ammunition, they can still play the same exact way they are playing now. The addition of "spirit" arrows would however help the players that's been relying on high att arrows by making recharge/refill cheaper (if arrow capacity is reverted) and a set would last longer for them.
I really like the idea of having both skills. It has always seemed weird that I do not have to consider my arrows at all. I can literally carry 10 arrows and never run out taking up only 1 inventory slot. I have no motivation to get higher wa arrows because soul arrow will just negate the boost. If I had both skills I could use the wa buff at bosses and for everyday farming I could use the original.
10 weapon attack isn't motivating enough for you to use regular arrows, without using soul arrow? o.o
Considering it’s a class most people don’t care about optimizing damage and just vibing and happy to click SE, for most it is not. 10wa also doesn’t scale the same as it does for NLs/Sairs. On my BM not using Soul Arrow my critc hurricanes hit maybe 2-4k more each, not super impactful. You go from wolbi (17) to bfury (27?) you’ll hit on critc easily more than 5k more I’m pretty sure. Also arrows being unrechargable is very annoying.
