Not to start another controversial topic so soon but... But I've recently noticed people "selling" maps. I understand map ownership is a legitimate thing while you're using it, but are maps really yours to sell when you're done using it? Is it okay for people to just sort of, camp the map once they're done with it until someones willing to cough up 10-15m for it? And it just feels like, if I went to the park and got on the swing for an hour (other people can't use it while I'm using it), then got off, and then guarded the swing until someone pays up 5 bucks. But hey if this is legit, rather easy way to make money lol. I guess it could go both ways, could let the free market work and let people can sell maps. supply n demand. Thoughts? EDIT: Theres literally a smega debate going on right now lol
Ugh yessss +1. I've never quite understood this practice. It just seems ridiculous to me — what, you're going to stay there longer than you originally planned just because you can't find a buyer instead of doing whatever you were originally going to do? I think people should just leave if they're done, or maybe smega that there's a free map or give it to a friend. Mapowner is meant to protect you from ks-ers with mean intentions, not to give people a product to sell. EDIT: To clarify, I don't think this requires GM intervention or anything. I just think it should be one of those community mutual respect social rules that are just naturally implied or something. I also don't think it happens often enough to actually warrant GM intervention. It's mostly something that makes me roll my eyes when I see it in smegas because I think it is rather ridiculous and honestly, a little miserly.
I dont like map selling , but if you want the benefits of mapowner as it stands I can't see an easy way around this. Other then potentially just implementing a rule saying you cant sell maps. But that would potentially put a workload on the GM's that are already spreading their time pretty thin. Another option would be to just remove map owner altogether. I always thought KS wars and the like back in the day were fun. It would start with 1 person ksing another and end with 2 full guilds running around the map spamming skills. This would eliminate the map selling issue. side note: This could also potentially deal with the leeching issue that you made a thread about last night as leech sellers would no longer be able to guarantee xp to their buyers due to the potential of them being ks'd. That said, I don't think the GM's or even a lot of the players on the server agree with me there, so that probably isn't going to happen. I do agree with Penny, I don't think it was their intention to give people a product to sell. If you are of the opinion that you don't want ksing to be possible on the server, then dealing with map sellers on occasion is probably worth it to gain the benefit of not being ks'd. Unless someone smarter than me has an idea to alter mapowner, and eliminate selling without opening up other issues it seems like the tradeoff is worth it for you guys that just want to grind in peace.
Yeah, I mean, taking a totally objective view here, this was bound to happen. With current set up where you can do ~mapowner, it essentially makes it so you can take a map (a public good if you will) and make it exclusive. And infringing on that is bannable. The buying and selling of maps was inevitable. As I see it, there are three solutions... The easy one; Make attempting to buy and sell maps a bannable offense.Or, not so easy as enforcing this would be about as hard as enforcing a ban on the L-word. The hard one, that has been discussed forever and the "real" cause of the problem, the lack of other good places to grind/leech at. Or, simply let people buy and sell maps (I don't think this is a good call in the long run). If I had it my way, let the KS wars begin but that's never gonna happen
I'm fine with people selling maps and staying in the map for long periods of time to guard it. They get a little bit of profit. And if nobody buys, then the camper will probably lower their price or leave. If the camper stays in the map for long periods of time while still attacking and maintaining map ownership, he/she is losing out. They just traded hours of their time for potentially 10mill and thats if they get a buyer.
I really don't see the problem with selling maps. In my experience, map selling has never risen to the level of interfering with my ability to find a map. Personally, I may think it's a little rude. But does that mean that I think that it requires GM intervention? Absolutely not. Map selling doesn't occur that often and usually only on the most popular map (skeles). It's really not much different from selling a fm spot, except in this case, as kruzynn said, the person is actively wasting their time while hoping for a buyer. If someone chooses to waste their time like that, that is their prerogative. And if someone wants to spend their money on a map, that is also their prerogative.
This post is pretty much my thoughts on the the topic too. It's not efficient to sit around and waste time holding a map for 10m for more than about 10mins anyway, you'd literally have been better off farming for those 10mins and making the same money in drops. If you're really desperate for a map, maybe you want to pay the 10m to get the map, but I feel like that'd be kind of rare.
i feel that it is only okay to sell a map if there is someone wanting to buy it. wait hear me out like it is fine if someone is like B> skele map 15mil and you sell it but it is not fine if you go around broadcasting S> skele map 15mil when there are people waiting to use your map thus, making buying maps when its really urgent more 'socially acceptable' (some people might not have the whole day to play) while ensuring there are minimal map hoggers and profiters i think this makes it really fair. any comments?
Quoting myself below from a really old thread, I completely agree. I know that it's not against the rules but I personally frown upon those who actively try to sell maps. It just seems extremely wrong to me that instead of just leaving a popular map, people choose to profit off of the fact that they "own" the map when that's far from the intended purpose of the command. Even ignoring the ~mapowner command, I don't change my view on the situation. It just doesn't sit well with me that people try to profit off of other's map desperation when they're clearly done with it anyway. http://royals.ms/forum/threads/map-selling.10013/page-2#post-51412
I agree with the buying of maps a bit different, I guess the end result is the same but somehow it feels different to me. I was at skeles the other night, still using the map, and a guy comes to the map asking if he can have it. I tell him he can have it when I'm done for free, which would be pretty soon, but he insisted that if he could have it right now, he would pay me 20m. Can't lie I took the offer lol.
Just lost a friend because of this issue. I got mad that he was selling the skele map because I honestly detest map sellers regardless of who it is. I remember smegaing that I'm selling a skele map as a complete joke but I still kinda hated myself after I smega'ed that. Isn't maps part of the game? I wish map selling would be illegal like the top server right now, I'm sure you know. In general, map selling shows a person in a negative light, because they'd do such things just for a little bit of money. Once, I was looking for a skele map to grind with a bishop friend, asked if they were using the map and they said they were leaving soon. Once it was their time to leave, they gave us the map for free. I felt really grateful because I didn't have to pay for the map as I was short on money. At the same time, it made me feel like shit precisely because I'm actually grateful that someone's giving me skele map for free, when it should have been free of access to everyone in the game. But map selling occurs so often that I'm really grateful for a free map, which is actually a sad example of how the general community is like at the moment. Everyone's so crazy for money. Well, who isn't? I'm crazy for money as well but I honestly wouldn't stoop that low. I personally wish map selling would be forbidden because it degrades the community in general in my opinion. On two different occasions, I owned a skele map. The first time, I gave away the map for free to a stranger that asked. When I heard those words of gratefulness, it filled my heart with happiness somehow. On the second occasion, I tried selling a map as a prank but when someone offered me a trade and put in 10M, I honestly felt like complete shit lol. Why can't people give the map away when they're done with it? Why's it all about the damn money, lol. I'm poor right now but I gave away a 116 atk sparta to someone new, and probably giving away my 119 attack sparta soon because to you pros, my shit swords wouldn't be worth shit but to newbies, it's a huge gift and motivation to play. I personally was given a 97 atk glory sword and 16 attack shield by someone who was almost a complete stranger at that time, and it really motivated me to play. I did the same thing later on, giving away a shield I bought with 100m when I was new, to a guildie. The words he said and the feeling I got were honestly worth more than any mesos I could get from selling the shield. Really sad about how things work nowadays, had to kind of rant it out. Well seems I got carried away. Not sure if any of you would get what I said, lol. I'd probably get insulted or flamed here or in-game by saying this. >_>
Your comparison with the swing is invalid. People buy the map because they'll end up profiting from it. If I buy a skele map for 10 m and decide to stay for an hour I make 65m from leech and 20m from loots. Thats 75 mil profit after paying 10 mil for the map. The swing of yours isnt going to make me any richer. There are lots of swings in Mapleroyals. There are profitable swings for a reason which is why people dont mind paying for it.
A real world comparison is the selling of parking spots. People were selling parking spots (with an app) in places like San Francisco and New York, and the government said no, you can't do that, because it's public property. I think the same thing applies here. The maps are public, open to everyone, and they shouldn't be selling it.
But on the contrary, you've ~mapowner and it pretty much explains itself (although I'm on your side, but cold hard truth is the cold hard truth).
My issue with this isn't the profitability or not of this practice, or if other people are willing to pay for it. My issue is that I don't believe it's a good that people have the right to sell in the first place OR that they should sell in the first place. A map doesn't "belong" to anyone. Yes, you have the right to not get ks'd when you're training there, but your map owner shouldn't give you the rights to it for eternity. Using the parking space and swing examples (though yes, they're poor examples), you have the right to not get pushed off your swing or idk have your car illegally towed while you're using it, but you don't "own" either thing. Chances are, you got the map because you happened upon an open map. Now you're going to turn around and sell it to someone when you're done because you just happened to get there first? I can perhaps understand selling to someone who offers you money while you're still using it, and you take the money and give the map. I just cannot understand someone selling a map when they're done with it. That seems ridiculously selfish to me. It's saying "I'm done with this, and I won't use it anymore, but 'm going to stay here and make sure Nobody else used it either, even though it literally would have no effect on me if they did."
Alright so at this point I hear many people who are upset because selling a map elis a thing that can be done. That's fine, I get that. What can we do to fix this? As you all know, right now we use ~mapowner as an absolute. There is no attacking monsters on a map that you do not have ownership of. Therefore, if a person wanted to advertise that they're selling the rights to transfer that map, who would be able to stop them, without removing the right to their map? It simply doesn't sit right with me to have staff policing what people do with the maps they're on. Are we to make map holding against the rules as well? Holding a map by hanging from the rope and periodically jumping off to attack a mob once retain map ownership is perfectly fine at the moment. At this point, what I'm asking everyone who has posted that they think it's wrong to sell a map, is how would you solve this issue? Map ownership needs to remain absolute. We cannot ban players for asking for money in exchange for an action, nor can we punish for it. Since there is clearly support for a method of disallowing this, I'd like to actually have a meaningful method of of doing just that. Spoiler: Selfish Players MapleStory by default is made of selfish people doing selfish things. Is it not selfish to make people pay to come on boss runs to loot Zakum Helmets, Skillbooks, HTPs, Eggs that would otherwise quite literally be of no use to anyone on the run? These items literally disappear if there is no looter. We charge low level players money to come and loot them. Is that not selfish too? What about being a merchant? Is it not selfish to purchase someone's underpriced item to resell it for a higher price and make money off of that player's pricing mistake? Selfishness is a part of this game, and a large part of making money in general, unless you're solely a meso farmer. Selling things that are of no use to us anymore is what we do with everything else in the game. I don't see why a player shouldn't be allowed to sell their map if they so choose; if you think that that's a scumbag thing to do, then that's your opinion of a player who may be just as nice and helpful of a player as you are, just maybe one who's a little bit more of a capitalist than you, and of course, nobody is forcing you to purchase a map to use, you're still totally able to find one normally like the vast majority of us have been doing for the past two years.
I still stand by what I said in my original post. I don't think this should actually get GM intervention because: 1) I can't think of a viable, fair method that isn't a massive waste of GM time or doesn't interfere with map owner 2) I don't think it should actually be bananable because it's just dickish behavior, not actually ban-deserving (imo) 3) I really don't think it happens often enough to warrant it. From what I've seen, most people in this server are kind and generous enough to not participate in this type of behavior. I'm not asking for the people who do to get punished or anything because I agree — it's not mine or anyone else's place to tell someone what they can or can't do with their map. But they should also understand that it's kind of a dick move, and maybe they'll stop doing it. That's all. (Maybe I'm just too naive and idealistic, who knows) Spoiler: re: selfish players I think there's a huge difference between selling a map and selling those items (even items that will disappear because nobody needs them) because in reality, you're selling a service with those items, not the items themselves. Just like bishops who charge people for leech, even though having someone else in their party actually benefits them for the HS exp, these people are providing the service of killing the actual boss. They are helping these low-level players who literally have no way of doing it themselves (find me a level 50 character who can kill Zakum). If you don't want to give away your loots because you can't find a buyer, that's your prerogative — you're killing the boss, and you're not obligated to give out loots if you don't want to do it for free. I think that's comparable to selling your map to someone who's offering while you're still planning on using it. I don't think it's comparable, though, to selling map when you're already planning on leaving. I don't think we'd call anyone in the real world who sells or re-sells their own private things selfish (say, concert tickets or etc), even if they have no use for those items themselves. But I think I'd call someone who sells a public (free) parking space in New York City pretty selfish.
Its the greed that bothers me more than anything. I understand its a video game and not everyone plays the same way I play. I understand meso is what allows players to do more in game. And i wouldnt say I havent been greedy about certain things before. But the idea that selling a map for pretty hefty prices just irks me. The maps that are being sold are also popular leech maps. You cant argue that. And the person whose selling probably has already sold leech for large sums of meso. So ontop of being paid to leech someone, you are now selling the map. The best way to combat the selling of maps is to make more maps equal in training speed. The only reason maps can be sold currently is the lack of options. Make more maps have the same rates as the maps that are being sold, and you'll have more maps with less demand and less players looking to sell.
Well, I read in the news of the newsource that they are implementing minidungeons for the popular training spots, so that should be enough to stop the map selling, all we need is just wait patiently a bit more, correct me if I'm wrong about the minidungeons.
