Closed Shout box appeal

Discussion in 'Ban Appeal' started by Gifflar, Dec 24, 2025 at 7:36 AM.

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  1. Gifflar
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    Gifflar Donator

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    ALL Your Character Names: Gifflar
    Last thing you did: write in shout box
    Why do you think you got banned?: @Dave Deviluke dont like me being ironic so he found a rule saying that being toxic isnt allowed.
    Ban message when attempting to log in: Your shoutbox message(s) does not follow reasonable forum etiquette and a shoutbox ban was given.
    What GM banned you (optional): Dave
     
  2. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    Hello, the shoutbox ban was not issued because I "found a rule", nor was it about disliking irony.

    This is based on an existing Staff stance that was already communicated publicly. As stated in the following forum post:
    https://royals.ms/forum/threads/clarification-on-positive-helpful-criticism.190035/

    Your shoutbox remarks repeatedly used sarcasm and personal jabs directed at a named Staff member, rather than constructive or good-faith criticism about the game or its direction. That is why action was taken.

    Hope this clarifies why the shoutbox ban was issued.
     
  3. Gifflar
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    Gifflar Donator

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    Here let me give you some background to the reasoning to why I am being ironic. I could say 'staff' when saying what I said, but that just wouldn't be the truth since, the staff team (meaning GMs and Admins) is doing their job. So saying staff as a collective group and using criticism just wouldn't be right to me. This is about our Server Owner, who is after all, overall responsible for the progress of this server.

    My comment "Thank you for the bug fixes" was about the fact that barely anything is being done to improve the server what so ever. Countless of members have commented "good faith criticism" for years, and we are sick of pretty much nothing being done in terms of bug fixing and content we actually want. Hence why, irony is used nowadays. My comment was about the direction (or rather lack of direction) of the server since barely no bugs is being fixed. The staff (Im explicitly pointing out our Server Owner since he, again, is overall responsible for the server and because the rest of the GMs and Admins is doing their part afaik) keep over promising and under delivering. Would it be better if I said "Aw, no bug fixes this time either"?

    Our Server Owner has been online twice in like what, 6-7 weeks, both of which to fix the server when it went down. Most likely he wouldn't have been online at all if it wasnt because of the crashes. Hence why the "can go back to sleep". Would it been better if I said "go back to your real life duties"?

    This awesome community and dedicated members grind, donate and hope year in and year out to get something they actually want like class balance, PB and bug fixes. Yet our Server Owner decides for example, after Zancks leaving to add a skill balancer who has been online 2(?) times this year, probably never done VL, and doesnt comment the feedback section, atleast not within a year.

    I have friends who applied for developers to help with bug fixing, yet no one has replied to their applications for months. Not even a simple no.

    These are only some of examples, I can give you 20 more examples if you want to make you understand why I've been using sarcasm instead of banging my head against a wall trying to provide "good faith criticism".

    Yes I know this is a private server and we (me) can simply leave if we don't like it. But as I've said countless of times before, I do actually like this community. I rather try to get our Server Owner to realise that the community isnt satisfied with nothing but the hopes and prayers that sometime, probably around 2035, we will get something we actually hoped for (am I still allowed to use sarcasm?).

    Hope this clarifies why I was using sarcasm when mentioning a staff member in my totally none harmful comment.

    Edit: Merry Christmas!
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2025 at 10:15 AM
  4. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    I understand that you are frustrated with the pace of development, communication, and the overall direction of the server. Those concerns are not new, and criticism about them is allowed.

    That said, frustration or past dissatisfaction does not change the standard for how criticism is expressed.

    Regardless of whether you refer to Staff as a whole or a specific individual, sarcasm and mockery directed at a named Staff member crosses the line into personal and demeaning commentary. Comments such as "you may now go back to sleep", speculation about someone’s real-life availability, or framing inactivity as laziness are not good-faith criticism. Rewording them slightly would not change that.

    To be clear, concerns like yours can be expressed constructively. For example:

    "Bug fixes and new content have been moving very slowly. Some clarity on what is actually being worked on would help."

    "There has been little to no progress on Pink Bean, balance changes, or long-standing bugs. Is there a plan or rough timeline for these?"

    You are free to criticize:
    • Lack of bug fixes or content progress
    • Communication gaps
    • Development priorities or decision-making
    You are not free to:
    • Use sarcasm or irony to mock an individual (harassment)
    • Speculate about personal life or motives (unnecessary)
    • Direct repeated personal remarks at a named Staff member (or other forum members)
    This is not about suppressing criticism or defending any individual. It is about enforcing the distinction between criticism of the game or its direction, and personal remarks toward Staff(s).

    The explanation you provided clarifies why you are frustrated, but it does not change why the shoutbox ban was issued.

    We appreciate your support for the server, and we ask that it be expressed without personal attacks toward any Staff member.

    This is a personal comment from me, not an official Staff response.

    Yes, some Staff members are busy at times, whether that is Matt, Tim, or other GMs. In those situations, there are different ways to respond. I can either remind other Staff about pending tasks and help where I can as a Forum Mod, or I can choose to agitate the situation by making demeaning remarks and calling others lazy or unhelpful.

    As a player myself, I try to support Royals in constructive ways, whether that is helping other players resolve issues or assisting Staff to reduce their workload where possible.

    I understand why you are frustrated and why you made those comments. However, I do not see how making demeaning or personal remarks helps Staff in any way. The same applies here: consider how you would feel if I, or any other Staff member, responded to you with personal insults or attacks.
     
  5. Heidi
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    Heidi GM Intern

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    Given the amount of staff power abuse that has occurred in the past, Matt and Tim are understandably extremely reluctant to hire devs who they do not know very well already.

    Sure, it would be nice if people got a simple "no" to inform them that their application has been rejected, but this would use up admin time that could be put into useful tasks, and the rejected applicant would still probably want to know reasons for the rejection. The current system of not responding to rejected applicants is no different to the real world. Few companies bother to reach out to rejected job applicants.
     
  6. Gifflar
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    Mockery? The simple fact is that our server owner wasn’t online on the forums at all for 6-7 weeks (and those are only the weeks I checked; it was probably the same even before that). Me pointing out that fact isn’t about speculating on someone’s real-life availability as the numbers speak for themselves. I’m just highlighting it.

    If it were literally anyone else, I wouldn’t care at all. But we’re talking about the one person who can change the pace, direction, and quality of what comes next for this server and its community. Literally no one has a say unless he approves it. And you’re saying we can’t criticize that one person? That’s pure dictatorship to me. Because, as I said, I don’t think the staff as a whole does a bad job at all, or that they’re lazy, quite the opposite.

    Furthermore, if I had said “go back to bed” to anyone else (even mentioning their name) who hadn’t been online for, say, two weeks, I’m 99.99% sure I wouldn’t have been banned for that. That’s been done several times on the forums and nothing happened. This is simply about the fact that you don’t like the way I act and that you dislike me criticizing our server owner.

    @Dave Deviluke, are you for real? Is this kindergarden?

    This is the number one problem with this server. There’s barely any transparency whatsoever when it comes to ongoing projects, and that’s the way the “staff” team has always liked it, for a number of reasons. These questions have been asked throughout my 11-year history on this server and have never gotten a proper answer, and most likely never will.

    Do you actually think we would get an answer as to why Zancks finished suggestions for skill balance changes haven’t been implemented, even though he provided them to Matt and the devs in late 2023?

    I wasn't speculating in anyones personal life. The only thing I did was to say "Thanks for the new bug fixes and that you may now go back to sleep.", which was merely an highlighting the fact that our Server Owner barely been online for a month and a half (and probably more inactivity before that). That's not speculating in his personal life, that was me using sarcasm about the fact that nothing was fixed and no new content such as PB was released.

    If it were true, I’d take it on the chin and reflect on it, then change if I felt that public criticism was justified. If it wasn’t true, I’d still accept the consequences of being criticized. That’s part of putting yourself out there as a Server Owner/CEO/Chairman.

    Yes, I’m aware of the history of power abuse by some ex-staff. And what was the main reason behind what they did? Transparency, or rather, the lack of it.

    Also, thanks for pointing that out. Because in a company, if a CEO or Chairman of the Board goes missing for more than a month and a half, there would definitely be questions asked, both internally and externally. I've asked members of the staff if they knew anything about our Server Owner or why events were delayed and they hadn't heard anything.

    And no, I don’t agree with you. Even with jobs I’ve applied for, I’ve always at least received an automatic reply saying something like, “We’ve decided to move forward with other applicants, thank you bla bla bla…” A simple no would be sufficient. If they ask more questions, then you ignore them. If they don't even reply with automatic an reply, that simply says how little they care about you.

    Since you brought it up, @Heidi, why do Royals even have an application section if they only hire people they “know very well”? That just makes it feel like a façade meant to look good.

    EDIT: And how do you guys think anything will change in the future when you have a near impossible time to hire new Devs based on what Heidi said. Doesn't matter how many essays Donn1e (or anyone else for that matter) puts up in the bug section if there's no one who fixes them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2025 at 10:06 PM
  7. Heidi
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    Heidi GM Intern

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    I appreciate that to a player, it might appear that Matt has abandoned us all. However, this is not true at all. Like everybody else here, Matt has a life outside of Royals, and sometimes life has other things that need attention.

    Although Matt has obviously not been able to prioritize things like timely events recently, he has still been around in the background, ensuring the server continues to run. Keeping the server running is not as simple as purchasing server hosting, uploading the code to it, executing a run command, and then disappearing for a couple of months. Stuff breaks, and unexpected things come up. If Matt had truly abandoned us, we'd be dealing with endless lengthy downtimes. Its just the non urgent stuff that has been pushed back a bit.

    We all respond like this, because we do not wish to engage in these conversations, and especially not with those who tend to repeatedly complain about staff. The events were late, but we knew they'd happen eventually, and answering your questions was not going to make it happen any quicker.

    Describing Matt as a dictator is just comical to me, because it is just completely untrue.

    Anyway, we do not owe you answers, and your appeal is denied, so we're done here. Dave has made it clear what needs to happen before your shoutbox permissions are restored, and the rest of the team agrees with him. Therefore, you can make another appeal when you're ready to reflect constructively on the situation.
     
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