I had noticed a couple of threads recently in the 'Report Abuse' section which concerned me a little. I've never been banned before and I don't plan to be but these reports show how easily people can report you for seemingly nothing and you end up getting banned for it. Not sure how everyone else feels but I'd be quite devasted if that happened to me. I know you can appeal against a decision but that takes time for someone to check it out and deal with it if only the GM had looked at the evidence infront of them properly. The threads I talk about are: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/report-ksing-and-botting.55139/ https://royals.ms/forum/threads/report-on-pigggy.55426/ I know John had revised his decision and the accused individual was unbanned which is fab but with the banning of pigggy following that it made me worry that it could easily happen to anyone. Now this isn't a poke at staff for not doing their jobs properly, I know what great work you guys do and I and many others really appreciate it but I don't want to be worrying about dcing, lagging out, crashing or just plain old afking to find the next time I try to log in I'm banned! Is it too much to make sure the accused has been doing some sort of activity on the map after being asked to leave?
Although probably an unpopular opinion, I agree with you to an extent. I have multiple views on this. On one hand, it scares me how many maplers out there have bad intentions. I've been threatened countless times by people saying they'll get me banned for almost no reason. I'm sure that there are people that would go out their way to fabricate conditions to make it seem like someone else deserves a ban. It's gotten to the point to where I sometimes don't even want to interact with others in the community, especially popular maplers with influence, because of that fear of being constantly under watch and pressure. I often have to screenshot everything I say and do to make sure I have evidence in the case that someone takes something out of context. On the other hand, many of the reported abusers could have easily avoided their bans. The rules aren't as outrageous as some make it to be. It's relatively easy to not harass others, share accounts, or continue attacking in someone's map. It's really not worth the ban when someone can just cc or wait for another boss to spawn. I just try to remember that the GMs are only human. They have an insane amount of workload, and sometimes mistakes may happen. I just wish some of the maplers in the community weren't so eager to try and get people banned if they don't have it their way all the time.
I find it quite hard to compare these two scenarios since they're different. In the first report there is a reason why it got revised for multiple reasons. A reason was that summoning skills (atleast bahamut) & buff skills does not update the ~mapowner timer, which could then mean that he summoned bahamut and proceeded to go afk untill it was about to expire. In the meantime the reporter came in, hit once & took the map from him and mapownered thrice (~90s) while he was still being afk. Most people presses on bahamut every ~160s. Therefore, there is lack of evidence of him ksing on purpose and there is lack of evidence incase he would be botting (as it requires you to ss before and after recast with ~servertime to distinguish if he actually resummoned without responding.) tl:dr, needs more evidence of him actually breaking the rule(s). In the second report, I do not think that the gm was quick too ban, rather that the rule should be revised. Many of us do agree (including myself) that this rule needs to be remade for different reasons, which we should discuss about in here. A player being afk has been reported for being in somebody else's map, however since they were afk for a longer period of time, they did not recieve any punishment. But in here we can see that the player was dead, meaning that he could not interact with the map, thus making him unable to killsteal and to lootsteal. (he did not have a pet up) So why is he actually forced to leave? What kind of damage can he do? Refusal of leaving the map due to not listening to the mapowner could be a valid reason but it shouldn't be a valid reason. Why? Because who knows what the offender is experiencing? In his ban appeal he both states that he did 1. lag 2. does not speak english very well, so why would these two points be a reason of him receiving a 3 days ban? 1. Failure to understand english should not be a reason to get banned, unless if the reporter uses common maplestory termionology such as cc whether you want someone to leave. 2. Being dead with no possible way to intrract with the map (like an active pet with petloot) shouldn't warrant a ban, as there is no way for the offender to do anything other than to chat. These are just my thoughts though, feel free to correct me if im wrong.
The problem with people being eager to get others banned is perpetuated with how the rules are enforced. People see the Report Abuse section and how so many people get banned from it so they think they can just report someone to get them banned. One PS I played years ago had absolutely no enforcement of its rules, and guess what? People didn't jump to saying "Cc or report" and usually just let things go. Reporting, or the threat thereof, has almost become a form harrassment itself. We've created a culture of "rule by fear" that many could reasonably consider draconian. I don't think it is, but to dismiss those who do is to ignore a larger problem. Interestingly enough, rules 5 and 8, the KSing and harrassment rules respectively, say nothing about staying in someone's map. 5. Engage in rude, unlawful, harassing, vulgar, obscene, hateful, threatening, abusive or otherwise objectionable behavior, including, without limitation, looting, kill stealing, making sexual comments;Punishment: 1st offence - 3 day ban, 2nd offence - 7 day ban, 3rd offence - permanent ban 8. Transmit any content that is unlawful, harassing, vulgar, obscene, hateful, fraudulent, threatening, abusive, libelous, defamatory, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable, or that could be deemed to be stalking or constitute an invasion of a right of privacy of another person. Punishment: 1st offence - 3 day ban, 2nd offence - 7 day ban, 3rd offence - permanent ban In the second ban appeal the person reported, according to the letter of the law, did not break the rules. The rule doesn't say that you must do everything the map owner tells you. In some cases the person reporting could actually be considered the one who broke the rule. It's not uncommon for someone to threaten to report or be very rude to someone looking for a map. If we read the rules literally that could be considered engaging in rude and threatening behavior. It is very disheartening to enter a map and immediately become bombarded with requests to CC. Especially if you landed on a monster and need to "catch your breath" before you can CC, or you're having a conversation in another chat. Not allowing people to just sit in a map while doing nothing is a very dangerous and detrimental precedent to set.
One reason that I've started physically removing people who state that they just want to afk on another person's map is because I've had it happen in past, more than once, where a player says that, I click into Hide, and they immediately start KSing, thinking that they can get away with it. It's for little things like that that make me as a responding GM ask a player to leave a map outright rather than just allowing them to stay where they are. Just some perspective on why we've started doing things like this. Good discussion so far; I'm interested in what other people have to say.
I had situation where my friend went to look for Manon and cced on map someone was killing already. She was telling me in bl that she couldn't find any map while the attacker was spaming her "CC" "I will report you" "I will ~gm" she didnt hit any monster, she was there like 3 seconds bcuz she was talking to me in buddy list. She was telling that guy to calm down and then gm came (guy used gm command) and gm said: "Why u even gmed ? she didnt hit any monster" Of course she was asked to leave. By this short example I want to show u guys how people feel power because of "map owner" thing. I'm not saying it's wrong bcuz without mapowner it would be so messy, I'm just trying to say how some people using it without any reason like some kids who can't deal with stuff by talking like mature people. I understand when someone ks u and u talking to him and asking to leave then sure report but some people just randomly reporting and gm has to ban bcuz it's the rule. I'm playing this server really long time (recently stopped) and I never ever reported anyone, and believe me I had many opportunities to do that. I even had time where one guy called me bitch, terrorist bcuz I'm muslim, that he would fk me and stuff. This was the only situation when i felt like reporting someone bcuz I easily could, but I didnt bcuz i realised i don't even care what some random person in game talking (later he got banned for something else anyway) I'm just trying to say dont ban without bigger reason be mature, banning someone is not only option because in real life u can't ban u have to deal with stuff even if u dont like it.
So after reading several threads. Especially this controversial one from the past, that seems to have led to rule changes: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/luckyloook-ks-repeatedly-and-timk-covering-up-player.25900/ Is it safe to assume that the current situation is: If you're map owner (normal or boss map, doesn't matter), regardless of how you got it or what happened, no one else is allowed to attack the monster(s) in your map. Even if the previous owner attacked a boss down to 10% hp and dced, then came back to have lost ownership. It doesn't matter. If they lost it, they lost it. Period. No exceptions for anyone. Whoever the command honors as owner, that's the owner. If the owner asks the attacking non-owner(s) to cc, they should, or risk getting banned. It seems in this situation that what would most likely happen in cases is that non-owners would get banned quickly, and have to make ban appeals. So yes, GMs would be quick to ban, but it would lead to less drama I would suppose.
leave mapleroyals already.. on another note. ive been banned many times for dumb things. rub the wrong people the wrong way and they will see to it youll get banned. its just the server sorry friend.
While decent points, I realized much later that he didn't have a pet out. Considering it was a manon map as well where many ksing incidents occur, perhaps I should have taken a closer look. Nonetheless, I have had people refuse to leave and refuse to stop ks'ing even when I showed up on my GM character and asked them to leave. I've had people be downright rude and continue to attack despite me asking on a GM characte. People have also pretended to be dead or afk, just to rush back to the map and attack the monsters as soon as the original mapowner dcs or dies. Just some of the reasons why we no longer allow people to "afk" in the map, like Mike mentioned before. Again, in this case, since it wasn't his pet in the map and he was dead, I agree that I was hasty about my decision which is why we unbanned him. However, there was also clear indication that he had attacked the map recently and stayed on the map which was what led to my decision, along with the fact that I didn't realize he had no pet out. I also don't think a lack of enforcement of the rules would work on our servers considering how many people there are. While I'm sure it worked to some degree @Rob, the more people there are the more likely it is that there will be a bad apple in the mix and some people just don't know what's appropriate and/or when to stop. On that note, I do want to remind everyone that reporting should be a last resort and things should be attempted to be remedied in game first.
I don't have any problem leaving a map once asked to leave, I even understand the reasons behind it which is fine but banning people when they haven't done anything just seems wrong to me. As Rob very kindly pointed out, there is nothing in the rules stating that we must leave a map once asked by the mapowner.
I completely understand @Michael and @Jeen's examples of people waiting till you turn your back to be assholes, but that doesn't mean we should punish everyone for the actions of a few douche bags. And I'm not for no enforcement in any way, just different enforcement, and more "Spirit of the Law" rather than letter (or non letter) of the law. (Also I didn't mean to pile on you at all Jeen sorry if it felt that way.) No u Mike
All good, I see a lot of good points here and I'm more than willing to take constructive criticism. That said, if they had actively attacked on the map and they were dead (but had a pet out like @Zynzer mentioned) I think it would have been okay to file it under a banworthy area because the pet will loot things even if the owner is dead. Looting is also technically a bannable offense and while I'm sure many people wouldn't try to report someone for dying on their map and accidentally looting a few etc pieces here and there, it is definitely bothersome in highly contested drops like manon crys. It's just hard to revise because making it too broad also makes it easy to abuse where as having super narrow specific situations won't cover all the basis so I look forward to what you guys think.
Couldn't there be something like a rule where you can't post fake reports or you get banned yourself? Like this guy from the report which was mentioned above: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/report-ksing-and-botting.55139/ He said he had been grinding in that map for a long time and suddenly that guy came in. Isn't that a lie since the other guy was unbanned?
To be honest, regarding how GMs are dealing the decisions on reports, seems pretty good to me because i've noticed in a few ocations people confessing that they were actually waiting (AFK) in a map for taking the ownership (stealing it). Anyway, it would help alot for, again, something like this: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/report-ksing-and-botting.55139/ if the ~mapowner command shows the server time, so activating it again after 1 or 2 minutes would proof if the person in the map cast the bahamut skill, when the owner was already there, as the OP said on it (Not sure why staying AFK on that map as a bishop and just spawning that skill isn't considerated as botting)
From the rules: Engage in robot play (i.e., "botting") or any other behavior that allows you (or any character you are controlling) to automatically function or effect any action in a game with or without your presence. Although summons attack, your character does not have to do anything in order to produce this function or effect, unlike (for example) if you put a rock on attack key in order to continuously attack. It's essentially like a buff, albeit one that attacks until it expires. It's like casting holy symbol and then afking. That's why it doesn't factor into mapowner, because it's not really an "attack." Thus, although the summon is attacking while you are not in its presence, your character itself is not actually producing any function or effect. It's like if you had your pet out with pet loot in fm and it loots something that someone dropped while you were afk. That's not botting, even though technically you somehow affected the game — it was your pet, not your character. In this case, it is the summon, not the character.
Can't Expect much of the robots who are running this server. They just follow their stupid "Rule Book".
I implore you to make an attempt to get to know some of them before making inflammatory remarks like this.
Its enough to look at the report section to know how they never use their head, and just follow the "rule book" when making their judgment
I know this is a feedback thread but I don't see any form of constructive criticism or feedback in your posts. This makes me question why you're posting here, as helping us improve is definitely not your intention. With that said I request of you to not post here if you have nothing useful to say, as it would be a shame if we'd have to close a decent feedback thread because of one person.
