So recently the crash got changed but it didn't really change much for Paladins since people can just make a crash mule and bring it instead I'd suggest giving total crash to Hero instead while Paladins will get the normal weapon def crash. You can also make the crash cost all of your combo orbs (similar to Panic or Enrage) and require ACA so it will prevent mules from using it (since it will take you a while to charge the orbs) . Instead Paladins will get a DPS buff like making blast faster (right now the max speed of blast is 0.63 sec, maybe buff it to 0.57 sec) This way warriors will be more balanced with Drk having HB+good multi target damage, Hero having lower damage but crash and being easy to play while Paladins would have no party skills and bad multi target damage but really high 1vs1 DPS that can beat both shads and buccs if you have SI and even rival NLs What do you think?
I'd like this idea more if damage cap was changed so Paladin didn't cap out so quickly. An equally high funded Paladin does not really compete with Bucc or NL at all with equal funding due to the nature of Blast and it's relationship with the damage cap.
1 hand sword pala(cara+SI) actually have a very similar damage output to bucc/shad. but 2h sword is limited to the damage cap
I actually had a similar idea in mind. Heroes have a very underused skill called "Enrage" which basically consumes all 10 combo orbs for a +26att buff (not stackable), basically an energizer with cooldown. This skill could be a great candidate for a new version of Paladin's new party skill "Total Crash" because: 1) It is not a trivial skill to get and to max since you need to max Advanced combo attack first before you can start adding points into it, not to mention ACA 10 is obtained from Zakum and Enrage itself is obtained through a quest (Good luck making an Enrage mule). 2) You need to be an active attacker in order to activate this skill since you need to charge a full 10 orb-combo in order to activate this skill (and yes, MISS doesn't charge up your combo so good luck attacking horntail with a mule). Another idea is to keep Paladin's Total Crash party skill as is and introduce this modified Enrage skill as well and make these party buffs stack with each other in a way that if both are casted to the party you get a 100% chance of breaking through weapon and magic cancels (75% chance for each skill could be great). And while we are at it, I had another idea for Heroes (and maybe Drks as well?) of making Knockbacks with Brandish more easier. Let's take Auf Haven as an example, it takes 75k damage or more in order to knock her back, a damage output which is really difficult for Heroes to reach as their Brandish damage is split into two lines. A really easy way to make knocking more viable to Heroes is to basically split the damage between the two lines not evenly. As of today Brandish deals 260% damage for each line, so any combination which adds up to 520% will not change Heroes DPS output but could help deal enough damage in one of the lines in order to knock back. For example the first damage line can be 350% and the second one 170%, so in this way Heroes could get the needed damage output while not affecting their DPS at all. (The same trick could be applied to Drks' Spear Crusher skill). What do you guys think about these ideas?
First I only disagree with the proposals in the thread as the skills currently stand (as well as disagree about the dmg cap being the only way to improve paladins) The warriors all have interesting debuff capabilities but they are all very claustrophobic of one another, as well as all being completely invalidated by dispel (which doesn't make sense because dispel doesn't erase the parties buffs) Before, saders broke shield buffs, dks defanged power buffs, and wks were a very unique class, and their magic crash, I think, originally would have later merged or synergized somehow with arches better. But we don't have mages attack in bosses in our meta sadly, so that was scrapped That they dispel (neutralize) instead of buff or nerf makes them perfect for the meta, it's not that bad if a boss buffs itself currently, and it's not at all worth the mule to bring it, currently. I think if boss def/att self buffs were more severe, it would distinguish them more, but that also creates a new arc for the meta to wrangle around. I think if the crashes simply were exclusive and not made useless by priests/bs which are in almost every party, and if you had to be equal or higher level to crash a boss, and all boss buffs were slightly more noticeable/common, that would do a lot within the individual classes This is more in line with the kind of changes Tim mentioned, making the game more "difficult" as opposed to harming/nerfing existing classes. I don't really see the point of moving total crash around for heroes when they have other options to potentially help heroes feel slightly more rounded in parties, as mentioned, enrage, shout, panic/coma, etc. (Though I think enrage should only work 20-25% through cancel, this way you'd need teamwork to fully bypass cancels. I also think enrage could have more interesting buffs than just w.att or cancel bypass but that's another topic)
I actually made a very similar suggestion when it comes to making Enrage into the new "total crash" skill in the Total Crash thread, so I'll just repost the ideas here Certain things could be subject to change, like changing the chance of hitting through CWA, cds, etc. but this is the main idea as far as reworking the warrior balance. For instance Enrage could be changed to like 80% chance to hit through CWA,CMA but no longer has a cd.
These are just my personal thoughts on changing hero, but it involves these skills: Enrage, Panic, Coma, Armor Crash, and Shout. Enrage - Currently Enrage uses up all combo orbs and gives a 26 weapon attack buff for 240 seconds with a cooldown of 240 seconds. This buff overrides all other attack buffs active on the character (as far as I know, I haven't actually leveled the skill due to the waste in points it would be). What I'd love to see happen is allowing enrage to be stackable with other potions/buffs, as well as being unable to be dispelled, seeing as it has a large cooldown for such a measly buff that can be beaten by an energizer or any comparable attack potion. Of course, the cooldown could be removed or lowered to counter this as well, but that still leaves the inability to compete in sheer power. Panic/Coma - These skills are super fun to use, but using them removes all combo counters for one extra bit of damage. The time it takes to use coma or panic, combined with having to charge orbs back up to use it again at full power, makes these skills near-useless for prolonged grinding. Panic also becomes obsolete once brandish has been acquired, but that should be expected with 4th job. What I'd like to see is less combo orb consumption on both skills, allowing them to be used at full power more often, and giving crusader something to use other than slash blast or power strike with max orbs all the way until 120. Panic could use up 3/4 of orbs due to its power, while coma could use up 2 orbs like it did in post-bb. Armor Crash - This skill is useful for solo warriors or someone without a priest/bishop in the party, but its range is godawful. I can't even dispel zakum's defense buff during the arm phase when I'm fighting him. The cast time buff for all the crashes is definitely a step in the right direction, but this skill could still use some more love imo. That's all I have to say for that skill. Shout - Extremely helpful utility skill for hero/crusader. Even with its pitifully low damage, I was able to use this skill for farming cards from low level enemies and for stunning dangerous enemies before they have a chance to screw me up (ie: Montrecer, Gatekeeper, and Crimson Guardian). The bad things about this skill are number of mobs hit and its range. The 90% stun chance is fine where it is, but the skill has good range only if enemies are below you. It has almost no upward range or horizontal range, making it difficult to use if enemies are auto-aggroing, like gatekeepers, or are very fast and will likely walk into you, triggering your power guard and attacking. The changes I'd like to see with this skill include increasing its range to about the range of max level Ice Strike or Explosion from the mages, as well as increasing the number of mobs hit from 6 to 10/15. This could really help keep mobs in place while rushing and would add great versatility to the skill. The damage I'd leave untouched, as this skill is meant to be utility, and not something akin to dragon roar since it just costs mp to cast. With paladins, I don't have much to add that hasn't already been widely discussed in the community already. I enjoy being able to bust through weapon cancel rather than totally getting rid of it, but I think the buff duration could be increased a tiny bit so paladins aren't losing much dpm during larger boss runs like horntail just go buff their team. The heaven's hammer buff doesn't seem all too noticeable, but I haven't actively played my paladins in a hot minute. I have no experience with DrK at 4th job and beyond, so my opinions on that class wouldn't count for much. (Was going to make my own thread on hero, but this one appeared just in time.)
It shouldn't matter what weapon they use- they shouldn't be discouraged from getting better gear because their main skill is a cannon unlike the other warriors. I will say it again, allowing pallies to not be hurt by the cap for blast is less of a buff and more of a QoL update at this point. I agree with a lot of what Shane posted- just going to add in Rage should stack/not override other buffs- not every low level fighter in a party is using fancy pots and might wish to use one of the skills that makes it a fighter/its a rather small buff in the grand scheme of things if it did stack.
entirely agree, exactly all of these skills have the inherent potential to be slightly altered to better heroes and not be wasted skills. the problem with panic and coma is that they can hit cap damage pretty easy since their multiplier is so high. I just worry that if they cost less to cast, they could imbalance hero dpm. agree about the shout range. I love what shout does already, I would just like to see it have a little boss use to keep it in rotation for the rest of the saders/hero journey. suggestions I've made to shout, as well as every other skill to your mentioned, from my general warrior skill feedback thread: Spoiler: shout shout! shout is a great skill. on paper. in action it sorta sucks. to give it some usage outside of wanting to shake the screen and hopefully other areas like bossing: • giveshout the (short) "threaten" effect everyone is asking for, lowered percent based weapon defense debuff (or temporary w.att debuff, opposite of pages) on bosses only, but only works 15%, and +6% each additional party member in the party (up to 45% at max level. costs more mp with more members) for a short window 20/30seconds lowering def -8/10%. To prevent mule abuse, this only works if you're the same level as the boss monster. • increases final attack damage on shouted mobs/bosses This warrants recasting, and gives heroes an optional role that players seem to think they are losing. Other options besides -def: boosts parties m.def, 10% chance to resist status effects for 20 seconds, or debuffs boss status accuracy, in turn giving a 10% chance to miss a status effect, or lessens the severity of 1/1 attacks (100/100 etc) • have shout give some kind of short ap buff at max of +10 str, +20 avoid, and 30 def/m.def to the user and for those in range. something like 10-15 seconds at max. A heroic, encouraging shout, a decent buff for solo style and short buff for third/early 4th job bossing parties? again the idea is encouraging these lesser used skills to be used more frequently and have people rethink skill investment. Would keep you in alert/hit status to prevent equipment abuse Spoiler: panic/coma panic/coma these are essentially useless, 20 levels worth of skill points, unusable in 4th job skills. yeah, you can use them before your combo ends. but people don't. they're cool in pirate pq. they're not bad when hunting headless horseman, but you lose your combo. what do you think is a good way to make these skills more viable? •have panic inflict darkness, like it used to lol, and have it only work bosses with max ACA, 10 orbs and give them something like -15/20% accuracy for like 10 seconds only the user gets the benefit of reduced acc, not the party. •coma, with max ACA and 10 orbs, has mp eater effect? chance to briefly lower/ignore w.def? 10 second window. 100% crit? •both have a chance to ignore weapon cancel 50% etc., short effects that promote reuse Spoiler: enrage enrage kind of a weird skill. you see very high/max levels use it on small zak runs to save on apples, that's basically it unless you use it solo. not so much worth the investment when it doesn't stack and nobody in the party wants it. • like rage, it would increase STR instead of weapon attack. +40/50/+? ,reduces accuracy -40/50/etc, inreases m.def +40/50. increase max HP by 600/etc, also has the "alert" effect for the duration so mules can't be abused (you couldn't equip something in rage/enrage because of the alert status and would have to debuff yourself to change equipment so you can't abuse) Or a combo of weapon attack and str • has a stun reduction %. something like: 60% chance to resist stun status, or chance to be able to attack but not move left/right/jump as usual in stun • has 20-25% chance to breakthrough cancel. with teamwork and timing, parties could have nearly 100% cancel breaking! • chance to always kb even if you can't, or reduce kb thresholds as a buff, or like KB with 70% chance with all attacks. • uhhh change the name to Adrenaline, or Heroics. enrage just sounds too edgy lol Spoiler: crashes power crash/armor crash oh lookie here. let's talk about em. as they stand currently they have extremely situational uses. as for armor crash, it can be dispelled by priests without a hero putting points in it, and no boss run is without an active or mule bs with dispel. power crash is vastly less useful than armor. here is my suggestion: •have both ac and pc on total crash cool down timers at max level. instead of their current function have armor crash reduce w.def -4% for 100-300 seconds, no longer dispels a monsters or bosses personal armor buff. power crash defangs monster/boss touch damage by -5% and lasts for a to be determined amount of time • consider switching ac/pc for saders/dks (see below) reading lots in the drk threads, heros in the most optimal conditions will come out on top of drks by 4% total damage output. that's the thinking behind armor crash going to drks. however, dks keeping power crash at -5% touch damage would be great for the higher risk bossing situations drks sit in when holding zerk in a 1hko range. however, giving heros an additional 4% perfect situation damage output could keep drks farther back, hence the suggestion to switch again, these would have 400s CD like total crash
I wasn't suggesting increasing the cap, as they would have implications elsewhere. There should be no reason to make it hit multiple times "at once" while keeping everything else the same. The point is making it so pallies don't hit cap and therefore have a theoretically higher ceiling to achieve. I get it would "be weird" visually, but again, no other warrior classes have to deal with this or completely forgo a unique weapon (aka axe on hero) or class preference (1h vs 2h) as to not hit cap. Just feels dirty.
Personally I don't like the idea of Enrage being a party buff, especially for total crash. I know people don't like the nostalgia argument but the server is advertised as that and the way I interpreted this is that the server is going to be gms-like, so let's not get to crazy with the skill changes. If anything is to be done with enrage it should be making it a stackable buff with other attack buffs and that's it. In my opinion I believe you just have to make Paladins more appealing to play and their party buffs less powerful if you want more people to actually play the class and less people muling it. If I would make a suggestion myself it would be to make Blast ignore the damage cap and just revert crash back to normal, and if you want to take it even further than that then buff their defense like crazy in a way that they did with them after the Big Bang update (though that'll probably just make them sed mules for HT)
If enrage buffed STR instead of atk, (party or not), it could stack. Giving it some stun resistance would be great for auf/zak. Having a 1/1 ignore chance or 1/1 reducer effect, making it like 100/100. +A big m.def or def chunk, +avoid, 9/10% chance to resist/ignore any status, etc, etc Cons would be -10 orbs, -ACC, increased MP cost or constant mp drain, under enrage, and you stay in the alert/hit state, so no natural healing or standing still (also so you can't unequip/abuse the str buff), maybe all potions have a diminished effect (-10%) Also heroes could have slightly faster/stronger/farther rush and monster magnet skills? Heroic things lol. Or enrage makes their rush/magnet faster? I get that heroes want just a tiny something extra between the elemental total crash paladins and zerking hyperbody drks I'd argue enrage isn't that nostalgic a skill for most people, and is about as useful and nostalgic as shadow meso here, but that's due to our onyx apple meta, so finding a replacement (+STR buff instead) or new slightly helpful but conditional buffs that fit the identity of the skill and class, or also making it a super modest party buff (would be later gamish too 16x17x. aca> brandish>stance>MW>etc) since heroes don't have one, and rage is super similar to enrage.
I'd love monster magnet if 1. it maybe hit the same number of monsters as rush and 2. if the success rate was 100% at max level. I wouldn't want to to be like snatch where it does damage, but having far range and the ability to pull 15 enemies rather than up to 6 would probably make it much more usable in late-game grinding areas like ToT. Rush seems to have a good distance for pushing already once maxed, so I don't think it needs to be changed.
I've def made magnet suggestions in my thread. If it had like a 2 sec spam delay and 85% pull rate at max, people would use it. The charge mechanic, like big bang or pierce make it real hard to use and time with so many other skills to compensate those effects Only mentioned rush speed/etc to just slightly differentiate heroes, ala being the first to rush in, the fastest to pull monsters etc. Minor differences that would define and color them a bit more without much change. Def ok with magnet maintaining no damage (and I believe doesn't aggro either), as well as shout staying low damage, forgot to mention that earlier
Maybe giving enrage a chance to always kb even if you can't, or reduce kb thresholds as a buff, or like KB with 70% chance with all attacks.
This is very very untrue. 1. The Carabella > Claymore argument is only relevant for very funded players, and even then the difference is not HUGE, since u basically still deal less damage, but you have 8.5% chance to fall instead of 10%, thats it. 2. Theres a big difference in damage between a Shad and Bucc and in some situations its even Shad<Paladin<Bucc, a Paladin is just unable to get anywhere near a Bucc in terms of damage, especially if we are talking about the same level of funding. * Coming from a disappointed Carabella paladin who switched to Claymore because i was brainwashed to think Carabella was superior.
Too bad 1 handed builds got completely neutered when server changed source code, since Gaurdian went from being a very good skill (it nullified an attack completely, including any effects like stun or HT debuff) to being a complete waste of skill points. If Guardian went back to it's original intended design, I think 1h characters would be a lot better.
Yes, but the issue is that ST Paladin still does more DPS than Carabella Paladin. This is supposed to be balanced by the fact that ST Paladins cannot equip shields and thus cannot use Guardian, which would make them vulnerable to Zakum stun and HT sed. However, because Guardian essentially got nerfed, there is no reason to build a shield 1h paladin vs a ST paladin. Shields used to have a niche use, and now they are just a +att item like everything else. That's my main issue with 1h.
