Idk I mean that platform is a platform, it's not like it's something that's not supposed to be there and it's being abused, and it's still dangerous to be that close to auf for lots of reasons Agree with aufs stun being more like 85% than 100% and giving her more hp/exp and ws/cs, and maybe give clones more HP, give clones monster cards and drops
I've been retry again and again standing at the edge, not even a single of my brandish land on it f4.. what I've missed
I'm not sure you understood exactly what i meant so I will clarify @MaiAh @Fli I don't mind doom, it's just that if you doom mobs that are stunned mid-air they don't just turn into snails, but instead DISAPPEAR, like it just instantly kills them. Also for what you said about removing that platform @Fli , when people were not using it before, it didnt encourage big parties or multiple hsh mules, but instead the meta was 4-5 men runs with active bishop, so I'm not sure what you mean. Hero is absolutely useless at Auf unless you equip and shield and just push it by getting hit with max Guardian sadly.
The client display anything with some delay when it needs to download from server. They are not in mid-air but actually fall under the ground due to the stun, so the system can't find a platform for snail(non-flying mob) which has lower y coordinate than the mob after dooming, if the bishop doom faster or the mob flying at really high, it works normally. Removing that platform without other balance is not a good choice IMO. In the 1 bishop meta melees just got countless stuns and saying "oh I am stunned I can do nothing but die" while shield on CD, this case is unsafe and no fun for them, my thought is after people died times they will start think about bringing more shield mules. But if less stuns so 1 bishop enough? I choose 1 active bishop in party rather than 3 attackers bringing 3 shield mules because of: 1. Multi-client lag and danger of DCing 2. Damage loss when changing window to cast shield 3. The risk when doing core blaze My point: If rebalance could make it back to 1 bishop meta, that is good enough. If no, do not change anything does meaningless difficulty increasing, maple is not old action games on FC needs you play hundred hours to conquer a boss with luck. I don't expect any boss really needs multi-party would appear in Royals
While this is reassuring but... I think I'll repeat what I said before in the Staff team change thread which is: "Participate in discussions. Don't get defensive. Ask questions. Be interested in what your fellow players have to say. Analyze the discussions/feedback." While it's fine to lurk and just gather feedback as it comes, it's highly imperative to ask questions to exponentially increase the amount of feedback one can get as well as fostering motivation/curiosity from the community. --------- With that said I guess I'll put in something... Not sure if @Donn1e or anyone else will agree but here it goes: [-] Neo Tokyo I think it should be very obvious to the Staff and everyone else but there's still a lack of participation in the Neo Tokyo area. While there's people that are readily doing Auf Haven runs, for mid-tier players, I think there's just not enough incentive to go to Neo Tokyo in favor of just the staple bosses (i.e. Zak/Krex/Pap/HT). We know Dunas v1 is ran daily and Auf Haven runs are frequent but... The Auf Helm is just untouchable in my opinion and Dunas v1 is kind of a drag for people who don't have the 15k hp to stand tall over it. Unless one is trying to craft stars, there's no reason to waste your time with this area. I feel you guys shot yourselves in the foot by not introducing Neo Tokyo weapons like the Judgement gun and taking my suggestion to heart before in using the Visitor's Event/Alien Invader weapon models (VIP weapons) to replace the Flairgrave/Speargrave weapons since its highly unlikely you guys will use Alien Invader weapons (and you Pink Bean is on the horizon). If you guys could make the Crimson Arclancer an interesting weapon to craft and use, how is it not possible to have Neo Tokyo weapons to craft/use? I feel you guys need to drop your fears and grievances and just interact with the community on ideas to make Neo Tokyo a better place. If things aren't able to be learned from Neo Tokyo, I fear that Pink Bean will be highly underwhelming given the treatment Neo Tokyo has received so far. [-] Mobs [Protolord] - Please for the love of god... switch the Card Effects of Protolord and Overlord. There's really no need to make this area of prequests highly frustrating to interact with for players just trying to make it to the bosses to play with other people! If the card effects are switched, it'll allow people coming through to not have be totally irritated the whole time doing the prequest and grinding in this area is actually possible. Copypasta from old post (may be parts people disagree with in comparison to now): [Afterlord & Overlord] - Overlord pathing is very bad/annoying. They tend to fly around the very top of the map so you're have to constantly climb up to aggro them to the floor. I recommend, if possible, to force them to fly around the middle part of the map. One idea could be to make Overlords be auto-aggro to players on the map. [Eruwater] - The maps for Eruwater aren't really ideal for grinding, most notably Akihabara Rofftops. You can't [Down]+[Jump] on that map for some odd reason and the spawns are very low for such a big map. I recommend enabling [Down]+[Jump] on the map and increasing Eruwater spawn. [Maverick A Y V] - Old Flagship Bow is a terrible map to grind since it feels like there's only a small spawn of Maverick V on the map. On Old Fox Flagship, respawn of the Mavericks can be too slow if you have a party to kill the Mavericks fast. Maverick Y's scrolls are a little disappointing too. I recommend increasing Maverick V spawns on Old Fox Flagship Bow and increase respawn (and possibly increase spawn) of Mavericks in Old Fox Flagship. [-] Bosses [Vergamot] - I want to suggest making the top of the ship crane be a safe spot for an HS mule. In Dunas v1/2, Nibergen, and NMM, you can reasonably have HS mule for exp without it dying but for Vergamot, it can be a hassle unless your Bishop is HP washed. By making the crane spot be safe, it'll encourage people to run Vergamot more since you'll actually be able to get more consistent HS for exp since BS wont be dead. There would need to be an adjustment so that ranged attackers (more specifically, NLs) can't attack on the top of the crane. [Dunas v1] - From an old post: "I know a lot of people will disagree but I think the Dunas v1's Attack UP buff should be removed. Is the point of Damage Reflect to be a HP barrier or a game mechanic that punishes inattentiveness? We know from Mu Lung Dojo's boss, Mu Gong (Panda), that Damage Reflect can be a sound mechanic in party play. Currently, on Dunas v1, the Damage Reflect with the Attack UP buff acts as a HP barrier rather than a sound game mechanic due to the fact that you're, face it or not, required to have a hefty amount of HP to "stand tall" over the boss. You're forced to have a present Drk or HB mule that can bring you over the boosted Damage Reflect damage rather than having a Drk/HBmule being a good aid akin to Paladins & Crash for Zakum... So if you're a bit lacking on HP that you require HB in addition to finding attackers, it makes the boss that much harder and more intimidating. And if attackers are intimidated by the boss due to having bad runs with no HB (i.e. I had a run without HB with 4 people, including myself, and 2 of the attackers died since they couldn't survive 1 damage reflect), that means less overall interest in the area and a drop in participants. Removing the Attack UP buff from Dunas will allow the boss to be more approachable if the party can't recruit a Drk/Atker w/ HB mule. Damage Reflect should punish you for being inattentive rather punishing you for not having enough HP due to Attack UP." ---- While I still do agree with what I posted in the past, I think there'll be people who have HP washed or have their own HB mule that solos Dunas v1 be annoyed with what I wrote. If Dunas v1's reflect damage did 25k damage with Attack Up on, they'd have a change of mind in my opinion. I think that the damage reflect mechanic needs to give a better indication that it's up and when its gone. Some ideas: Have a notification 3-5 seconds before the boss activates Damage reflect that 'the boss is readying damage reflect' and a notification that it lowered the reflect/disappeared Better visibility of Damage reflect symbol Have Damage reflect activate after the boss cast animation ends rather than the start of the cast animation [Nibergen] - From an old post: "Please... for the love of God... reduce the amount of Weapon Cancel this boss has! I thought it was learned that heavy amounts of Weapon Cancel is frustrating with pre-patch Scarlion & Targa. This boss isn't particularly difficult but exceedingly aggravating to fight due to the fact that Onyx Apples/Heartstoppers can be made redundant due to the amount of time spent not attacking the boss due to knock back, stuns, and/or melee'ing air due to the laser balls in addition to the excessive weapon cancels. So attackers feel inclined to use a Energizer/Witch Stew Pot which in turn makes fighting this boss even longer..." --- That post still applies today. I don't understand how Nibergen is still the way it is now when Scarga was changed with its weapon cancel a longtime back. When even Paladins are fairly useless in this boss, you know it's really bad. [Nameless Magic Monster] - The HP:EXP ratio of Nameless Magic Monster is too high and is reflected in a dragged out boss fight. Here is the HP:EXP of Neo Tokyo bosses: Vergamot: [7.44] 300,000,000 HP : 40,320,000 EXP Dunas V1: [7.81] 230,000,000 HP : 29,440,000 EXP Nibergen: [8.65] 349,000,000 HP : 40,320,000 EXP NMM: [13.04] 430,000,000 HP : 32,960,000 EXP Dunas V2: [9.11] 350,000,000 HP : 38,400,000 EXP Royal Guard: [8.06] 400,000,000 HP : 49,600,000 EXP Core Blaze: [7.81] 450,000,000 HP : 57,600,000 EXP Auf Haven: [13.04] 430,000,000 HP : 32,960,000 EXP Auf Haven Expedition (Full): [9.13] 1,280,000,000 HP : 140,160,000 EXP HP:EXP of other bosses to give comparison: Papulatus: [8.03:1] 23,000,000 HP : 2,860,800 EXP Zakum: [9.54:1] 482,100,000 HP : 50,498,560 EXP (may not be right exp/ratio) Krex: [8.68:1] 500,000,000 HP : 57,600,000 EXP (taken from Joong) Scarlion/Targa: [15.5:1] 300,000,000 HP : 19,353,600 EXP Scarlion+Targa (both in corner): [~7.75-11.62:1] ~300,000,000-450,000,000 HP : 37,707,200 EXP Horntail: [7.93:1] 2,730,000,000 HP : 344,146,432 EXP (not sure on this so I pulled from ilyssia's chart) Toad: [6.98:1] 1,070,000,000 HP : 153,120,000 EXP The Boss (total): [7.84:1] 1,050,000,000 HP : 133,760,000 EXP (may not be right exp/ratio) -- Shao: [1.95:1] 100,000,000 HP : 51,200,000 EXP Nameless Magic Monster has a whopping 13.04 HP:EXP... The only boss with a similar value is doing only one boss of the Scar/Targa expedition which is 15.5 HP:EXP. Keep in mind that Scar/Targa drops a Best-in-Slot helmet while Nameless Magic Monster drops Belt scrolls for an equip that takes up 1 day~2 weeks to get by doing Mu Lung Dojo. Lowering the HP for the boss would be ideal. [Dunas v2] - As @Donn1e already pointed out, make Dunas v2 pinnable and have a high KB so that running with a melee is encouraged. It might be that you guys will lower the expedition time to make it more of time attack boss. [-] Boss loot - There needs to be an incentive to do the Neo Tokyo bosses as besides Dunas v1 for Element Pierce earrings, Vergamot/NMM/Dunas v2 is very lackluster. There's also little point to aim for Auf Haven for the circlet since 10% miracle scrolls are too expensive to endeavor and the 60% scrolls have too high of a boom chance to think about using them. Doing Zakum/Scarga is just more efficient than 60%'ing the circlet. Suggestions: Increase NX rewards by either introducing 2~4 250nx cards, increasing chances of 5k nx card to drop, or chance of having 2x 5k nx cards drop Add Valuable Scrolls to the bosses to make them more worthwhile to farm. Some examples include 30% scrolls, scrolls that are unused, or introducing/creating new types of scrolls. Add the Neo Tokyo weapons such as the Judgement gun and new weapons (that replace the Flair/Speargrave models and use VIP weapon models) that are craftable from Boss drops/etc drop and/or rare drop chance from a single boss(i.e. rare chance for Judgement gun to drop from Dunas v2). Make weapon craft require using a dragon weapon in the crafting. Make Bosshunter gear get an upgrade from Neo Tokyo Make Auf Haven 60% scrolls more worthwhile to use [-] F/P Archmage - From an old post: "A lot of people are either going to hate or ignore this comment but I need to throw it out there... Is it possible to buff Fire/Poison Mages in Neo Tokyo by making the mobs and bosses of Neo Tokyo NOT be immune to Poison attacks, aka Paralyze??? After playing with Shiratsuyu in some of the areas/bosses, it has come to my opinion that I/L mages just dumpsters all over a F/P in Neo Tokyo with Chain Lightening because what should be their main attacking skill, Paralyze, can't do any damage at all against bosses and requires a set-up with Fire/Ice Demon to even do damage against mobs. I suggest making Bosses elemental weak/normal against Poison and mobs have elemental strong/normal against Poison. The Poison Mist skill can be disabled on maps since Poison Mist could end up being too strong." --- This post still applies as well. I get not making Archmages good at bossing but at least make F/P Archmages have the same opportunity as i/L Archmages in Neo Tokyo. There's no reason for why F/P Archmages should be left out. [-] Suggestion - Daily quest - I feel that there should be a daily quest in the Neo Tokyo area after you managed to get through the entirety of the areas (or reaching some point). This daily quest should involve grinding the Neo Tokyo mob(s) for a random reward. The HP increase potion could be a chance for reward among other things.
It's entirely possible to change this, however anyone who goes into Aqua Road and compares the gameplay will see that "swimming" is drastically different from "flying" in terms of mechanics. Would this change still be desirable?
isn't just the speed (i guess can be lowered if need ) and FJ that "breaks" while "swim" ? seem worth sacrifice that for other jobs ability to attack properly
It doesn't seem to change much tho, the jobs who cannot attack in the air in Auf atm (bucc,shad etc.) also can't attack while swimming. I don't know what it actually changes except for different movement mechanics that in my eyes are not needed. Unless I'm completely missing something, I'd love if you could explain @Joong
Hi, I don't think you're completely missing something. Swimming allows some more classes to attack "midair", who cannot attack midair whilst flying. Would this alone be an improvement? User Haplopelma proposed changing it to swimming, and I thought it was worth asking if this sentiment was shared amongst others.
Yes. Allowing more classes (ideally all classes) to attack in mid-air in itself will be an important QoL improvement for auf haven expeditions.
In that case it's definitely a welcomed change - as I only tested it on my bucc and it was still unable to attack while swimming. Would be nice if anyone could tell me which of the remaining classes can attack while swimming (shad,BM,MM), all other classes are able to attack in the air too AFAIK.
I don't like the idea of removing platforms in general as it changes the map layout, though it doesn't sound that bad to go back to the days when everyone just stayed on the ground and attacked. Nowadays if I bring a bishop mule I don't really focus on timely holy shields that much since us melees aren't getting stunned anyway, which is kinda sad for bishops. Anyway. if we are considering removing the platform used by the melee chars to make it more difficult/less afkable, might as well remove the top right plat as well so mules can't easily afk there in a chair and be mostly safe as long as boss is pinned (this coming from someone who has hb mule/bs/se for auf). But if we're just making things more difficult for melee chars and pinning, I think bm/mms are going to have a hard time since we mostly have low hp, and can't float up high and hit like NLs since we have to be on the ground. I think being able to hit while floating would be very necessary. Though when that happens, I'm not sure if people would just give up on risky pinning with melee and have nl/se parties attack while floating instead (though I think melee parties would do perfectly fine still as that was how we did it before, since some pinning >>> no pinning).
Disagree only this part, others just fine. Personally think any kind of stuffs encourage mule is not good. Attacker can touch boss to avoid dispel then use a skill marco, alt+tab/re-MG during the time, fast and easy even without DPS loss. If bringing HS mule, then care it, or else get an active bishop friend/do this run without HS, I think this is fair. I remember someday @Matt said this change could not be done due to client limit, am I wrong? This limit is the reason why I disagreed the OP's point of removing the "Bucc platform", if we could floating attack who needs platform to avoid stuns? Spoiler: Someday in 2019... My suggestions: 1. Make it still flying but not like Aqua(you move slower), but all classes(including bucc or other classes can't attack while swimming) be able to attack in the air. 2. Fix the NL's FJ issue as @MaiAh said, even if that's not very easy to control but I feel it is like cheat. 3. If 1. could be done, then removing braindead attack/mules' safe platform as OP said. Furthermore, please fix the Barrage bug that doesn't require 75k/KB many times attacking once. Melees need to keep jumping instead of standing at a certain place then spamming skills, more technical play sounds good doesn't it? Once those could be done, more classes are wanted, for instance some skills like Snipe and Assassinate can do better pinning so Buccs do not rule the entire run anymore, an active bishop can cast holy shield that gives the party some "invincible" time if all members messed up. A high difficulty but balanced/party game needed boss is what I expect Auf should be
Friendly reminder: -Remember how Auf used to be B4 the recent changes, ive seen a ot of ppl including my friends "missing" how hard it used to be due dmg, mechanics, etc. But the realitiy is that once Pros did it once for the challenge, it was a pretty forgetable boss(as the other NT bosses except for dunas), then calified it as "not worth it" or "200 ws for a untradeable item is the stupidiest idea ever"(i do not agree with this, but it was said by some ppl) yes im aware that auf helm scroll used to be 5%, but i still think that if they make it a really harder boss wich need several ppl to be done, wiotuth buffing the rewards significantly , its going to be forgotten again, and if the main concern its how it would affect the market, limit the auf runs a bit more, like 3 times per week or something. Disclaimer.- im not going against QoL changes, just a friendly reminder of how it used to be....
What you speak of is Auf before the touch damage nerf too, because after that Auf was perfectly doable and I ran it daily without knowing about this platform. More effort - sure, but definitely doesnt require heavier wash or anything like that, just more effort and knowledge of mechanics, which is what should be encouraged in my opinion. Right now the boss is absolutely braindead if done right, no risk at all.
yes, not saying otherwise, but at what cost,i mean, im not even giving an argument here, im just remind it ppl that, even those who cherish old auf, didnt do it often back then, some did it once and thats all, what im saying is, if you buff the difficultity, YOU MUST BUFF THE REWARDS ASWELL Other than that, i know the mindset of pro players(wich are in my definition those who have neat gears+big knowlege of the game mechanics+like to experiment+jobs kwoledge in general, im sorry but "i have 70 att gears" its not enough ) here, but i also know the mindset of the majority and if something implies having to know mechanics, BUT if youre 30/30k dont need to know a shit and just hit, believe me ppl gonna say "wash is not optional bcs of this boss" gonna wash and then complain about it...i dont know if im writing this correctly, i hope you get my point,perosnally i see no difference between 17k dmg and 23, its the same 2 hits for most chars, BELIEVE , I HAVE TOLD PPL you dont need to wash for "x" boss, but all that noobs ask is ."how much this boss hits?, oh ok, then im gonna wash till that+1k", so dmg would only be relevant if it does 35k+dmg so no one except for hyper washed shads/bs can tank it, so from my sight the only way that you can have a insane dmg witouth encourage wash in this game is make it untankable, other wise any 15k-29.9k dmg is the same (youll get 2 hitted)
