Revisiting the design of Meso Explosion

I dislike the concept of leeching as well, but that is besides the point. This is just one of many issues i have with the current form of ME. The damage of ME is not exclusive for solo bosses that only give exp. You can use it in many other endgame bosses that reward other things as well. As long as you have spare money, you can deal good damage to any boss, without having a single equipment that increases your damage. That's outright silly, and not in the spirit of maplestory.
Before the shad buff, using ME together with ass bstep was also the ONLY realistic way for shads to have reasonable dps, and made them rely on macros or 2:1 keybinds to actually achieve their maximum possible output. After the buff, high enough range allowed for shads to stop using ME, but until you are funded enough to get to that point, ME remains a good chunk of your dps.
We can argue about what makes more or less sense, leech service or flat damage for meso, but i think that comes down to pure opinion. This conversation is also a bit off topic imo.

 

Agree. shadower have to useful use PP.
Occasionally, Meso Explosion will give less damage than normal to monster when meso has not disappeared.
Can kill monster, But shadow did not gain EXP.

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meso has disappeared when die monster in almost every situation..

Disadvantages.
(=PP not easy to get EXP.)

Advantages.
(=Nice situation about PP useing and Drop Quantity Of Meso)

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So. i agree.
- roll back Meso Explosion to normal
- ME should not used monster meso(except meso of PP).
- increase PP Drop Quantity Of Meso(i think 10,000 dmg ->0.5k - 2k meso)

(i think correct opinion about success rate 60%.)

 

Alright, what I said earlier today wasn't a good place to start my opinion. I personally believe ME should not be changed in any other way. No offense, but I think it is not a smart thing to take an opinion from a non-Shadower veteran player in relation to changing their balance.

I know it is cruel to believe the fact that people don't grind to level up during 3rd job stage of the game. People simply buy leech because it is much faster than training by themselves. Due to the high demand of APR and earnings from gacha is more than enough to buy 1 -2hrs of leech everyday. Therefore... Pickpocket buff? I don't think that is necessary because it is simply a 3rd job skill as I mentioned from the first post I made on this thread. Buffing pickpocket would contribute nothing because it will never be strong as any 4th job skills. Making pickpocket strong enough to out damage 4th job Shadower just seems nonsense to me.

Shadower can hit 4 arms in Zak with Bstep+BoT meanwhile having guaranteed 2-4BoT hit between each Bstep. In addition to that, Shadower now have the highest single target dps among melee classes by using pure Bstep+Assassinate without using ME. Shadower is already one of the best Sed class at horntail because they have high avoidability in addition to having 40% guaranteed dodge from Shifter, and they can hit 4 targets at C side by using Bstep+BoT meanwhile having guaranteed 2-3 BoT hit between each Bstep. So, I don't think BoT buff is appropriate because that will overpower Shadowers.

Can you guys just leave this game alone and stop trying to change too much. CB has been unique its on way since the release of the game. I was a Shadower player who reached 4th job in KMS pre big bang, and I would really like them to be the same. The Bstep+Assassinate buff was really really strong. I know most of you guys do not have a strong Shadower so it's hard for you guys to figure out the damage difference between pre-buff and post-buff, but the buff was unbelievably huge. I am certainly sure that a Shadower with 130 atk dagger, which is 15 atk away from a perfect dagger, can white a Hero with perfect ST. Of course, ME is not included.

I encounter so many, countless number of 4th job Shadowers not using ME during bossing. Yes, I will repeat this sentence again. I met many low level Shadower players who are not as funded as me who claim to not use ME during bossing. Whenever I ask questions in relation to usage of ME during bossing, I barely get an answer of "Yes I use ME during bossing over Bstep+Assassinate". The only place where I see ME being viable is when they are soloing Shaolin, but Shadower is strong enough to solo Shaolin without using ME with decent funding just like any other melee classes.

"MapleRoyals offers everything you loved back then, now! We always try to keep the server as nostalgic as possible whilst adding custom content (such as hairstyles, faces and NX items) that enriches the game without hurting the gameplay we all miss." I understand that this whole nostalgic statement thingy is forgotten for many players at this point, but let's keep some stuff nostalgic as possible.

 

I'm sad becouse almost you told about bossing . but your are right. so sad. just we want to use PP on mob. it also, problem about nostalgic.(As a KMS player).

originaly shadower was class specialized in hunting rather than bossing. may be, Royals was diffrent.

 

Jeez, listen to you guys, everyone in this thread yelling "ME" "ME" "ME"

Lol sorry had to get that joke out the way first
As a 198 shad, even I think meso explosion is ridiculous. Its totally broken. No third job class should be able to do that much damage. Shads benefit from an arsenal of skills and utility in concert. If meso explosion wasn't so insanely broken and allowed to work as it does, we would probably see a slightly more robust and fuller 3rd job and 4th job, and likely wouldn't have even gotten the full assassinate buff we did (of which I am thankful for)

Yeah pickpocket ought to work a bit better, especially on bosses, and meso explosion shouldn't be as strong as it is, it's way too exploitable, it's not sporting at all and extremely imbalanced, especially because how much money can be made/generated so easily in this server.
ME should be more of a finisher, and should also probably ignore cancel too, that way if ME is weaker, we can actually boom the pickpocketed mesos without losing dps (during a cancel)

Would also be nice QoL if pickpocketed bags could merge into one large comically sized bag after so much has been dropped on the ground so it's possible to time or visually cue it better in bosses (and have the larger bags blink when they're about to dissapear)

This could also lean into chakra, and shield mastery getting some more function, as well as ninja ambush (trash skill, only good if maxed during cancel and you have a godly range)

And honestly I think meso guard is a bit OP 30-40% dmg reduction is a bit more fair, bstep shouldn't really stun but ok that's fine, assaulter should be a bit faster, chakra should be faster and maybe animate while walking but have a similar timed cooldown, or let you chakra in ds (still hella risky), venom should be a toggle on/off skill, I talked about pickpocket earlier, and steal should definitely get a mastery upgrade in 3rd, chakra getting some upgrade in 4th replacing ambush, acts like a regen skill whenever an attack misses you, heals you a lil bit, etc etc

Sound crazy? Meso explosion being so easily exploitable is crazier, it's highly imbalanced and unsporting (kinda like how dominating mist training is), and it takes away from all your other skills and gives you an insane advantage in bossing and how fast you can level from 70 onward

I think in a private server where we saw how bad it was and remove big bang, insert a million new QoL improvements, and slowly and continually roll out new content, it makes no sense to also ignore broken or dead content (like useless skills made even more useless by exploiting broken skills) as if time is frozen. Its bizarre some aspects stay trash while we keep releasing new content but buffing/altering linear meta skills as opposed to all of them. It makes the server feel incomplete, or like it only trudges forward with certain agendas in mind. Like I don't think it's really fair the strongest class in the game gets a time bonus on att pots when everyone else has to pay for more and more of them, and I bet alchemist would have got that aspect totally nerfed if the apple or stopper farming meta was as vast as ours, but we just let it slide cause nostalgia. Just doesn't make sense to fix some things and look at others like alchemist or meso explosion or hurricane having no attack limit, or archmages just being leech and farm slaves (wow so fun), or the amount of clients you can run, hp washing and go, "hey, that's nostalgia baby!" instead of seeing it becoming a problem. Either you look at your server as a living breathing thing with a future, or you just hope people come here for this nostalgic imbalanced mess, Before that other Big imBalanced mess that we are against. really odd stance?

anyway I agree about meso explosion. The bandit class tree is beautiful, but meso explosion really throws the class off. It can be nerfed and still be a good, reliable skill with function. There's always a middle way

 

I've always wanted exactly this to happen. I wanted shadowers to be played exactly like you suggest. Making the mesos generated by pickpocket to be unpickable and ME to only be able to explode those mesos. So the class would be a class that had 2 attack windows, 1 in which you generate mesos and do moderate damage, and a high burst window in which you explode everything.

Totally a +1 for this suggestion.

 

Popping in here to add stolen mesos, and mesos from dead mobs too, would give ME more synergy than just with pickpocket. Would be great to give Steal some relevance as well, perhaps it's bags pack a nice punch, and could be colored differently, shiny gold sacks, or dark sacks, to see them better in the mess of bronze mesos, and would help if mesos could be stolen from bosses as well.

which is also why I made the merged oversized bag suggestion for PP, not to be silly but so you can actually tally how much you have down on the ground, and know when it's a good time to bomb. this would be a lot more engaging and fun, and look great too. that way you could also pick it up easier too (all at once. or rather, whatever the determined amount a big sack(s) would contain. 50k, 100k, etc, but only merge after your pickpocketing has accumulated that much) this way you wouldn't lose as much time holding bomb down, and your dpm stabilizes

ME going down to one, two or three lines of more concentrated meso damage, no dropping allowed, from PP, steal, dead mobs, meso-up, card buffs, is a lot healthier overall for the class.

Only issue is that some bosses with multiple parts, like zak top four arms or ht, PP drops in a single place. HTs is dead center between the legs and it isn't helpful, krex drops between it's eyes too, but that's a future concern if this is considered. Also I think core blaze drops mesos in a weird spot too.

Other possible initial issue is the amount of generated mesos, so perhaps not picking up the accumulated sacks should be allowed, to allow bossing with PP/ME better synergy. Also if anyone wants to appeal to meso sink: ws/cs/att pots

 

As a shad main, I love the fact that I can bomb my own meso. I don’t see the clear rationale behind the suggestion and I believe this is going to hurt the shadower by a lot, if implemented.

 

As an unfunded (still), unwashed 198 shad main with no mage money printers or mules and shad as my first char on this server, it was way too easy for me to level as a cb, steal exp in zak and krex, and gain a massive advantage over anyone I wanted just because of the drop mechanic with my (still) terrible gear
I know a developer worked really hard to make ME work here but that doesn't mean it's not super imbalanced

This does nothing to hurt CB or Shad as a class, and I had a 15x shad before the assassinate buff. The nate buff changed the class, but cbs can still get away with dpm that some lvl 200 chars can't, in perfect situations. There can definitely be a good compromise

 

I don’t see it as a problem at all. It gives CB a way to level fast and why is that a problem? Also, it’s not that easy to bomb bf and it does take practices. If it’s really imbalanced, this class will be more popular than NL. However, shad is still a very unpopular class for now in reality.
If we use the same logic, are we going to nerf fire mage from poisoning the death teddy at lv50?

 

I did mention poison/mist training as well, it's really easy to power level way faster than almost any other class. I leveled a F/P to archmage (hoping one day they'll be viable for bossing) with no trouble in like two weeks
Its not just that powerleveling imbalances their advantage over other classes it's that ME is potentially the strongest skill in the game, too.
There can most definitely be a good compromise

Bombing bigfoot with hs vs grinding, even if bigfoot had 1.5-2x it's current hp, would still be a better use of time/mesos than grinding or pqing. And speed leveling from 3rd to 135 is huge in a server where most leech those levels. It does nothing to hurt the class, and folks aren't saying delete ME and PP, they're saying find a middle ground that's not so imbalanced

 

High level shadower don’t really use ME with a few exceptions. Perhaps it’s potentially the strongest 3rd job skill but I still don’t see a reason to rework it

 

It's no question the strongest 3rd job skill, and vs some bosses that cancel, or if you have smokescreen, it can overpower any 4th job too if you're fast/efficient enough with your clicking and macros.

Its not really about shads though, it gives cbs an unfair advantage over anyone else their level and for a long time in 4th job. Also Bigfoot still doesn't even have his magic attack fixed in this server, so they have it even easier. And yeah, poison training is a huge advantage to F/P but they just become leechers so it's not a problem lol.
All I'm saying is it could definitely be toned down but still be functional and worth the player's effort, and possibly for all of 4th as well if it could be tuned right

 

Yes the shad can outdamge any 4th job with ME but it requires very specific condition, for example 2 or 3 shad to use smokescreen and constantly dropping expensive meso. But currently, high level shad use ass+bstep instead of ME with the very few exceptions. Disable the ability to bomb its own meso would essentially take away what makes shadower a shadower. It would also kill the shadower HT runs which I found very entertaining thanks to @Incentv
This class already has low population pls show mercy sadge

 

Just one shad with max shifter can drop most places with no problem at all, you do not need more than one shad to make the conditions perfect, in fact just some well timed weapon cancel periods will keep you ME damage high, the cost of mesos isn't at all what makes it a risk/reward skill either, mesos are easily generated here.

I could not disagree with you more that bombing is what makes shads shads, that hurts my bandit heart. I personally think because it's so exploitable ME causes other skill in their tree to be overlooked

And I've been on tons of all shad/most shad HT runs, bombing missions don't save that much time or att pot money, especially if you're super geared and high leveled, there's no point sometimes, it just potentially saves 1, maybe two smokes

 

I agree

 

who revived this nightmare please put it back in trash. I'm getting thief-nerf flashbacks way too soon, this ain't even funny. Soloing Shao at 135 with ME+apple is my business and nobody else's, leave ME alone!

 

I really doubt anyone not invested in this topic is voting on it, and even if the poll is for or against it, it's a merited topic. As a shad myself I see a lot more flaws in it currently than benefits

ME did