Howdy freaks. From the title you already know a weird one is coming, but it's really not, and I hope at the very least you're entertained, and very most, see the interesting market/bossing prospect this concept presents. I'm going to give you the TL; DR first lol, and I'll add the usual color and spaz possibilities afterwards to folks that are interested. Spoiler: TL; WON'T READ Hero's Will (10) Requires HW lvl5. Lvl6-10: adds a passive chance to resist Seduce TBD resist %. 5% chance is a 1/20 possibility, (duh), etc. Drops from highest level bosses. Auf, Von Leon, PB, TBD newer bosses, or perhaps a rare drop from less commonly run current bosses (the boss, toad) Why: it provides a fresh economic boom and new drop to the current bossing meta (new drops are sorely needed) akin to MW20: it's a new common class SB, so all classes would desire it, provides a great defensive tech if gained and invested in (it could also be HW20, doesn't necessarily need to max at 10). We don't know if PB will bring MW30, it seems likely, but the idea sends shivers thru my wallet. What kind of pricetag would MW30 at 50% chance and only sometimes found after defeating the pink God be if MW20 is ~1.5b at a 70% chance? We can only speculate... Until then, HW10~ could be a great loot and additional min/max skill Here is some additional sauce for HW and this suggestion: Besides being a new and energizing drop and buff for people that want to be extra geared for bossing, Hero's Will, IMO, could still be a bit improved: Vanilla HW being able to will out of any abnormal condition would be really nice, stun, slow, weakness, blind, potion lock, etc. Sometimes, especially for shads, mages, ppl that need hb or other chars that are in danger if they are dispelled, or if you simply don't have ACP (ACP should cost a lot more mesos IMO, I am unashamed to suggest this), would find this to be very helpful, and it doesn't take away from will's primary use, it just gives it more utility. Vanilla HW could possibly also begin the sed resist stats, where HW10 would provide you with the most resistance, but no additional perks to CD or MP But speaking of that, it also could. A shorter HW CD, and possibly lower MP cost from higher level will, locked behind a rare and expensive SB, could be very desirable to some Being able to use HW while in darksight? Small resistance to all abnormal stats? Useful in some way for future boss afflictions, needing a higher level of will to cure them? (Such as potion lock, total darkness, an undispellable zombie or a dangerous % based venom status that can't be cured and will eventually kill you over time (like toxic in Pokemon. equally dangerous for washed or dirty chars alike), etc Or 6+ levels in will has a higher CD and mp cost in a personal choice trade off for your particular character and HW10s possible benefits above 5 Desirable to archers/sairs, who have no inherent defensive/avoid skills (who need to wash), as well as very proactive bishops, and of course mules (yes I suggested something helpful to mules) The RNG of it (sed missing you) provides a more fun engagement in bossing, IMO Finally, as suggested in this thread, the possiblity of seduce being a more equal opportunity threat to all despite your HP/avoid, like 1/1 is, makes sed missing you especially desirable I'd estimate this SB starting at about the average price of a ws/cs, and hovering around there, with it possibly going up quite a bit higher depending on the meta HW above level 5 (6+), will alert you if a DR is about to be cast/being cast at a chance. Level 10 will proc alerts 100% of the time (something like a exclamation mark and screen shake, player side, within 1 second before DR is cast, or a chatlog alert when the animation starts). Often bosses that cast this have easy to miss or ignore cues and can be lost in attack animations, damage digits, or lag. Warning will cost MP. Just a fun extra perk idea A fun and very simple, very easy to dev concept, that adds lots of possible dimensions to bossing. We can assume Von Leon won't be dropping his weapons, seeing as how they are superficial NX, and the end game gear market is already super locked in, and also awaiting a market crash from PB and it's timeless gear someday (I'm guessing VL will introduce the shoulder pad eq finally. crystal ball says 2 attack, 250 HP, with HP scrolls available somewhere, probably totem exchange). This SB and idea could breathe a bit of life into end game gameplay, market, and bossing.
sounds like a really fun suggestion, and its inconsistency due to RNG will mean the threat of mass seduce would still be very much real. Its just another path of min maxing for the highest levels of play. Would be cool if it had some visual effect when the rng triggers (can steal some already existing animation for it)
I was thinking if it mixed the HW cast animation, the power guard sarcophagus/stone maiden, but reskinned to be golden like 4th job skills (or iron will, or iron body), or maybe a MISS/RESIST but also colored gold instead of purple edit: many edits, extra suggestions have been added to the OP, including this: HW above level 5 (6+), will alert you if a DR is about to be cast/being cast at a chance. Level 10 will proc alerts 100% of the time (something like a exclamation mark and screen shake, player side, within 1 second before DR is cast, or a chatlog alert when the animation starts). Often bosses that cast this have easy to miss or ignore cues and can be lost in attack animations, damage digits, or lag. Warning will cost MP. Just a fun extra perk idea
char, im kinda ok with that, true or not. there's plenty of other content. pb will possibly bust the economy up purdy bad, and never seemed like a very fun fight
*conceptual bomp* I still believe in these super simple ideas to breathe life into end game markets, min/maxing, and they give some more depth and engagement and the rng rush for active users/parties. it's also is just building on pre-existing skills to deepen the game without it being radically different, concepts like that can go a long way to enrich a game conundrum such as royals, who can only extract so much vanilla content before reconsidering recipes. HW10 could also contain help or countermeasures for future content as well as the existing ideas here, such as being able to resist, chance to miss, ignore, or warn against future boss features like von leon, PB, grampa balrog. or more current existing things, such as HW5+ resisting 1/1s, taking them from 1/1 to 10/10, 20/20, 50/50, at a 5% chance each level. example: [HW10: 20% chance for 1/1 to be 50/50, 9% chance to ignore Seduce for -99 MP, 100% chance to warn you when damage Reflect is being cast for -66 mp. HW can also cure any ailment +Sed, but has a CD (as mentioned above, cd time could possibly go down slightly with higher HW, but cost much more to cast, so you have to decide your style] yes its 5 extra SP, and an upgraded, new sb, but i think its a great existing platform with lots of fun longevity potential that still feels right within the context of the game, and it would be fun if von leon or another boss before pb, but not ht, dropped it. as for MW30... pretending for a moment it is being considered to be added to the game, it should probably have a cooldown, and cost to cast. CD to be determined, maybe 5/10 minutes, or even longer such as echo's cd, costs your max mp, and 10~100 magic rocks (randomized consumption is a good idea too), or some other consumables. reverse/timeless gear with mw30 will significantly crash other existing markets in the game by solo artists simply being able to accomplish more, faster (faster ht/auf runs tanking prices) and finally another concept is lvl 200 chars can choose between echo, OR, mw30 if you pass the sb, but not both on the same char, so at least two lvl 200s in your pocket would be needed to optimize. ok and since i brought them up, this is serious feedback for the timeless weapons, quoted from the appropriate thread i left it in. i know seems all over the place but the ether of "final end game" hasn't materialized yet, and all of these suggestions are in progressive fairness towards whatever may come:
theres lots of topics swirled in this thread. theyre all closely related and its hard to not talk about them, especially because as i said, they are still gestating in the ether of the ultimate endgame: pink bean (and all of its implications: the battle, the requirements, the quests, the difficulty, the curveballs, the rewards) von leon (see above) timeless/reverse gear (and all of their implications, requirements, stats, level, bonuses, if any, and their economic ripple) maple warrior 30 (if/how it will strike the economy as well as power-up the meta, should it have a CD like echo, etc) these are big, lofty topics of discussion because they will ultimately seal the end game up, and they are still under wraps and development. I've spent a lot of time thinking about them, and preemptively giving feedback here and there because i can see down the road and try to anticipate issues before we make decisions. the reason they're mingled into this thread is because i think a 70% skillbook for an upgraded HW is staring the meta right in the face and serves a perfect vehicle for limitless future content, as well as existing content, and because of that, serves as a stepping stone, or advantage (or both) for future end game content such as von leon or PB. but on just the topic of "HW10", I've given lots of conceptual feedback here, because it could be very open ended, depending on what changes are ahead. and while i think HW10 being more optional than necessary is the better option for everyone (less gatekeeping, less required spending/gambling, play as you wish), it perhaps being necessary very late is also a good thing for the economy, and an extra individual quest of preparedness to face VL/PB/+more (plus current bosses for extra min/max benefits). either which way, it has ripe potential to enrich end game content, market, and fun in bossing. im going to try and make these ideas more black and white and fully fledge them to make them seem more realistic to more seriously consider it, as i know that @Kenny is actually considering this possible skill extension now. first though, how would this SB be acquired? i think because of the way auf is ran, auf is not a great candidate to drop it. the auf helm and helm scrolls, the scroll scraps, already make it an obsessively farmed boss (especially solo) if HW10 also dropped there, it would be too big of a boost to the small/solo player's already huge wallets, and have less of an economic impact. i think right now VL has the best fit and prospects to drop HW10 (as well as some shoulderpads with HP/MP, tokens, totems, and items to build reverse/timeless gear, but anyway): he's before PB, and he requires full, active parties to even get to, and i think this requirement alone is the perfect set up for HW10 as a drop there. invested, active individuals working together. or, a much less ran, but difficult bosses such as toad, or The Boss (the boss being my choice between the two since its very rarely ran compared to toad and drops almost nothing good. dunas2 is also a pretty good option considering nothing wild drops from her, but she's also not severely difficult. also grampa balrog, if we ever see him one day (i pray ) also I'd be fine with the HW10 SB being 50% rate instead of 70%, like the second SB rate usually is (or 60, etc), just to heighten the impact of it's late game effects, and give it staying power in the economy. what Hero's Will 10 can offer first ill do a quick bullet run down of the additional perks it could provide or expand on, and then flesh out the major concepts as examples, level by level, to visualize them. if anyone has HW10 suggestions/expansions, I'd also love to hear them. as brought up by Pablo (@GunzGaming), five extra SP is the max SP they could crunch in their paladin build. this is important to keep in mind, as @Kenny is considering HW20, a much bigger additional investment. to that i say, HW is already a fairly difficult to acquire skill in general (mini-pianu$, karta quest, eurek/griffey hunting) and 5 sp is two full levels. 10 is 4 full levels worth of 4th job SP (10/12 SP). because of its requirements, late SP investment, and possibility of it dropping from later, more difficult bosses, i think HW10 is more than enough to cap it at (but this is a separate discussion from this particular post--but be my guest and talk aboit it). lets run down what it could do now: lvl6-10 could offer less CD to cast HW, but more MP cost lvl6-10 could offer higher CD but NO MP (at 10, max) to cast HW 6-10 could provide a passive chance to resist/ignore/miss seduce (this is a refreshing RNG that would make sed rounds exciting if it procs. i think 9-10% at max would be great ability to will out of new/future statuses such as: potion lock/skill-lock/zombie/blackout/reverse control/mana-poison/etc 6-10 provides a passive, small resist chance to common statuses (~9% at max?) 6-10 will passively immediately alert you when Damage Reflect is cast at a %, up to 100% at max. an alert on screen, in chatlog, or an exclamation mark above your char that will always appear on top of all other animations, as well as a sfx 6+ can let thieves Will out of seduce while in darksight. passive bonus 6+ can cure any normal status condition as well as sed/etc. a nice utility for more casual situations 6-10 provides some passive 1/1 attack resistance. (example HW6 will leave you at 10/10 instead of 1/1, HW10 would leave you with 50/50) you can imagine what most of these suggestions would look like on the skill screen, but I'll flesh some out to make them seem more realistic and viable. [example: on the suggestions of HW10 offering higher cd but no mp cost, and sed resist (feel free to play with these suggestions / numbers):] hero's will 5: Cures you from being Seduced. The cooldown decreases as the skill level increases. Level 5: MP Cost: 30, Cooldown: 360 sec hero's will 6: Cures you from being Seduced. The cooldown now increases as the skill level increases, but MP cost lowers. A passive chance to entirely resist seduce now applies. Level 6: MP Cost: 25, Cooldown: 375 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 2% Level 7: MP Cost: 20, Cooldown: 390 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 4% Level 8: MP Cost: 15, Cooldown: 405 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 6% Level 9: MP Cost: 8, Cooldown: 430 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 8% Level 10: MP Cost: 0, Cooldown: 445 sec. Chance to resist seduce: 9% etc~ plug in any new status cures/resist, passives, values, and suddenly you have a very late game refreshing meta skill that enlivens some parts of the game, and new ones, rewards those who get it, but doesn't necessarily require it, especially on some classes. while other classes, such as bishop or ranged characters, may want it. that's why the new status cure is a bit of a slippery slope (as it would eventually be a requirement), but, i still think this a great built-in skill that can still add progression to the game, even this far out in the future, which is a really, really good thing. adding any dimension to this old 2D game, especially end game, would be quite effervescent imho~ obviously these new effects would only be packed into the new 6+ levels.
Moving to archived, since there is a more recent thread: Removing Mana Cost for Hero's Will This thread is already linked in the above thread, so people will still be able to find this! If you disagree, feel free to pm.
