I want to remind everybody that this post is meant to shed some light, to show that staff are human beings and can make mistakes. If I get banned, so be it. Let me tell you the tale of two players, Jimmy and Timmy. Jimmy decides to sell his 18wa cape. Jimmy sells it for a fair price and receives a 16wa cape, and 10b. However, 19 months later, this trade gets him banned. The admin says "Why have you received 10b from a known Rwt'er", framing the question as if some Rwt'er just gave him 10b. The reality however is much different as we know Jimmy downgraded his cape. The admin tells him a single date, and provides no further info. The trade log clearly shows a trade took place for 10b and a 16wa cape in exchange for a 18wa cape, so why is this player banned? Well, it doesn't matter because luckily Jimmy took a screenshot 19 months ago! He uploads his picture and gets unbanned. The screenshot clearly showing a trade of equal value taking place, the same trade that the admin was viewing. https://royals.ms/forum/threads/ban-appeal.205410/#post-1219274 Timmy on the other hand, has created his account 6 years ago and has many many accounts. The admin tells him "Why have you received 1b from a known Rwt'er", framing the question as if some Rwt'er just gave him 1b. The admin gives him a date but Timmy doesn't have a screenshot, therefore, Timmy remains permanently banned. https://royals.ms/forum/threads/banned.205390/#post-1218274 Let me ask you, if the mistake that plagued Jimmy exists, why can't it exist for Timmy? Would a 6 year high lvl account throw everything away for 1b? Or is the logical conclusion that the admins have made another mistake and are omitting facts? I'm not saying that Timmy is not guilty but I am saying at what point does this become a problem. From Jimmy's experience you are clearly just banning anyone who has ever traded a Rwt'er for a specific amount, even if it was justified. The influx of bans recently supports this. Like I said, staff aren't excused from making mistakes but this is pure incompetence. The logs clearly show the trade, the facts are being ignored. If the issue is a lack of logs, fine let's address that but I highly doubt staff aren't tracking equipment worth over 10b. I also understand we are understaffed, but this is ridiculous. I wasn't going to make this post however the initial backlash from the community really disappointed me. Some of these people are ex-staff and very vocal members of the community, people who would defend the staff with their very last breath. Some of the people in the community look to the staff as Gods, they take their word as gospel. If you dare try to bring up an issue they try to discredit you. I brought up a real issue and I get thrown under the bus and laughed at. In my opinion, the text in red is a borderline threat. "I'm gonna have the admins look into your account to permanently ban you if you don't stop". Pretty disgusting showing of the community, kind of reminds me of a politician, or a greasy lawyer. Hope you enjoyed story time with, Aqwrd!
You do know the Admins have access to view those types of things, right? If anything that case does prove that the Admins actually take the time to look into claims made by players in their Ban Appeals to verify them. They probably want to see if your story holds up to what the logs show, hence why the same question was asked, and that's why you can see two different answers from two different Ban Appeals. It’s also why almost every Ban Appeal starts with “Can you please list all of your IGNs?” We already have all of the characters listed, we just want to make sure everything is correct. Then you have players who adamantly deny it wasn’t them, when our logs tell us otherwise... (prime example: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/progress-on-my-second-ban-check.205165/ ) but that's a whole different story entirely. This isn’t really anything new in terms of making sure we have the correct information available to us (GMs) so we can help speed up the appeal process by a bit. It's almost as if the story matched the evidence the Admins had from the logs in one appeal-- but it didn't add up in the other. Shocking. In the example you've provided, they didn't get unbanned because they provided a screenshot; they most likely got unbanned because they didn't lie and actually told the truth and the evidence matched when the Admins went back to doublecheck the logs-- hence the unban.
When I was a new player, I felt that people got wrongfully banned for RWT all the time. But as I played more and gained more knowledge about the server, I don’t really feel that way anymore. I’m also not affiliated with staff nor am I really good friends with any current GMs. When they refer to a known RWT character, it’s usually literally some mule that is probably a botting character that has a shit ton of mesos on it. It’s not a ‘player’ that happened to RWT. It’s a seller. the reality is, a ton of ppl do it, and maybe people you know, and that may be hard to believe but it’s the truth
When you're dealing with a very big incident like this one was, you have to treat it as an investigation across the entire board. People are very quick to relate the ban appeals to some sort of prison, but in reality it's more of one of those questioning rooms the police have to interview anyone related to the case so they can verify their stories. You've said so yourself: You didn't read what I said at all if you're still saying this: so I have nothing else to add, sorry.
Well I don’t really know what to tell you man. You are not seeing the evidence/logs staff is seeing so I can’t really blame you. There are other factors weighing in when making a decision and Tim is been doing this for years. No staff is trying to “bait” and ban a player because it is best of staff’s interest to retain the player! Or you better call Saul!
Not sure how Aqwrd read this as a thread of me being able to force the Admins to investigate accounts or even permanently ban others So I would clarify what those text actually means Aqwrd claims the Staff did not investigate properly, which I have responded with his ban is related to the issue he's questioning the cause of his RWT joke The joke that made Staff have to investigate accounts, even if it was a joke Aqwrd claims the Staff does not do proper investigations, yes, I not gonna bullshit and say Staff doesn't do any mistakes and is perfectly right What I am addressing is Aqwrd's choice of RWT joke that will eat into Staff's time into the RWT-related investigations I have no idea how Aqwrd can read this as I have the power to launch investigations on other people or even permanently ban them TL; DR: please don't make RWT jokes and distract the Staff from actual RWT investigations
I made that last response without thinking and I deleted it about a minute after it was up, sorry. You practically admitted that Jimmy's ban was intentional, which leads me to believe that either staff is blindly banning anyone who trades with a Rwt'er OR they are banning anyone who makes even a fair trade with a Rwt'er. You are creating ban appeals which should never exist in the first place and then complaining you have too much work on your hands, that is ridiculous and stupid as fuck. You shouldn't be able to ban someone before fully checking the logs, or ban someone after you've checked the logs and see a fair trade. Finally, what if Staff are omitting evidence in Timmy's case like they did with Jimmy, what if he also made a fair trade of 2 ws for the Rwt'ers 1b but has no evidence. Are you telling me that Timmy would be unbanned in the future? Just seems like unnecessary work and creates paranoia in the community about who they trade.
The evidence showed you that Jimmy made a fair trade, you then banned him and accused him of rwt. Saul would have a field day with this.
Maybe when brought up with issues you address the issues instead of misdirecting and trying to slander and intimidate. Would expect more from ex-staff.
Hi, personally I think this is where you are wrong: Atleast from what I know, logs are not perfect (means they could not show the full picture of the trade possibly) and it's not that easy. Based on what I've seen so far I think false RWT bans are super rare - and this is just a combination of: 1) Seller both selling B coins in mass and using B coins for legit trades 2) Logs being imperfect This can understandably lead to some false bans, that with the right evidence can also be reverted. I don't know about you - but I don't need to SS everything to remember my major B coins trades and I can make an educated guess what I sold for them. That's atleast my theory, I can't say this is 100% what happened. I'm usualy not trying to defend staff and it would be an understatement to say I have bad history with most of them, but in this case I don't fault them at all and I think they're seriously doing a good job dealing with those. Nothing but appreciation for them for the past few days for speedy responses and unbanning quick when it needs to be done.
You are a very wealthy player who I assume makes lots of big trades, in the case of Jimmy it was 19 months ago, quite a long time. Also, assuming good logs, they omitted that the Rwt'er traded a cape as well. Doesn't seem very fair to the accused.
I'd like to add, since I forgot about this initially. This whole back and forth is disgusting and doesn't support your motives of player retention. If it was a fair trade, how is this not harassment? No mention of who he traded with, what he might've been smegaing, what items were involved, nothing. Who the fuck cares if he remembers or doesn't, what does that prove? Someone else was on the account? Was it a fair trade or not? Accusing people who make fair trades of participating in Rwt, it clearly hurts the players and its evident since Timmy got fed up with the appeal and gave up, if Jimmy didn't have that screenshot I bet he would've been pissed as well. Your best interest is to retain players? Give me a break. Still waiting for the benefit of it all. "This isn’t really anything new in terms of making sure we have the correct information available to us (GMs) so we can help speed up the appeal process by a bit." Yet you are creating appeals that shouldn't exist. I'd bet a lot of mesos that Timmy is falsely banned.
I can tell you're mad. Is it very constructive to call the staff's process "stupid as fuck", though? Ban for RWT is guilty until proven innocent. Every experienced player here knows to keep SS of their significant trades because of this. Personally, I think staff can be very heavy-handed with some bans, BUT: this is their bloody server, and these are their rules, and (for the most part) those rules are clearly laid out, and adhered to uniformly for all players. Exceptions are not made even for very senior/famous players. You agree to these rules when you play here. You may not like them, and that's your right; but you agree to them as long as you are playing here. You can always not play on Royals if you find the rules or their enforcement so objectionable. I think we can all agree that the process can be improved, and staff are always working to improve that. I don't think calling them stupid is helpful in any way. This isn't me being a "politician" or "lining up to support staff", I've been critical of many of them. It's that your actions and behaviour and arguments in this case are flawed. It's not a conspiracy; we're reacting to you. As for your signature: RWT is a huge problem. Perfect weapons don't take RWTers years to make! They have server farms of bots, and so many stacks of B coins/WS sitting around on mules, they can make perfect weapons on the spot. As Viv said above, it's very commonplace, and you will be constantly shocked by the number of people you play with who will eventually be banned for RWT (with proof, not even the "borderline" unproveable cases). If you want to understand just how pervasive it is, consider the "real" price of crafting a perfect weapon. Give or take, it's item cost + 7 * 10 WS * 10% scroll cost (basically negligible). So even the cheapest item like a perfect Concerto should be an minimum around 35B. Okay, sure, on a cheap item you could argue maybe they hit 2 or even 3 30% to bring that down to 25B. But perfect Concerto goes routinely for 18-19B. Even a perfect sky ski, revolver, DSC etc. whose item cost are several B will still sell for under/around 30B. This means that "real" players aren't crafting perfect weapons in most cases. No one would sell an item it cost them 35B to make for 20-24B. I don't know what the numbers are, but clearly a very large portion of perfect weapons on this server are RWT originated--even if it was later sold and traded legitimately, which really muddies the waters from a logs perspective. You're allowed to be mad, but slinging mud at all staff and now the community at large is probably not going to make you a lot of friends or produce useful results.
I'm not sure if you skimmed or not but banning people who rwt is not the concern of this post. Neither is my signature. Where did I disrespect the community? If the community see's this as an act of disrespect towards them they're wrong, I'm doing this for the players. I'm passionate about this server yes, but hearing about staff ban people who have clearly made fair trades gets me upset. Now 1b is the threshold to take screenshots, because I assumed it was much higher. One simple screenshot shouldn't exonerate you in this case, this is a 9 year old server, they have the logs that show them what took place. I have yet to hear a reason for it, nor do I deserve one, but I will make this thread to spread awareness. Edit: Also you state that it muddies the logs. The staff gave the exact date and the exact meso amount. They are looking right at the log. They see that its an equal trade. I'm not talking about them chasing down the origins of the item.
Kinda ironic of you to say "misdirect" when you are misdirecting the Staff from actual investigations due to your little joke, and proceed to accuse me falsely of trying to get you banned when I pointed that out There's nothing I can do if you still gonna use my ex-Staff status to attack me with false accusations Good luck
