Create official translations of Game Terms & Conditions

Discussion in 'Closed' started by Seyu, Jun 7, 2022.

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Should there be official translations of the T&C?

  1. Yes

    18 vote(s)
    81.8%
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. Depends (explanation in comments)

    2 vote(s)
    9.1%
  1. Seyu
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    Seyu Donator

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    Reading ban appeals by players who are obviously non-English speakers always makes me sad. Usually they break some of the less obvious rules like account sharing or vote abuse and get permanently banned.

    I understand why the staff cannot be lenient on non-English speakers breaking the rules, since it's been stated multiple times that ignorance is not an excuse for breaking rules. I agree this is a necessary stance to take in order to prevent intentional rule-breakers from feigning incompetency in English to receive lighter sentences.

    But I think one way to help these non-English players would be to provide an official translation of the Game Terms & Conditions. I observe that it has already been done in an unofficial capacity in Spanish and Chinese, but I think that this system could be improved. These translations are found in the subforums in the Other Languages section, which are not very active sections of the forums.

    I would like to suggest that translations of the T&C be added/linked to at the top of the current T&C thread, and in any other places where new players normally see the T&C.

    The goal is for non-English speakers to be equally exposed to the T&C of the game as actual English speakers, instead of needing to rely solely on Google Translate which is not only less convenient but may give bad or inaccurate translations of the rules. The translations should also be easily accessible, and not require the player to navigate through a mostly English forum into the language-specific sub-forum to read the T&C.

    Benefits:
    1) Fewer rule-breakers (hopefully), which lightens the load on GMs in the long run.
    2) More long-term players, leading to higher donation revenue for the server
    3) Increased diversity of the player base.


    How to get the translations done? That's the harder part, but I can think of a few ways. The budget way is to get volunteers from the community to help translate, and have it verified by a member of staff or a reputable community member that speaks that language. The better way would be to hire professional translators off Fiverr or other freelance sites, though it would cost real money.

    After a quick browse through Fiverr, I estimate the upper bound of the cost of translation to be about $3 USD per 100 English words. The T&C is currently 4500 words, which is $135 per translation, which I admit is quite high.

    To reduce cost, I suggest that the T&C could be shortened for the sake of cheaper translation. The Chinese translation on the forums already takes this approach with a short TLDR version at the top, which I'd argue is the most important part, rather than the nitty-gritty hard-to-translate lawyer speak that is most of the current T&C. I think the current wording could easily be shortened to about 500 English words that adequately cover the gist of the T&C, or at least enough to prevent a large proportion of accidental rule-breakers. So each translation of the 500-word version would cost about $15 USD, which I think is acceptable.

    There are 12 languages currently listed in the forums, so making a translation for each of those would cost about $180 USD, which I don't think is that huge a cost. I alone have donated at least 1/3 of that amount to the server already, so I'm reasonably confident that it's within the budget of the server to commission these translations. In addition, this is likely to be a one-off cost, assuming the T&C remain mostly static in the future.

    I'm aware the staff have lots on their plate already, and there are many other important features that are in the pipeline. But helping non-English speakers is something that I care about a lot, so even if it's not a high priority task, I think it's worth a mention here at least.

    What do you think?
     
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  2. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    It won't be a one-time cost

    Prior to my updating, the Chinese version of the T&C was outdated for like 3 or 4 years
    There will be changes to it from time to time, and the corrections would need to be made to all 12 languages at the same time else they won't be official T&C anymore

    I don't think hiring 3rd party translators would be suitable since the translator would need the game context before proceeding with it
    And the translated T&C would still need approval from Staff members to ensure it is translated correctly
     
  3. Seyu
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    Could you share a bit more about your experience updating the Chinese T&C? Which sections changed significantly enough to warrant a re-translation? In particular, did the TLDR version require any changes?

    I'm not in favour of translating the entire 4500 word document as I have no doubt those change regularly. Rather I would support maintaining the short TLDR version that reflects the spirit of the rules, even if not the precise wording. My guess is that it shouldn't change too much over the years, though I'm open to correction.
     
  4. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    Regarding the TLDR pack, it's a general explanation of what not to do (without any details)
    Even if that TLDR pack is translated to 12 languages, it cannot be considered an official translation of the Terms and Conditions due to the lack of details

    Will use this post (change log) to explain the correction made to the Chinese T&C at the time
    https://royals.ms/forum/threads/遊戲條款與細則.34525/page-2#post-1111465

    >>>
    As the [Terms and Conditions] have been updated recently, I have adjusted the <Game Usage and Restriction> content

    Changed content:
    - [Moderate Infraction] first punishment [7 days] > [14 days]
    - [Minor Infraction] third punishment or higher [Permanent] > [90 days]
    - [Moderate Infraction] added a new clause of [Scamming]
    - [Minor Infraction] have adjusted the clause of [Objectionable Behavior]
    >>>

    As per above, the changes are quite huge in terms of adjustments to the banned duration, as well as the situation to be considered bannable
     
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  5. Seyu
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    I think you raise a good point about the translation needing to be very precise in order to be considered an official translation.

    What if the approach is changed slightly? Ultimately my intention is to let non-English-speaking players understand what behavior may be objectionable, in particular the less obvious infractions such as account sharing and vote abuse. What if the English version of the T&C remains as the sole official set of rules, but an unofficial TLDR in different languages is provided in convenient places as a rough guideline of what is and isn't acceptable, even if the details are excluded from the translated TLDR summaries.

    This way the non-English-speakers at least have an accessible way of knowing approximately what is acceptable and not acceptable behavior on this server. If they have further questions about the T&C, they can still be directed to ask other players or perhaps staff for clarification or more precise translation of the official English rules if necessary, but at least there will be no excuse for them to be ignorant of the basic things like account sharing and vote abuse being bannable offences. Do you think this is a more realistic approach, or are there still remaining concerns?
     
  6. Dave Deviluke
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    Personally I feel it's fine for the players to create a TLDR packs of the T&C, as long as it isn't misleading
    Note: not sure about Staff stance on this, will leave the endorsement of TLDR packs to them

    I don't have much concerns for the TLDR packs in different languages since it should be relatively easy, just a matter of maintaining it (if changes are needed)
     
  7. Dave Deviluke
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    Also putting my concern about vote abuse
    In terms of newbie mistakes such as vote abuse, I noticed some players (regardless of whether English speakers) misunderstood what is considered "vote abuse"

    As per the rules, a player can only vote for one account once per UTC day (need to apply whitelist if multiple players are in the same household)

    Common mistakes due to misunderstanding/assumption:
    - "I can vote on WiFi while my bro vote on mobile"
    - "We can vote as long as we have applied" (but have yet to be accepted or already rejected due to lack of info)
    - "It's fine to do so since the first ban is just 14 days, I just need to vote more and make the 14 days ban worth"
     
  8. Seyu
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    Strongly agree on the vote abuse comments. I think the TLDR pack should make a point to clarify that double voting in those situations are not allowed. I think that at least a few bans could have been avoided with better communication. That said, those of the 3rd kind that you mentioned that try to exploit the rules will probably break the rules no matter how clear the TLDR is, but I think we should still do what we can.
     
  9. Rielle
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    Rielle Game Balancer

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    Sorry to necro this:

    Currently it's hard to expect this out of any server or game for that matter. There's thousands of written languages to consider. Even if we go with the 10 most popular languages, at the end of the day it's expected for everyone to find a translation and ask for clarification themselves. We can't expect them to learn English, but we can expect them to at least know what they are signing up for. The rules are verbose for a reason and that is to be very clear on what players can and can't do. Trying to abbreviate it might just cause misunderstanding, which by then we've gone full circle.

    Players are more than welcome to inquire about the rules and many are more than happy to explain it in other terms for them.
     
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