don’t see why shadow stars need to be not dispellable especially when I save so much money on hp pots compared to when I’m in HT on a BM or chara with low avoid / no dmg reduction only ever time I’m being DP, auf (maybe v2), but even then I get DP way less than my other charas in auf so shadow star being dispellable is not burning a hole in my pocket… nl has way too many other advantages to justify ur proposed ss change
Thanks for your opinions on the proposal. I can see both arguments for it and against it. Makes for a good discussion. Curious though, what are NL's many advantages in your opinion @bibz ? Besides alchemist and "mobility".
A change doesn't need to be absolutely necessary in order to be made, it just needs to be an improvement over what we had previously. "I could live without it" is not a valid reason to oppose a change, because then you'd be saying no to almost everything. Making Shadow Stars undispellable would improve QoL for an extremely popular class without actually making them stronger. I think it's a great idea, especially because the counterargument against it is so weak.
Time spent casting Shadow Stars is time that could have been spent DPSing with TT. My fellow Maplers, please optimize your DPS mule gameplay.
Fully agree. Think it is a simple QoL improvement without changing the gameplay. Casting time is virtually 0 tbh so I don't think that is really an issue though.
as u can see many players here are being super sarcastic because players who have played many classes to 200 still default to NL because it has best qol and overall great dps, and like does it rly need a “buff” when other classes like MM are kinda shit? idk if I rly need to outline exactly all these great advantages when I already mentioned the avoid, lack of pot usage, makes it easy to duo attack / multi client, cheaper to wash, availability of equips, etc. seems kinda obvious the time being spent at on implementing change for a qol change for a class that already has great qol could be spent on classes that need it more
you could time dispel in HT , NLs also have a dps advantage in dunas V2 because of the dispel range making it impossible for melee's to keep all their buffs up. You win some you lose some. Coming from someone who has a NL myself.
NL is unplayable. Please buff Avenger damage so we can farm 700m/h at Crimson Guardians like Shadowers do
Personally, I think a lack of necessity is absolutely a valid reason to oppose a change and I would even go so far as to ague that it is the most valid reason. And I think this is especially important in a server with an explicit commitment to preserving the nostalgic experience of MapleStory. While I would agree with many others that this notion of a nostalgic experience has largely become somewhat of a sham, it is still a central identity of our community that should encourage us to exercise restraint in implementing unnecessary changes that may affect core gameplay--especially in light of all the minor suggestions that this section can occasionally be inundated with. I see new players asking for explanations of our server's accumulated skill changes and updates all the time, with no one able to answer them because we literally can't even keep track of them anymore. And if we're relying on extreme slippery slope arguments, saying any improvement is sufficient to implement a change would be equally invalid. Because then you'd be saying yes to almost everything. That being said, I don't know what Shadow Stars are but since NLs are objectively by far the weakest class I also agree that they absolutely should get some sort of buff. I was not paid to post this.
There are certain arguments that can be used to oppose nearly any change. These being: -developer time should be used on other things (autoban and stuff like that) -lack of necessity; the game is still playable without this change (duh, of course it is) -slippery slope (an actual logical fallacy; neither my argument nor yours falls under this) If these are the only arguments against an otherwise positive change, it indicates that it should probably be made, IMO. For the bad updates we've had in the past (Soul Arrow, Meso Guard, Snipe + Weapon Cancel), people hated them for reasons unrelated to what I've listed above. I don't see anything like that here. The one sentiment that comes close to being valid is the argument that Night Lords cannot be improved in any way because they are already a strong class. Well, I'm looking through the update history now and I see plenty of buffs to strong classes. Doom not requiring Magic Rocks to use? Holy Shield giving protection against stuns? Infinity duration increasing to 120 seconds? You could absolutely argue that none of those changes were necessary, but they did make gameplay more enjoyable, and that's the most important goal for any video game. Plus, Shadow Stars doesn't even improve DPS, so it's not like this change will make the class stronger. (The argument that dispelling Shadow Stars is a necessary balancing factor to keep NLs in check is dogshit and everyone knows it.) The most important thing is not who the update affects, but what the update actually does. I think the precedent for this change is similar to Super Transformation being made undispellable, and potion buffs being undispellable to begin with. If a buff is granted by consuming a resource other than MP, monsters should not be able to dispel it. AFAIK, Shadow Stars is the only dispellable buff that consumes a resource, so the fact that it can be dispelled is actually an anomaly. edit: there is another which is Shadow Partner, and it's also an NL skill. go figure.
Hmm I guess it's a pretty good idea then, dispel is kinda annoying with this skill, especially in things like some of the Neo Tokyo bosses who spam dispel all the time.
I think allowing dispel to hit Shadow Stars should stay. By that logic I would want Soul Arrows to not be touched and other people would follow suit with their own skills. ACA is special in that it has no meso sink cost but literal time. You have to brandish 5 times if I’m not mistaken to get back to your full stack which is very time consuming. That being said, I’d be more okay with Shadow Partner not getting dispelled. As SP has a much longer cast time than shadow stars, I believe time is the bigger issue rather than meso cost. I’ve seen NLs for fun burn thru 20 stacks of stars on purpose by holding shadow stars for like 15-25seconds, I believe it to be a very fast skill personally.
Alchemist nerf aready make nl using more star,star recharge expensive~ all buff timer(Apple,shadow partner,haste,booster,shadowstar less from 150% >125%. Shadow star being dispelled is how the game design(dispel that cant dispel what for the skill named dispel?same goes for avoidability) , but if Shadow Stars wont being cancelled by dispel,i would be happy even im not playing nl anymore.
